Jesus is God.... why do some "christians" deny this?

trofimus · Jul 28, 2017

I actually do not understand what the KJV is saying. I think you do not understand it either. Which is the reason it should not be used anymore by anyone who is not scholar in middle-ages English.

So I will use NIV:

"You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new."
(Leviticus 26:10 NIV)

- ok, nothing relevant to my post

"He said to them, "Therefore every teacher of the law who has become a disciple in the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old."
(Matthew 13:52 NIV)

- ok, still nothing related to my post

"Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command but an old one, which you have had since the beginning. This old command is the message you have heard.
Yet I am writing you a new command; its truth is seen in him and in you, because the darkness is passing and the true light is already shining."
(1John 2:6-7 NIV)

- not sure what you think it says to my post

JaumeJ · Jul 28, 2017

If this has not already been posted read teh first chapter of the Apostle, John. He is not the only to declare Jesus to be God, Isaiah does also in 9:6...

Jesus Christ is God, or Yeshua is Elohanu.......

Also, please be advise, all who do not understand the KJV, do not read it. I read all of them, but KJKV is my favorite, mistranslations and all. They do not change the message.

Desertsrose · Jul 28, 2017

AKAP said:

Hi AKAP,

I see that you're new and wanted to say welcome to CC!

It just dawned on me reading your post that some might be doubters like Thomas.

So I could add that to the answer I gave to McGee's post.

And Thomas ate with Jesus, fellowshipped with Jesus night and day, was discipled by Jesus for over 3 years.

It took the resurrection for Thomas to see that Jesus is God. So that's a biggie right there........3 years of being with Jesus and he still didn't know yet!

Magenta · Jul 28, 2017

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

seed_time_harvest · Jul 28, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

That's what happens when some try to understand faith with human understanding,only able to understand things with fleshly human Intellect.

Enoch987 · Jul 28, 2017

Yeraza_Bats said:

John 1:14 the only Son who took on flesh to deal among us.
Luke 9:35 This is my chosen Son (God said at the Mt. of Transfiguration.
Hebrews 1:8-9 quoting Psalms 45:6-7). Jesus was anointed from his companions.
Now I ask you Trinitarians, who were Jesus' companions that He was chosen and anointed before creation?
If you say angels, then it's really not a choice. (Hmmm, God chooses his only Son or angels?)
1 Corinthians 5:19. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. (not Jesus was God reconciling).
In the old testament, God is Lord God of hosts. Jesus is Lord of hosts. (Isaiah 7-10, Jeremiah 50-51).
Paul continues this is the NT, God the Father and Jesus Christ the Lord (Paul never calls Jesus as God. The Granville-Sharp exemption that Trinitarians claim in NT Titus (God is our Savior, Jesus is our Savior) is disproven by the Titus 3 (God the Father and Jesus Christ the Lord.
Colossians 1, Jesus is the image of God.
The world created by God through Jesus. God is the designer. Jesus was the craftsman (Proverbs 8).
in John, "everything I (Jesus) have has been given to me by my Father."
Doubting Thomas "My Lord and My God." Earlier in John 20, Jesus told Mary Magdelene (I go to My Father and your Father, My God and your God.) I could be literal and equate calling another person God means that Jesus was created. I won't do that but Jesus was chosen and anointed to become the firstborn Son of God before the beginning of time and space. So it is correct to say that Jesus was God and with God from the beginning. Athanasius wrote eternally begotten into the Creeds. He meant this as a slam against Arius who argued for human begotten with no preexistence. Little did he know this phrase when explained as Father and firstborn Son disproves the Creed (Jesus was always God and unless you believe this Creed, you cannot be saved).

Nehemiah6 · Jul 28, 2017

Enoch987 said:

Well the answer is pretty obvious. The companions of the eternal Word before creation were God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Therefore GOD (Elohim) said this at the beginning: 26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

bluto · Jul 28, 2017

trofimus said:

Actually the axiom goes like this: "You interprete the Old Testament in light/view of the New Testament because the New Testament is the fullfillment of the Old Testament. So your right!

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

trofimus · Jul 28, 2017

"In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end."
Hebrews 1:10

(About Jesus)

trofimus · Jul 28, 2017

Enoch987 said:

Hebrews 1:9 is quoting psalm 45 (or 44 in the LXX numbering).

So when we want to know more, what is more natural than to look at the Psalm 45?

"I declare my works to the king." (verse 1)
"Thou art more beautiful than the sons of men." (verse 2)
"Myrrh, and stacte, and cassia are exhaled from thy garments, and out of the ivory palaces, with which kings’ daughters have gladdened thee for thine honour" (verse 8)
" Hear, O daughter, and see, and incline thine ear; forget also thy people, and thy father’s house. Because the king has desired thy beauty; for he is thy Lord." (verse 10)

-----

So, when we read the verse 7:

"Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee with the oil of gladness beyond thy fellows."

Who could the fellows be? Well, simply, other humanly kings, other kings of this world. He is above all of them.

bluto · Jul 28, 2017

AKAP said:

Oh please akap, I'm not a "mind reader" like you by you telling me what my motives are in that I'm "scheming." I always base my questions and answsers on what a person says. I don't try and "assume" what a person says. You did flat out say Jesus is not God Almighty" and since you made the statement you have to "prove" your statement.

But what do you do? You make excuses and make me the subject of your impotent post. Even in this post you said this you want to listen but your not listening. In fact, you have already made up your mind that your right and I'm wrong. The main problem you have is that you do not think things through not to mention that you really don't know your Bible like you think you do.

Look what you said in this post? "Yes, Jesus had just risen from the 'grave' and Thomas being very cautious, cried out, after seeing Jesus, and said 'my Lord and my God.' Thomas suddenly realized that Jesus did indeed rise from the dead and his Father did indeed raise him as he and others were told before. He became a strong believer in his Lord Jesus Christ."

First of all Jesus Christ said to the Jews at John 2:19, "Jesus answsered and said to them, "Destroy this temple and in three days I WILL RASIE IT UP." You also have Romans 8:11, "But if the Spirit (the Holy Spirit) of Him, (God the Father) who rasised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He/God the Father who rasised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit (the Holy Spirit) who indwells you."

Then you said, Thomas cried out that Jesus did raise from the dead." No, akap, look at the context. At vs24 Thomas did not believe that Jesus was rasied from the dead. Thomas was a "rational empircist." That means he wanted to see proof (vs25). So after eight days (vs26) Jesus appears to the disciples including Thomas. When Thomas sees Jesus Christ and Jesus offers His hands and His side to Thomas, what does Thomas conclude akap?

He gives and declares the highest form of worship there is by saying to Jesus Christ Himself, "The Lord of me and the God of me." John 20;28. And to support your "uninformed" opinion you conviently leave out John 20:28 and say, "He became a strong believer in Jesus Christ." I would say that is an understatement" because Thomas was now convinced that Jesus Christ was God. PS: You should know I am not going away just because you say so. There are others that read these post like lurkers who want to learn what you believe and why do you believe it. I suggest you read 1 Peter 3:15.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

BeyondET · Jul 28, 2017

Because they do not recognize or comprehend Him.

3€ The Word became Flesh

John 1: 1~2_14_17_3~4_9~10_5_11~13_16_18

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. The Word became flesh and He lived among us, we have seen His Glory, the Glory of the One and only Son, who came from the Father, full of Grace and Truth. For the law was given through Moses, Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.

All things were made through Him, without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was Life, and that Life, was the Light of all people. The True Light that enlightens everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world and the world was made through Him though the world did not recognize him. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend.

He came to His own and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become God’s children to those who believe in His name. Who are born not of natural descent or human decision, nor of the human will, but of God. From his fullness we all received grace upon grace. No one has seen God but the one and only Son, who is in the closest relationship with the Father, has made Him known.

OneFaith · Jul 28, 2017

NoNameMcgee said:

Maybe instead of showing them words in the scriptures stating that He is God just as much as the Father and Holy Spirit are, maybe you can show them in action, in the scriptures. Take them to Matthew 28:17, where some of His apostles bowed down to worship Jesus. Jesus did not correct them, because they were not wrong- Jesus is God.

But both Jesus and the angel in Revelation sharply corrected to "Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only!" Jesus didn't go around bragging, but when backed into a corner He told the truth "I AM the Son of the Living God." We are God's children by adoption, but in Jesus all the fullness of the Father dwells- that would include Deity (God DNA).

But no matter what you do, "He who hath not ears to hear will not hear, and he who hath not eyes to see will not see." No matter how clear it is, because they repress the truth and refuse to see it. But for some they just haven't seen it yet.

JaumeJ · Jul 28, 2017

No one who has reaqd both th Old and New Testaments can deny Jesus Christ is God, unless they simply do not understand what they are reading.

Jesus is our Salv ation.
Jesus is our King.
Jesus is, a myster, but He is our husband.
In the Old Testamen, God declares He is each of these.

Blain · Jul 28, 2017

Well we have to understand that not all do this with ill intent, we are all at different levels of faith and understanding for some we just know for others it may take years but we cannot assume that all who deny this are not saved. My main question to people who don't believe him to be God is if he is not God then why did he say to the paralyzed man your sins are forgiven? Only God can forgive sins

unobtrusive · Jul 28, 2017

JaumeJ said:

Right! Makes me think of this scripture. Note the capital "A" in Angel.

Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. (Exodus 23:20-22 KJV)

resurrection33 · Jul 28, 2017

NoNameMcgee said:

I agree that Jesus is God in flesh, but he also is called the Son of God in the Bible, so I can see why there is a difference of opinion.

Bogadile · Jul 28, 2017

ALL the Church fathers agreed Jesus is God, ALL the catholics and orthodox believe Jesus is God, ALL the protestants believe Jesus is God, including the reformers.

On the other hand we have some cults that started in the 1800s such as mormons, JWs, christadelphians and the rest of them.

If I was a betting man I would not bet my eternity on the latter, those seem like awfully bad odds.
I am not arguing in favor of majority rule in every single situation, but this is such a core issue, that I cannot see the Holy Spirit leading astray the entire Church for so many years on this. There has been many arguments in the history of the Church, Jesus' deity has not been one of them since the Arius controversy.

If you are stubborn and refuse to accept any authority outside of the Bible well let us dig into some Scriptures that people who deny the deity of Christ cannot deal with:

John 1:1-14

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Now who is the Word here? To me it is clear it is identified as God, who is with God in the beginning. This Word then becomes flesh, and this Word is later identified as being none other than our Lord Jesus Christ:

Revelation 19:13 "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."

Now we have established that the Word is Jesus, and is called God, therefore Jesus is God in the flesh, or another way to put it: the Word (who is God, identified as Jesus) became flesh and dwelt among us.

We also know that there are not two gods but one because to say there are two gods would contradict the creed of the Jewish faith that Jesus quoted and affirmed in

Mark 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:"

Now that we have established that monotheism is a requirement for one to be faithful to the Scriptures and Christianity, we can agree that the Word is not a different God, but rather that they are in unity.:

1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."

Too long did not read version: The trinity is true, Jesus is God, deal with it.

AKAP · Jul 28, 2017

bluto said:

You seem a confused man, and you really cannot help yourself. It is apparent that your knowledge of some scripture is lacking. You lay scripture over scripture and nullify some to squeeze out your own point. And because of it you can only try and ram your ideas down someone’s throat.

You are concerned that I may make you look bad and you are apparently worried that ‘lurkers’ will see you for what your Christian message entails.

Concerning verse Peter 3:15. I would tread very lightly if I were you when you attack another Christian with scripture such as this type, maybe out of pride. It has consequences.

So let me again for the maybe the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] time, answer your latest interpretation of new scripture posed that I’m supposed to just accept without question; where you override several scriptures that say God raised Jesus (1 Cor 6:14 for example). God’s spirit will also raise us up as well. I hope you still believe that God’s spirit raised Jesus from the dead?

One needs to understand that in John 2:19 Jesus is not actually saying he shall raise himself up (...I will raise it up) as you have suggested (A New Temple) and as per other scriptures that you apparently want to ignore. That makes no sense at all. And John 2:22 if you read, for more clarity, said ‘he WAS raised for the dead.’ It did not say he raised himself up from the dead. You have to understand the context again and the word usage and his previous history with the Pharisees.

Jesus was ultimately responsible for his resurrection, fair right. And so when God’s spirit raised him up, Jesus himself was responsible for it. And so he told the Unbelievers (Pharisees) that He would raise (another (new) temple). They did not understand of course. It is a local expression. Like saying the Pharisees killed Jesus and this is in scripture (Acts 5:30), although we know that the Romans actually killed him. The rulers had a significant part in the killing of Jesus though just as Jesus had a significant part in his own resurrection. I cannot make it any clearer for you. Some scripture requires more analysis.

I told you at the start when I realized you just wanted a ‘fight’ and if you wanted me to go down this rabbit hole of yours, you may regret it. And I promised I would answer any scripture you could fly as me where you try and force only your view on me. I believe I have debunked every one of your interpretations of scripture posed, thus far.

I’m confident in my faith and the word of God so why are you not showing the same, in peace and love? If I find I’m wrong I will admit it. This is the only way we can learn in the spirit as we are being led by it.

I’ll pray for you that you have peace in your heart. You can be nice you know and arrest this hostility. It is in your hands.

Have you ever read your messages that you have send to others and me.

In Christ, Always

PS: this is strike 3, so I will not be responding to your responses that you direct at me anymore. You are the most annoying person I've known in years....

MattforJesus · Jul 29, 2017

Jesus could speak as God,or as a man,while on earth.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Jesus did not rebuke Thomas when He called Him,Lord and God,for Thomas was acknowledging Jesus according to His diety.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

The man that called Jesus,good Master,was acknowledging Jesus according to His humanity,and Jesus gave glory to God,and said,I am doing good,because God is causing Me to do good.

Mat 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.
Mat 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

Mat 8:5 And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him,
Mat 8:6 And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented.
Mat 8:7 And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him.

Mat 14:28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.

Mat 20:30 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.
Mat 20:31 And the multitude rebuked them, because they should hold their peace: but they cried the more, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou Son of David.
Mat 20:32 And Jesus stood still, and called them, and said, What will ye that I shall do unto you?
Mat 20:33 They say unto him, Lord, that our eyes may be opened.
Mat 20:34 So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him.

Many people called Jesus,Lord,and Jesus did not rebuke them accepting them calling Him,Lord,which is the same as Jesus saying He is God,for Lord could only apply to God.If Jesus accepted being called Lord,it is the same as if He is saying He is God.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Lord is a title only given to God,for no human can be Lord.

Luk 7:13 And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not.

Luk 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?

Here it is attributing Jesus as God.

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Mat 21:3 And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Joh 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Joh 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

Jesus called Himself Lord,which can only be applied to God,which means Jesus is saying He is God from His own mouth.

And Jesus forgave sins which only God can forgive sins,and said before Abraham was,I am,and said He will not leave the saints comfortless,but come to them.

This is from the perspective of Jesus on earth that He did claim to be God,for He accepted being called Lord,and called Himself Lord.

And there are many scriptures that testify Jesus is God.God said He would come as the Savior,the Son shall be called the mighty God,He will have no beginning,He is God manifest in the flesh,He dwells in the light whom no man can approach,and no person has ever seen Jesus,and no person will ever see Jesus,according to His invisible Spirit,and He is the Almighty.

Jesus did claim to be God while on earth,when He called Himself Lord,which it a title that can only apply to God,and no human.

The Bible identifies Jesus as Lord to show that He is God in a visible manifestation on earth,and the ruler,and authority,of mankind,and when it refers to Jesus as Lord,it is the same as if it is referring to Jesus as God,in case some may say why does it not say God,but Lord,but to say Lord,is the same as to say God.

Jesus' lifestyle on earth testifes He is God,and it cannot be denied.

Jesus is God.... why do some "christians" deny this?

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