Jesus is Jehovah? So Jehovah is Son in trinity?

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Jan 25, 2015
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He had a beginning, hence why he is called the "firstborn of creation".
o_O you can immediately pickup when someone is spending too much time with the Jehovah Witnesses. The next thing he will tell us is that Jesus was crucified with His hands above his head.....
 
Jun 4, 2019
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Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit
(Luke 23:46)
when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, saw how He died, he said,
"Surely this man was the Son of God!"
(Mark 15:39)
That is a mistranslation, he said, "Father, into your hands I commit my breath", and then he "breathed his last".
 
Jun 4, 2019
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He is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
(Colossians 1:18)

Jesus was not chronologically the first man to rise from the dead -- so why is He called firstborn from the dead?
Because he was the first among the dead the be resurrected into an immortal body.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Because he was the first among the dead the be resurrected into an immortal body.
Luke 9:29-31
And as He prayed, the fashion of His countenance was changed, and His garment was white and glistered. And beholde, two men talked with Him, which were Moses and Elias: Which appeared in glory, and tolde of His departing, which He shoulde accomplish at Hierusalem.
 
Jun 4, 2019
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Luke 9:29-31
And as He prayed, the fashion of His countenance was changed, and His garment was white and glistered. And beholde, two men talked with Him, which were Moses and Elias: Which appeared in glory, and tolde of His departing, which He shoulde accomplish at Hierusalem.
The transfiguration was a vision, like the visions of John who saw beasts and a dragon, hence,

And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.”
Matthew 17:9

The dead are currently asleep awaiting resurrection, and that is why the Messiah is the firstborn among the dead to be resurrected into an immortal body.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Mark 9:9-10
Now as they came down from the mountain, He commanded them that they should tell no one the things they had seen, till the Son of Man had risen from the dead. So they kept this word to themselves, questioning what the rising from the dead meant.
 
Jun 4, 2019
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Mark 9:9-10
Now as they came down from the mountain, He commanded them that they should tell no one the things they had seen, till the Son of Man had risen from the dead. So they kept this word to themselves, questioning what the rising from the dead meant.
Your recourse to rejecting what I told you is to find a mistranslated version of the verse? Fine, let us see what the original text truly, says,

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/17-9.htm

The Greek word used for the English word "vision" is "horama", which means "vision", which is the same word used in these other passages, to also mean "vision",

Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Master said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
Acts 9:10

“I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision, something like a great sheet descending, being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to me.
Acts 11:5

So again I say, the transfiguration was a VISION, not that Elijah and Moses had attained the resurrection from the dead into immortal bodies, when it is clear that the scriptures teach that the dead sleep, that the resurrection has not yet happened, and that the Messiah is the firstborn among the dead to be resurrected into an immortal body. Why are you people so stubborn to accepting the simple truth? In every way possible you deviate into error left and right, and oppose everything that is true, not wanting to believe the truth.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
25,022
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In every way possible you deviate into error left and right
To the contrar: i am looking forward with eyes fixed:

1 Timothy 3:16
God was manifest in the flesh
 
Jun 4, 2019
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To the contrary i am looking forward with eyes fixed:

1 Timothy 3:16
God was manifest in the flesh
No, you are in error. Which is why I pointed out your error regarding the transfiguration, which you have still not affirmed that you stand corrected.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,558
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The Messiah is the only begotten son of God because he was the only one brought into existence directly by the Father, whereas all other sons of God came through the Messiah.
Since you have told all of us here that God was completely alone and the Son did not exist before His incarnation as a man because as you just said, "he was the only one brought into existence directly by the Father" I have one question for you? Why is the Son identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and His own Father? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Jun 4, 2019
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Since you have told all of us here that God was completely alone and the Son did not exist before His incarnation as a man because as you just said, "he was the only one brought into existence directly by the Father" I have one question for you? Why is the Son identified or presented as the Agent of creation at John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:10 and Revelation 3:14 by the Apostles and His own Father? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Because God created the earth by his power, but created the world in wisdom. Read http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/ .
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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Because God created the earth by his power, but created the world in wisdom. Read http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/ .
That does not answer the question? In fact your answer does not even make any sense just like your website. You just said, "Because God created the earth by his power" and then you said "BUT" created the world in wisdom." What's the difference between creating the earth and the world? Is not the earth and the world the same thing?

And btw, Jesus is the wisdom of God which means Jesus Christ (as I have stated) existed eternally unless you can tell us all here when was it that God was not without His wisdom? You have not addressed or pointed out one thing wrong in any of my post to you, why? I posted about Revelation 3:14 where the word "Beginning" is the Greek word "arche" and we get our English word "architect" from that word which means Jesus Christ is the architect/orgin/designer of everything created.

The verse is "NOT" teaching that Jesus is a created being like you teach, the jw's teach and the unitarians teach. How about doing some research for a change instead portraying yourself as some great theologian that people are suppose to listen to because you think you have the truth or all the right answers. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 
Jun 4, 2019
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That does not answer the question? In fact your answer does not even make any sense just like your website. You just said, "Because God created the earth by his power" and then you said "BUT" created the world in wisdom." What's the difference between creating the earth and the world? Is not the earth and the world the same thing?

And btw, Jesus is the wisdom of God which means Jesus Christ (as I have stated) existed eternally unless you can tell us all here when was it that God was not without His wisdom? You have not addressed or pointed out one thing wrong in any of my post to you, why? I posted about Revelation 3:14 where the word "Beginning" is the Greek word "arche" and we get our English word "architect" from that word which means Jesus Christ is the architect/orgin/designer of everything created.

The verse is "NOT" teaching that Jesus is a created being like you teach, the jw's teach and the unitarians teach. How about doing some research for a change instead portraying yourself as some great theologian that people are suppose to listen to because you think you have the truth or all the right answers. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
There exists a distinction between the earth and the world in scripture. God the Father is the one who created the earth, by his power, but the Messiah created the world upon the earth, through commands, which began with "let there be light". There is a distinction between what God created, and what God created through the Messiah, which is why "God created the earth by his power, but he created the world in wisdom". I explain this in detail in the bible study I quoted. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/ .
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Matthew 8:2
Behold! there came a leper and worshipped Him

Matthew 4:10
for it is written, thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve.

Matthew 28:17
And when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted.


Do not doubt, little one
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
1,558
254
83
There exists a distinction between the earth and the world in scripture. God the Father is the one who created the earth, by his power, but the Messiah created the world upon the earth, through commands, which began with "let there be light". There is a distinction between what God created, and what God created through the Messiah, which is why "God created the earth by his power, but he created the world in wisdom". I explain this in detail in the bible study I quoted. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/ .
Wow cgneustar, you really do have some big problems and in your mind you think you have things you all sewed up. And to be "blunt" you don't know your Bible. Here is what Isaiah 24:44 states. "Thus says the Lord your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the Lord am the maker OF ALL THINGS. Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, and Spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

So, how do you reconcile what Isaiah says with what you say that the Messiah had a hand in creating the world upon the earth? Then to make matters worse, you said that God was all alone in your statements and now you've got the Messiah helping out.

Secondly, you told us that God the Father was the one who said at Genesis 1:3, "Let there be light." How do you know it was only God the Father since the "Father" is never mentioned in the creation account? The Holy Spirit is mentioned at Genesis 1:2, "And the earth was formless and void, and the darkness was over the surface of the deep; and THE SPIRIT of God was moving over the surface of the waters." Why is the Holy Spirit of God introduced here? Why does it not just say, "God was moving over the surface of the waters?"

Now, I can explain or reconcile all of this but your can't without saying unbiblical things. So go for it cgneustar. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,501
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
There exists a distinction between the earth and the world in scripture. God the Father is the one who created the earth, by his power, but the Messiah created the world upon the earth, through commands, which began with "let there be light". There is a distinction between what God created, and what God created through the Messiah, which is why "God created the earth by his power, but he created the world in wisdom". I explain this in detail in the bible study I quoted. http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/05/14/the-lie-of-the-trinity/ .
What you call a bible study seems to be one paragraph after another built like a programmed course, much like they do in brainwashing. I noticed errors starting to creep in fairly early. I still can't tell how and when you believe Jesus came into existence.

Like you, I think the label of "trinity" is an oversimplification. You do seem to believe the "I Am" entity to be the Father. Jesus clearly stated He was the "I AM" (see John 8:58). I believe scripture tells us that Jesus was the entity of the Godhead leading Israel in the wilderness.

1 Cor. 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." :cool:
 

jaybird88

Senior Member
Jan 7, 2015
5,251
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I already told you, the "experts" do not have an accurate measure of time, so they miscalculate when the Sumerian culture existed. They are are post-flood civilization, but when exactly they emerged after the flood is a mystery.
they have a very accurate measurement of time, thats why the lionshare of them are all in agreement, they are also in agreement with the ancient people themselves. the only thing out of agreement is this flood that took place right in their backyard and no one seemed to notice enough say anything about it. many of these ancient people have flood stories in their traditions and they put it at 10-10500 BC, these cultures are on different sides of the world and they didnt communicate with each other yet they all place the flood in the same time frame. just a coincidence i guess.
another problem we get into with this can of worms is when you start changing the timeline of these cultures you have to shift around many other ancient cultures being as we know which lived together and which did not, after all this shifting around you going to end up with Solomon and Jesus being contemporaries. sorry but there is just no way to make it work. you keep proclaiming no one wants to see the truth, you dont seem to be very interested in truth at all, you have a mountain of evidence right in front of you and refuse to acknowledge that its there.
another thing about this that baffles me, why is the age of earth/mankind such a huge big deal that your willing to go so far out into left field? now if someone said Jesus was just a fairytale, that would be a big deal, but the idea that mankind existed 10k BC rather than 5kBC, whats the difference? does it undue everything that Jesus taught? i just dont get it.
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,110
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Most trinitarians believe that Jesus is Jehovah.
Does it mean that, Johovah is Son in trinity (and not the Father)?
Whether a person believes in one God with no distinction of persons, or a trinity, Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

So that means Jehovah is Jesus whether Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

You can draw your own conclusion, but I believe that there is one God with no distinction of persons, and Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not 3 persons in a trinity, but the 3 relationships God has with His people designated by titles.

Father- parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints.

Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints.

One God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

In the Old Testament the Father said that He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which the Jews already knew the name Jehovah.

The prophet Agur asked, what is His name, the Father, and what is His Son's name, if you can tell, which means both Father and Son would share the same name.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name, manifested His Father's name, and declared His Father's name.

The Bible says that the Son inherited the name from the Father, which means the Father's name is Jesus, and the Son inherited that name from the Father.

Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh it is the name of both the Father, and Son, the man Christ Jesus.

Which the Bible says that the Son was made of the seed of David, according to the flesh, and when the fulness of the time was come God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and Jesus created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.

The Bible never says God the Son, but Son of God, and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, so if there is a trinity why was Jesus conceived by the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person, and not God the Son.

God said, is there a God beside Me, yea there is no God, I know not any.

And there was no God formed before Me, and there shall be no God formed after Me, I, even I, am the LORD, and beside Me there is no Savior.

Which hear O' Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD.

In the New Testament it states, that to those that know the truth there is but one God, the Father.

And in another place, one God, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Which the Bible only attributes the Father as God, so if there is a trinity why does the Bible say that.

In the Old Testament the Son shall be called the everlasting Father, which Jesus taught us we only have one Father to those that say He is an adopted Father.

The Father said in that He would reveal a new name to the saints, and speak to them.

Jesus told Philip that if he has seen Him then he has seen the Father, and the words that He speaks are not His own, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works, and speaks to them.

Jesus told the disciples that when He ascends to heaven to not ask Him anything, but only ask the Father.

But in another passage of scripture Jesus said when He resurrects to heaven to ask Him, and He will do it.

Jesus is God and man, and can speak either as God, or man, and when on earth the saints dealt with the man Christ Jesus as the way to the Father, but when Jesus resurrects to heaven they can go directly to Jesus as God.

I do not believe there is a trinity, but like the Bible says one God, the Father, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

How do they escape the truth, by the denomination that they go to that says there is a trinity, because they do not understand.

The Bible plainly states that there is one God, so they cannot escape that, but they say there is 3 persons in one God.

But then that would mean it takes all 3 persons to make one God.

But then they say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Father, saying there is 3 Gods.

So is it 3 persons in one God, or 3 Gods.

But falsehood will have it's contradictions.

1. Jesus is at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents wisdom, power, and salvation.

Jesus said all power is given to Me in heaven and earth.

There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, which only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God, but no person is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

There is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

David said, the LORD said unto My Lord, sit at My right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered, and when they are conquered, and the saints are with the Son, then the Son shall submit to God, even the Father, that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand, until His enemies are conquered, and the saints are with Him, then the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power, stop being at the right hand of God that God may be all in all.

Jesus does not sit next to the Father in heaven, but Jesus is the only visible manifestation of God we will see, which if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father.

2. Let us make man in our image.

Old Testament Adam made in the image of God.

In the New Testament Adam made in the figure, image, of Him to come, who is Jesus.

The image of God is the image of Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and without Him was not anything created that was created.

In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He started creation, and that plan was God manifest in flesh.

God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, although it did not happen until 4000 years later.

Which Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among many creatures.

Which God had the plan to come in flesh in the future, before He created Adam and Eve, and created them in the image that He would show up in the future, and that is an innocent nature in flesh.

Since the image of God is the image of Christ, then let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus for He is part of that image.

So it is not a trinity, but God the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus, a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God.

It throws some people off how Jesus can be God in a visible manifestation when God is an omnipresent Spirit.

But God manifest in the flesh means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and He has the Spirit without measure, and it pleased the Father that in Him all fulness should dwell.

And the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for God cannot be separated.

Which the man Christ Jesus does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him, for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty space where the Spirit is not at, and the Spirit does not have to move for the Spirit is already there.

But Jesus moves through the Spirit, and wherever He is at the Spirit is there, so it helps people to understand how Jesus can be an omnipresent Spirit, but be God manifest in the flesh.

Which the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God, which He laid down His life, and purchased the Church with His own blood.

The Bible says that Jesus is the only Ruler, who is Lord of lords, and King of kings, and dwells in the light which no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Jesus, and no person will ever see Jesus, for He is the invisible God who showed a visible image of Himself.

They can say there is a trinity, but to those that know the truth there is but one God, the Father.

When the Protestant movement protested they did not protest enough.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
11,501
6,041
113
73
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
Whether a person believes in one God with no distinction of persons, or a trinity, Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

So that means Jehovah is Jesus whether Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

You can draw your own conclusion, but I believe that there is one God with no distinction of persons, and Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not 3 persons in a trinity, but the 3 relationships God has with His people designated by titles.

Father- parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints.

Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints.

One God who is a Holy Spirit, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus.

In the Old Testament the Father said that He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them, which the Jews already knew the name Jehovah.

The prophet Agur asked, what is His name, the Father, and what is His Son's name, if you can tell, which means both Father and Son would share the same name.

Jesus said He came in His Father's name, manifested His Father's name, and declared His Father's name.

The Bible says that the Son inherited the name from the Father, which means the Father's name is Jesus, and the Son inherited that name from the Father.

Since Jesus is God manifest in the flesh it is the name of both the Father, and Son, the man Christ Jesus.

Which the Bible says that the Son was made of the seed of David, according to the flesh, and when the fulness of the time was come God sent forth His Son, made of a woman, made under the law.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and Jesus created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.

The Bible never says God the Son, but Son of God, and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, so if there is a trinity why was Jesus conceived by the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person, and not God the Son.

God said, is there a God beside Me, yea there is no God, I know not any.

And there was no God formed before Me, and there shall be no God formed after Me, I, even I, am the LORD, and beside Me there is no Savior.

Which hear O' Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD.

In the New Testament it states, that to those that know the truth there is but one God, the Father.

And in another place, one God, and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Which the Bible only attributes the Father as God, so if there is a trinity why does the Bible say that.

In the Old Testament the Son shall be called the everlasting Father, which Jesus taught us we only have one Father to those that say He is an adopted Father.

The Father said in that He would reveal a new name to the saints, and speak to them.

Jesus told Philip that if he has seen Him then he has seen the Father, and the words that He speaks are not His own, but the Father that dwells in Him, He does the works, and speaks to them.

Jesus told the disciples that when He ascends to heaven to not ask Him anything, but only ask the Father.

But in another passage of scripture Jesus said when He resurrects to heaven to ask Him, and He will do it.

Jesus is God and man, and can speak either as God, or man, and when on earth the saints dealt with the man Christ Jesus as the way to the Father, but when Jesus resurrects to heaven they can go directly to Jesus as God.

I do not believe there is a trinity, but like the Bible says one God, the Father, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

How do they escape the truth, by the denomination that they go to that says there is a trinity, because they do not understand.

The Bible plainly states that there is one God, so they cannot escape that, but they say there is 3 persons in one God.

But then that would mean it takes all 3 persons to make one God.

But then they say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Father, saying there is 3 Gods.

So is it 3 persons in one God, or 3 Gods.

But falsehood will have it's contradictions.

1. Jesus is at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents wisdom, power, and salvation.

Jesus said all power is given to Me in heaven and earth.

There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, which only a sinless man can reconcile the world unto God, but no person is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

There is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

David said, the LORD said unto My Lord, sit at My right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

For the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered, and when they are conquered, and the saints are with the Son, then the Son shall submit to God, even the Father, that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand, until His enemies are conquered, and the saints are with Him, then the Son shall stop exercising the throne of power, stop being at the right hand of God that God may be all in all.

Jesus does not sit next to the Father in heaven, but Jesus is the only visible manifestation of God we will see, which if you have seen Jesus you have seen the Father.

2. Let us make man in our image.

Old Testament Adam made in the image of God.

In the New Testament Adam made in the figure, image, of Him to come, who is Jesus.

The image of God is the image of Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and without Him was not anything created that was created.

In the beginning was the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and that plan was with God before He started creation, and that plan was God manifest in flesh.

God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as if it happened in the beginning.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, although it did not happen until 4000 years later.

Which Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among many creatures.

Which God had the plan to come in flesh in the future, before He created Adam and Eve, and created them in the image that He would show up in the future, and that is an innocent nature in flesh.

Since the image of God is the image of Christ, then let us make man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus for He is part of that image.

So it is not a trinity, but God the Father, and the Son, the man Christ Jesus, a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God.

It throws some people off how Jesus can be God in a visible manifestation when God is an omnipresent Spirit.

But God manifest in the flesh means that God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus, for He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily, and He has the Spirit without measure, and it pleased the Father that in Him all fulness should dwell.

And the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God, for God cannot be separated.

Which the man Christ Jesus does not have His own personal Spirit that moves around with Him, for there cannot be a double portion of the Spirit in one place, and an empty space where the Spirit is not at, and the Spirit does not have to move for the Spirit is already there.

But Jesus moves through the Spirit, and wherever He is at the Spirit is there, so it helps people to understand how Jesus can be an omnipresent Spirit, but be God manifest in the flesh.

Which the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God, which He laid down His life, and purchased the Church with His own blood.

The Bible says that Jesus is the only Ruler, who is Lord of lords, and King of kings, and dwells in the light which no person can approach unto, and no person has seen Jesus, and no person will ever see Jesus, for He is the invisible God who showed a visible image of Himself.

They can say there is a trinity, but to those that know the truth there is but one God, the Father.

When the Protestant movement protested they did not protest enough.
Like usual Matt, you post too much. I can't really tell what you believe other than "no trinity." Let me ask you: Do you describe yourself as oneness like the Apostolic Churches? :unsure: