Jesus is God

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sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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#61
Earlier translations use the word (it) when describing the word (word) in John 1. When the word became flesh, that's when the Son of God came into being.

Luke 1:35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and God's power will rest upon you. For this reason the holy child will be called the Son of God.

For this reason or because of...
So we kinda skipped rite over this. You said the Son of God came into being when the Word became flesh. So according to this Jesus is a created "being". Is that what you are saying here?
 
Aug 19, 2014
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#62
Belief in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, should be the common denominator for all believers. After this the waters get muddy so we should never use something that is unclear as a basis for fellowship or identity.
This I too believe.
 

sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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#64
Before we go any further into our discussion I would like to say one thing. I do not use belief in a Trinity God as the basis for fellowship or to determine if one is a Christian or not. Understanding the Divine nature of God is a complicated subject and should not be used as a basis for fellowship or to determine if one is a Christian or not. I believe we need to use a common denominator to base fellowship on and that common denominator is found in Matthew 16:15-17.

Matthew 16:15-17 Jesus said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Belief in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God, should be the common denominator for all believers. Anything after, Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God, the waters get muddy so we should never use something that is unclear as a basis for fellowship or identity.
You are correct. This is only a discussion not meant to judge anyone. Judging is not our job
 
Aug 19, 2014
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#65
So we kinda skipped rite over this. You said the Son of God came into being when the Word became flesh. So according to this Jesus is a created "being". Is that what you are saying here?
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#66
Also in John 8:58 Jesus says of himself ".... I am!" No one is "I am" except God. So how and why did Jesus say this?
i can say,before my daughter i am

Jesus says before Abraham was, he was there,

it does not say hes The Great I Am does it.

just my take on it
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#67
So we kinda skipped rite over this. You said the Son of God came into being when the Word became flesh. So according to this Jesus is a created "being". Is that what you are saying here?
Jesus was created in the womb of Mary just like each one of us are. He is the beginning of God's new creation.

Revelation 3:14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.

Remember, there are two creations. The Genesis creation and the new creation which the Bible defines as the Kingdom of God.

In times past God did not speak through His Son. It wasn't until these last days that His Son came into existence.

Hebrews 1:1-2 Long ago God spoke many times and in many ways to our ancestors through the prophets. And now in these last days has spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.

When people read the above verse they say God created the Genesis account through Jesus because it says, "Through whom He made the words". That word, (world), is the word, (age), and it's referring to the age or world to come, not the Genesis creation. We know this because it's confirmed a couple of verses later.

Hebrews 2:5 God did not choose angels to be the rulers of the new world that was coming, which is what we have been talking about.

The age or world to come is the Kingdom of God. This is God's great promise and the new creation, which started with Jesus at His birth. This new creation is spoken of all throughout the Bible.

Matthew 12:32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 10:30 who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time—houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions—and in the age to come, eternal life.

Hebrews 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come.
 

sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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#69
If Jesus was only created then how can I trust in him? And how could he take away my sins when my sins are against God not him
 
Aug 19, 2014
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#70
Psalm 2

Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed, saying,

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
 
Aug 19, 2014
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#71
If Jesus was only created then how can I trust in him? And how could he take away my sins when my sins are against God not him

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#72
But is Jesus a "created being"?
Let me ask you something? Was Jesus a man anointed of God? Was Jesus a man who God approved of and Who God did many miracles through? Did this flesh and blood man exist as a flesh and blood man prior to His birth?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus.

Whatever term you want to use for how the flesh and blood man came into existence I will probably have no problem with because who can really define the miraculous work of God in human terms.

 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#73
Acts 20:28

" Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. "


This scriptures shows that Jesus and God are one. It says God purchased with His own blood. Who was sacrificed, it was Jesus Christ.
 

sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
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#74
Sorry I'll be back. Take car into the shop ugh
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#75
i can say,before my daughter i am

Jesus says before Abraham was, he was there,

it does not say hes The Great I Am does it.

just my take on it
The Jews always misunderstood what Jesus was saying. We take their misunderstanding and use it to build our doctrines when we should focus on what Jesus was really saying. Jesus didn't say He existed before Abraham, He said Abraham saw His day (by faith) and believed. The the Jews, who misunderstood Jesus, said, "You are not even 50 years old how can you say you saw Abraham?". Jesus then corrects them but we always miss that part and focus on the Jew's reply. Read it again more carefully.
 
Aug 19, 2014
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#76
Acts 20:28

" Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. "


This scriptures shows that Jesus and God are one. It says God purchased with His own blood. Who was sacrificed, it was Jesus Christ.
Jesus is his son. Your own son or daughter are of your own blood. They are a part of you.


  1. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his Own
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#78
Acts 20:28

" Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. "


This scriptures shows that Jesus and God are one. It says God purchased with His own blood. Who was sacrificed, it was Jesus Christ.
Sometimes translations are worded to fit a particular belief and can be misleading.

Acts 20:28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in your care. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he made his own through the blood of his Son.

Jesus is God's Son so you could say God used His own blood to save the world but we know the Father Himself is Spirit and has no blood.
 
Aug 19, 2014
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#80
Don't you hate the details of life that pull us away from fellowship? :(
I wish I had fellowship in my local area but alas not many believe as I do. Those that do not understand my beliefs tend to be angry or persecute. I pray that one day we all fellowship together with God and his Son.