"Jesus died for everybody's sins"

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,789
445
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#41
What about the Canaanites? The people in the flood? Egypt in the OT, Edom? etc. Only the Jews had the atonement through the Temple and its means. Now that's a Limited Atonement............
The old testament saints were born again, the same way that the new testament saints are, and that is that God put his Holy Spirit within them in the new birth.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
3,789
445
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#42
Just the standard cop out.

The responsibility for man to choose between eternal life and eternal condemnation has gone on from Adam to this very day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
That must tell you something, and that is that one of us is interpreting the scriptures incorrectly, and I do not think it is me. Actually it has been going on ever sense Jesus preached it.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,507
4,636
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#43
Jesus died for the sins of the people who choose to follow Him, and believe in Him. He did not die for every random person, whether they choose to follow and believe in Him or not.
DBurrage. You -- and everyone else -- have just TWO options: (1) believe what God says in the Bible (the Word of God) or (2) believe what people say about what they believe.

So let's just focus on ONE verse -- John 3:17. Those are the recorded words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Now let's break this down, even though it is simple enough for a child to understand.

1. For God: this is God the Father

2. sent not: this was a divine decision, not an afterthought

3. His Son: this is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ

4. into the world: this is the world of sinful humanity, and the Bible says that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and there is none righteous, no not one.

5. to condemn the world: Jesus did not come as the Judge of the world at His first coming, but as the Savior of the world. However He will come as Judge at His second coming.

6. but that the world: this means the world of humanity -- every single human being -- the inhabitants of the world, the human race, all those who have descended from Adam. (If you have any doubt check the concordances and the lexicons).

7. through Him: this means through the perfect life, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, since only Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

8. might be saved: salvation is available for all mankind. But eternal life is given only to those who obey the Gospel -- repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.


Now if this is not sufficient to refute your false belief, then nothing will suffice. You will go on believing the lies of Satan and false teachers.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,052
2,652
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#44
I have a lot of questions to God, as to why he does, or does not do things, because his ways are higher than our ways, and his thoughts higher than our thoughts, so, I guess you will have to ask God.
Many of your questions have already been answered in God's Word and in our posts. No, Calvinism cannot be found in any book of the Bible. There is a reason for this.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,052
2,652
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#45
What about the Canaanites? The people in the flood? Egypt in the OT, Edom? etc. Only the Jews had the atonement through the Temple and its means. Now that's a Limited Atonement............
Now that's getting close to blasphemy.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 
May 20, 2020
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#46
Jesus may or may not have died for everyone's sins but he did die for everyone, although he didn't really 'die' in that worldly sense of the word he did do it for everyone i think
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
11,507
4,636
113
#47
Calvinism cannot be found in any book of the Bible.
Correct. Calvinism is purely an invention of men, who concocted their own version of the Gospel. And that is why no one will find it in the Bible. Verses and passages have to be deliberately distorted, twisted, and made to mean the opposite of what they say in order to justify Five Point Calvinism. And the Five Points are like dominoes. If one falls, they all fall down. And like Humpty Dumpty, they cannot be put together again.
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
14,890
2,754
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#48
Jesus may or may not have died for everyone's sins but he did die for everyone, although he didn't really 'die' in that worldly sense of the word he did do it for everyone i think

Yes, He did die in the worldly sense. He died and rose again.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,052
2,652
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#49
Yes, He did die in the worldly sense. He died and rose again.
Good point. None of our souls ever cease to exist, not even the soul of the unrepentent sinner, but the body does die. We need to make it clear what we mean when we say 'death'.(y)
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,248
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#50
I'm gonna go a little deep here and say that there are aspects of sin that cannot be understood by mankind. Sin is not something that man or Lucifer (before he became Satan) brought into existence.

I believe that when Jesus died, He took care of the sin problem in ways that we can't see or comprehend. Which is one reason why He said "It is finished!". So although not every person will accept His offer of salvation, that doesn't negate the fact that He died for everyone.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
30,823
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#51
Now that's getting close to blasphemy.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is
longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


2 Peter 3:9 :)
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,113
2,672
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#52
"Jesus died for everybody's sins".

This is what I hear often from Christians and non-Christians alike.

Surely it isn't true though.

Jesus said
"I am the way, the truth and the life".
Humanity turned away from God when we ignored God's commandments in the garden of Eden.
Jesus offers us a way to develop a relationship with God and to start following Him again.

Jesus died for the sins of the people who choose to follow Him, and believe in Him.
He did not die for every random person, whether they choose to follow and believe in Him or not.

Thoughts?
The Atonement of Jesus could indeed cover all the sins of every human being.. BUT... It is only effective upon the sins of those who believe Jesus and trust 100% that his atonement proves forgiveness of their sins..
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#53
Now that's getting close to blasphemy.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Notice Peter does not say what you think he does. God is not willing that any of us perish. Usward = us.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,052
2,652
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#54
Notice Peter does not say what you think he does. God is not willing that any of us perish. Usward = us.
Any=any and all=all. You are going to try and mutilate half of the verses in the NT, aren't you.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The condition is believing, not being part of some pre-selected masterclass. I think that by now you must see this clearly. Are you just amusing yourself by mutilating the Word of God? It is a dangerous game that you play.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#55
Any=any and all=all. You are going to try and mutilate half of the verses in the NT, aren't you.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The condition is believing, not being part of some pre-selected masterclass. I think that by now you must see this clearly. Are you just amusing yourself by mutilating the Word of God? It is a dangerous game that you play.
Here's where we differ. You read free will into the gospel making it law. You say whoever "Chooses to believe" can save themselves legalistically. The bible says "whoever believes has eternal life". It's a characteristic of the New Birth that identifies who God saved. See the difference?
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,052
2,652
113
#56
Here's where we differ. You read free will into the gospel making it law. You say whoever "Chooses to believe" can save themselves legalistically. The bible says "whoever believes has eternal life". It's a characteristic of the New Birth that identifies who God saved. See the difference?
Yes, I do see the difference. It is sharp and vivid. Someone does not understand what the word 'whosever' means. (or is just pretending to not know what it means... once more, I warn you; you are playing a dangerous game.)

For the benefit of true seekers who may be viewing this guys postings: Choosing to follow Jesus has nothing to do with 'legalism'.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#57
Yes, I do see the difference. It is sharp and vivid. Someone does not understand what the word 'whosever' means. (or is just pretending to not know what it means... once more, I warn you; you are playing a dangerous game.)

For the benefit of true seekers who may be viewing this guys postings: Choosing to follow Jesus has nothing to do with 'legalism'.
It IS legalism. If saved by grace, they want to follow him more than anything else in life because of their new nature.
 

CS1

Moderator
May 23, 2012
4,957
1,217
113
#58
"Jesus died for everybody's sins".

This is what I hear often from Christians and non-Christians alike.

Surely it isn't true though.

Jesus said
"I am the way, the truth and the life".
Humanity turned away from God when we ignored God's commandments in the garden of Eden.
Jesus offers us a way to develop a relationship with God and to start following Him again.

Jesus died for the sins of the people who choose to follow Him, and believe in Him.
He did not die for every random person, whether they choose to follow and believe in Him or not.

Thoughts?


The word of God says HE did. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us. Rom 5:8
John 3:16 says 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

God did for all but the receiving is conditional. We must repent, surrender, and receive. This salvation is for all yet not all will be saved :).
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
3,052
2,652
113
#59
It IS legalism. If saved by grace, they want to follow him more than anything else in life because of their new nature.
Choosing to follow Jesus has nothing to do with legalism. Choosing to follow Jesus has everything to do with being saved by grace. The loving grace and mercy of Jesus, freely available to whosoever will come to that fountain today. Come just as you are and completely surrender to Jesus today to have your sins washed away.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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#60
Choosing to follow Jesus has nothing to do with legalism. Choosing to follow Jesus has everything to do with being saved by grace. The loving grace and mercy of Jesus, freely available to whosoever will come to that fountain today. Come just as you are and completely surrender to Jesus today to have your sins washed away.
= the self-righteous save themselves through obedience (works).