Jesus IS King!!!

[ForthAngel]

They may not agree with this, but they are, in essence, saying God is not Sovereign over Satan. That's the (il)logic of their view.

I know I'll catch flack for this from the ones who hate when someone like me starts to use "isms" but a lot of those on the side of "Jesus isn't King" are almost expressing a form of dualism (two equal eternal forces at constant odds, one good and one evil), which is a dangerous position to take. The bible doesn't teach dualism. It teaches God is sovereign at all times and nothing is outside of his control ever. Some claim he doesn't have control whether by choice or by inability, both being untrue (most especially by inability).

Some that adhere to this fallacious understanding are the same type that say God cannot do anything on earth unless man allows him to through prayer. To make the claim that Christ is not King and God is not in control is at it's core blasphemy and a severe attack on the character of God. And by logical extension, if God is not in control, then Satan is more powerful than we think and could actually win the fight. The only way this statement isn't possible is if God is in absolute control and Christ reigns as King, from eternity past, now, and forever.

All this is really scary because people are essentially giving glory to Satan that does not belong to him but to Jesus Christ. "Satan is in control; he rules the earth unchecked; he is king for the time being; he is god of the world (everyone in the world)". This is exaltation of Satan over Christ.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Please define what you're calling sovereign? Thanks.

I have went against my better sense of judgment and unblocked you, but seeing I can read your heresies when others quote you, blocking you is useless anyways.

Define sovereign??? Srsly?? Can't believe I have to do this. Strike that...yes I can believe it...

Sovereign--Having ultimate or supreme power. If Satan has complete rule of the world, then God is not ruling over him. However, seeing ppl are being saved inspite of the devil having blinded the minds of unbelievers, that shows me He is still King, and overruling the devil.

 

[graceNpeace]

I know I'll catch flack for this from the ones who hate when someone like me starts to use "isms" but a lot of those on the side of "Jesus isn't King" are almost expressing a form of dualism (two equal eternal forces at constant odds, one good and one evil), which is a dangerous position to take. The bible doesn't teach dualism. It teaches God is sovereign at all times and nothing is outside of his control ever. Some claim he doesn't have control whether by choice or by inability, both being untrue (most especially by inability).

Some that adhere to this fallacious understanding are the same type that say God cannot do anything on earth unless man allows him to through prayer. To make the claim that Christ is not King and God is not in control is at it's core blasphemy and a severe attack on the character of God. And by logical extension, if God is not in control, then Satan is more powerful than we think and could actually win the fight. The only way this statement isn't possible is if God is in absolute control and Christ reigns as King, from eternity past, now, and forever.

All this is really scary because people are essentially giving glory to Satan that does not belong to him but to Jesus Christ. "Satan is in control; he rules the earth unchecked; he is king for the time being; he is god of the world (everyone in the world)". This is exaltation of Satan over Christ.

Perhaps you will take flak for this but as far as I am concerned you have hit the bullseye!

 

[SovereignGrace]

I know I'll catch flack for this from the ones who hate when someone like me starts to use "isms" but a lot of those on the side of "Jesus isn't King" are almost expressing a form of dualism (two equal eternal forces at constant odds, one good and one evil), which is a dangerous position to take. The bible doesn't teach dualism. It teaches God is sovereign at all times and nothing is outside of his control ever. Some claim he doesn't have control whether by choice or by inability, both being untrue (most especially by inability).

Some that adhere to this fallacious understanding are the same type that say God cannot do anything on earth unless man allows him to through prayer. To make the claim that Christ is not King and God is not in control is at it's core blasphemy and a severe attack on the character of God. And by logical extension, if God is not in control, then Satan is more powerful than we think and could actually win the fight. The only way this statement isn't possible is if God is in absolute control and Christ reigns as King, from eternity past, now, and forever.

All this is really scary because people are essentially giving glory to Satan that does not belong to him but to Jesus Christ. "Satan is in control; he rules the earth unchecked; he is king for the time being; he is god of the world (everyone in the world)". This is exaltation of Satan over Christ.

When Adam sinned, God was in control.
When Job was being assaulted by the devil, God was in control.
When Joseph was sold into slavery by his very own brothers, God was in control.
When Israel was in Babylonian captivity for 70 years, God was in control.
When Israel was enslaved in Egypt, God was in control.
When the Christ was crucified, God was in control.
When God's prophets were being slain, God was in control.
When the Apostles were being beatened and slain, God was in control.

To say He is not King now, is just plain heresy.

 

[John146]

I have went against my better sense of judgment and unblocked you, but seeing I can read your heresies when others quote you, blocking you is useless anyways.

Define sovereign??? Srsly?? Can't believe I have to do this. Strike that...yes I can believe it...

Sovereign--Having ultimate or supreme power. If Satan has complete rule of the world, then God is not ruling over him. However, seeing ppl are being saved inspite of the devil having blinded the minds of unbelievers, that shows me He is still King, and overruling the devil.

God is supreme. God is over all. But God is not controlling all things yet. He is allowing this world to run in chaos under the control of Satan and his ministers.

When God is controlling all things, this world will not be in chaos and darkness. That's my future King!

 

[John146]

I have went against my better sense of judgment and unblocked you, but seeing I can read your heresies when others quote you, blocking you is useless anyways.

Thank you. Not quite sure why anyone would "block" another on the board. Disagree? Yes, but not block. You should be able to handle others who disagree with you.

 

[preacher4truth]

I know I'll catch flack for this from the ones who hate when someone like me starts to use "isms" but a lot of those on the side of "Jesus isn't King" are almost expressing a form of dualism (two equal eternal forces at constant odds, one good and one evil), which is a dangerous position to take. The bible doesn't teach dualism. It teaches God is sovereign at all times and nothing is outside of his control ever. Some claim he doesn't have control whether by choice or by inability, both being untrue (most especially by inability).

Some that adhere to this fallacious understanding are the same type that say God cannot do anything on earth unless man allows him to through prayer. To make the claim that Christ is not King and God is not in control is at it's core blasphemy and a severe attack on the character of God. And by logical extension, if God is not in control, then Satan is more powerful than we think and could actually win the fight. The only way this statement isn't possible is if God is in absolute control and Christ reigns as King, from eternity past, now, and forever.

All this is really scary because people are essentially giving glory to Satan that does not belong to him but to Jesus Christ. "Satan is in control; he rules the earth unchecked; he is king for the time being; he is god of the world (everyone in the world)". This is exaltation of Satan over Christ.

People try to get God "off the hook" for all the evil in the world so they teach errant things concerning His Sovereignty over all things. Even the teachings of Job are at stake and aren't off limits for this attack and attempt to "protect God."

All this tension instead of accepting the fact God is ruling Sovereignly over all things at all times.

 

[John146]

All this is really scary because people are essentially giving glory to Satan that does not belong to him but to Jesus Christ. "Satan is in control; he rules the earth unchecked; he is king for the time being; he is god of the world (everyone in the world)". This is exaltation of Satan over Christ.

Scripture states that Satan is the ruler of the darkness of this world. Scripture says Satan is the god of this world. Scripture states that Satan is the prince of this world. Scripture states these things my friend. This is not made up stuff.

 

[SovereignGrace]

God is supreme. God is over all. But God is not controlling all things yet. He is allowing this world to run in chaos under the control of Satan and his ministers.

When God is controlling all things, this world will not be in chaos and darkness. That's my future King!

And by God allowing it shows Who is in control. All He has to do is say "Stop!" and Satan stops. God is in control because He IS King. You're exaltation of Satan has not fallen upon blinded eyes.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Scripture states that Satan is the ruler of the darkness of this world.

And he is because God has allowed him to.

Scripture says Satan is the god of this world.

Context is god of unbelievers. He has their minds still blinded. He is 'god' because God has allowed him to be.

Scripture states that Satan is the prince of this world.

He is prince, God is King. YUGE difference.

Scripture states these things my friend.

Thou art twisting them to thine own destruction.

This is not made up stuff.

Sure it is. God has not exalted the devil, you guys and gals have.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Thank you. Not quite sure why anyone would "block" another on the board. Disagree? Yes, but not block. You should be able to handle others who disagree with you.

When ppl are a perpetual walking heresy, its hard to witness.

 

[John146]

And by God allowing it shows Who is in control. All He has to do is say "Stop!" and Satan stops. God is in control because He IS King. You're exaltation of Satan has not fallen upon blinded eyes.

My exaltation of Satan? Really? I simply quoted Scripture. Scripture states he is the god of this world, prince of this world, and the ruler of the darkness of this world.

This whole thread was to point out that God the Father is on the throne right now, and Jesus is seated at His right hand. There will come a day where the Lord Jesus Christ will return to rule and reign over all the earth and when He does, this world will not be in disorder like it is now. How is that "heresy"? It's Scripture.

 

[SovereignGrace]

People try to get God "off the hook" for all the evil in the world so they teach errant things concerning His Sovereignty over all things. Even the teachings of Job are at stake and aren't off limits for this attack and attempt to "protect God."

All this tension instead of accepting the fact God is ruling Sovereignly over all things at all times.

I get what they're trying to espouse. If God is in control, then why the chaos? By there has been chaos in the world since the fall, and not one nanosecond of time has passed w/o Him being in control. Even when Cain killed Abel, gasp, shock, horror, God was in control.

 

[SovereignGrace]

My exaltation of Satan? Really? I simply quoted Scripture. Scripture states he is the god of this world, prince of this world, and the ruler of the darkness of this world.

This whole thread was to point out that God the Father is on the throne right now, and Jesus is seated at His right hand. There will come a day where the Lord Jesus Christ will return to rule and reign over all the earth and when He does, this world will not be in disorder like it is now. How is that "heresy"? It's Scripture.

Nothing Satan does is not w/o allowance from God.

Is God sovereign over the devil?

I defined sovereign already.

 

[ForthAngel]

Scripture states that Satan is the ruler of the darkness of this world. Scripture says Satan is the god of this world. Scripture states that Satan is the prince of this world. Scripture states these things my friend. This is not made up stuff.

I know the scriptures. He is god of the world. We have been called out of the world and set apart. He is not my god. He is god the of the vessels of wrath and the sons of disobedience, of the apostates and all who reject God. That is as far as his rule extends. It in no way implies that he operates on an equal level with God or that God is somehow not in control of things. Even the sins people commit and the evils of the world God is sovereign over. This is how we know all things work together for good for those who love him and are called according to his purposes.

We know this plainly from scripture. When Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers, what did he say? What you intended for evil, God intended for good. This is a clear picture of God being sovereign even over evil. We see it with the crucifixion.

Acts 4
23 When they were released, they went to their friends and reported what the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24 And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, “Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them, 25 who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit,

“‘Why did the Gentiles rage,
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers were gathered together,
against the Lord and against his Anointed’—

27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

God has not relinquished control over the earth. Satan is merely a dog on a leash.

 

[sevenseas]

You can link directly to your posts by right clicking the post # on the blue bar and "copy link location" or something along those lines. Makes it easier. P4T is referring to a thread where you jumped on one side (the reformed side) for exposing WoF, and then turned around and jumped on the WoF side as well. I remember this happening too. However, I think me and you did finally come to an understanding when I posted about lordship salvation as opposed to easy believism on the "not by works thread". You did respond with "now I get it" or "finally, that makes sense (in a positive uncondemning way)" or something along those lines. I personally don't have anything against you and am glad you oppose WoF. It does suck that you also discredit the reformed side as well though.

As far as one side or the other having the full truth disclosed? I'd have to say that reformed side is by far more biblically sound than any other camp one might belong to. Truth is absolute and not a subjective thing. The work of the Holy Spirit is even "to lead you into all truth" (Jhn 16:13). If we all aren't eventually arriving at the same truth (because it can't mean two things), then someone is wrong somewhere.

well yes I remember those conversations

however, part of my problem with preacher was his nasty posts, he seems to have calmed down some

anyway, I have never agreed with WOF. I think his gripe was really with my disclosure that I am not a Calvinist and also the fact I objected to some of his nastiness

well you would of course say the reformed side is more biblical if that is the side you choose

however, I have been there and back and if I am uncomfortable I will continue to pray until I am comfortable

my background is not Pentecostal or Charismatic but it is also not reformed

yeah probably someone is wrong somewhere, but I am not someone who follows a personality

thanks

 

[John146]

I get what they're trying to espouse. If God is in control, then why the chaos? By there has been chaos in the world since the fall, and not one nanosecond of time has passed w/o Him being in control. Even when Cain killed Abel, gasp, shock, horror, God was in control.

I know why the chaos? Because God has allowed Satan to rule over the darkness of this world. But there will come a time when it all ends for Satan and Jesus will be King of all the earth and will sit upon the throne of David promised Him.

Again, who does Scripture say is on the throne in heaven right now? And who is seated at His right hand?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Joseph proclaimed 'you meant it for evil, but God intended it for good'.
When the Christ was crucified by the hands of wicked men, it was by the foreknowledge and determined counsel of God that it be so.
When Job was assaulted by Satan, God said 'do what you will, except killing him'.
When Israel was captured by Babylon, it was said God gave King Jehoiakim was given into Nebachudnezzar's hands.

God is in control. God is King now.

 

[dcontroversal]

Nothing Satan does is not w/o allowance from God.

Is God sovereign over the devil?

I defined sovereign already.

My view....God is in control of it all....and within this concept is found the permissive will of God.....take our lives for example.....most if not all will claim possession of it by saying this is MY LIFE I will...fill in the blank.....not realizing that God has pre-set everyone's time under the sun (Job 14)...The rich man is a prime example of this.....I will build bigger barns etc...and God calls him a fool and states...THIS NIGHT THY SOUL IS REQUIRED OF THEE......exactly why James states...GO TO NOW YE THAT SAY, TODAY or TOMORROW etc.....

Remember the demons....they had to seek PERMISSION from JESUS to enter the hogs.......GOD, JESUS, THE Heavenly FATHER are in control....end of story!

 

[SovereignGrace]

I know why the chaos? Because God has allowed Satan to rule over the darkness of this world. But there will come a time when it all ends for Satan and Jesus will be King of all the earth and will sit upon the throne of David promised Him.

Again, who does Scripture say is on the throne in heaven right now? And who is seated at His right hand?

And by God giving Him allowance means He is King, even over the devil. Gasp!! Shock!! Horror!!