Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?
- Thread starter Phoneman-777
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Good day, Phoneman,
Those in Christ are not under the law by any means, for Jesus fulfilled the law satisfying it completely. Regarding the keeping of Sabbaths (any) or eating food that under the Law was forbidden, scripture says the following:
"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
"One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."
Paul said this in regards to those who still require other believers to conform to the Law given to Israel through Moses, to observe these things as works of the Law in order to obtain salvation. When the group of Pharisees who were still hanging onto the law said that the Gentile believers must be circumcised and made to obey the law of Moses, the following was concluded:
=================================================================================================
But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.
After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.
Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
===============================================================================================
The yoke that Peter is referring to, is the Law of Moses, which includes all Sabbaths, as well as food laws and the rest of the 600 plus laws. We are under a different covenant, being led by the Spirit and following Christ. If we in in our walks in Christ, we confess them and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. The person who is in Christ is not going to have an attitude that he is free to sin because he is under grace, but will endeavor to honor God with his body. And as believers continue in faith, they will be transformed into the image of Christ.
In addition, if the keeping of the Sabbath was detrimental to a believers salvation, you would think that the lack of keeping it would be mentioned in the letters to the seven churches. Yet there is no rebuke or mention of the Sabbath anywhere in the book of Revelation.
We entered into God's rest when we received Christ.
Those in Christ are not under the law by any means, for Jesus fulfilled the law satisfying it completely. Regarding the keeping of Sabbaths (any) or eating food that under the Law was forbidden, scripture says the following:
"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."
"One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."
Paul said this in regards to those who still require other believers to conform to the Law given to Israel through Moses, to observe these things as works of the Law in order to obtain salvation. When the group of Pharisees who were still hanging onto the law said that the Gentile believers must be circumcised and made to obey the law of Moses, the following was concluded:
=================================================================================================
But some believers from the party of the Pharisees stood up and declared, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.” So the apostles and elders met to look into this matter.
After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, showed His approval by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as He did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for He cleansed their hearts by faith.
Now then, why do you test God by placing on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe it is through the grace of the Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
===============================================================================================
The yoke that Peter is referring to, is the Law of Moses, which includes all Sabbaths, as well as food laws and the rest of the 600 plus laws. We are under a different covenant, being led by the Spirit and following Christ. If we in in our walks in Christ, we confess them and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness. The person who is in Christ is not going to have an attitude that he is free to sin because he is under grace, but will endeavor to honor God with his body. And as believers continue in faith, they will be transformed into the image of Christ.
In addition, if the keeping of the Sabbath was detrimental to a believers salvation, you would think that the lack of keeping it would be mentioned in the letters to the seven churches. Yet there is no rebuke or mention of the Sabbath anywhere in the book of Revelation.
We entered into God's rest when we received Christ.
probably more like a de-stressing time i believe. the letter (literal) can confuse and mislead, but the spirit brings wisdom and truth.
Romans 2:29
No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise does not come from men, but from God.
Romans 7:6
But now, having died to what bound us (inasmuch as we have so far thus died Phil 2:12), we have been released from the law (wherever the spirit begins to reign in our life Phil 2:12), so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit (not by a book/with words, ideas but by/in actuality -- truly and correctly), and not in the old way of the written code (written words are not spirit and not the totality always of how we must learn to be -- in actuality -- not in ideas from words and verses -- code, decided for ourselves without the help of God (spirit).
New Living
... it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.
Amplified Bible
... continue to work out your salvation [that is, cultivate it, bring it to full effect, actively pursue spiritual maturity] with awe-inspired fear and trembling [using serious caution and critical self-evaluation to avoid anything that might offend God or discredit the name of Christ].
Matthew 22:36-40
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
-
1
- Show all
it’s not about Moses law brother here’s the quorum of apostles deciding this
the issue they confronted
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
thier conclusion after a heated debate
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
Acts 15:5-6, 24
now I agree with you that we don’t have a pass to live in sin where we differ is we’re obligated to Jesus word the New Testament and not Moses word the Old Testament so
it went from Thou shalt not commit adultery “ a law for sinners without the spirit to “ of you lust after someone in your heart you have already committed adultery in your heart “
so it goes from Moses carnal law to Gods spiritual law . If we move drom
Moses word to Jesus word ot will take away the lust that causes us to want to act in adultery . It doesn’t give us freedom to commit sin it gives us freedom from sins power over us which is the inner issues like list in the heart
So it’s not Moses law but christs law
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
we are to believe , follow after and keep Jesus word . The is doesn’t mean now we will break Moses word , Jesus word of kept means we will Never commit adultery if we accept and keep it . And begin to fight the lust when it’s a small seed before it roots in our heart and drives us to commit sin
Jesus word targets the issue that keeps us bound
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
our issue is insode our mind and heart Gods living word of the gospel has this effect on those hearts it teaches us discernment and circumcised our hearts
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
Jesus spoke to the inner man to rod themselves of lust , that’s how we keep the law by forgetting Moses law and hearing Jesus word
the issue they confronted
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
thier conclusion after a heated debate
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
Acts 15:5-6, 24
now I agree with you that we don’t have a pass to live in sin where we differ is we’re obligated to Jesus word the New Testament and not Moses word the Old Testament so
it went from Thou shalt not commit adultery “ a law for sinners without the spirit to “ of you lust after someone in your heart you have already committed adultery in your heart “
so it goes from Moses carnal law to Gods spiritual law . If we move drom
Moses word to Jesus word ot will take away the lust that causes us to want to act in adultery . It doesn’t give us freedom to commit sin it gives us freedom from sins power over us which is the inner issues like list in the heart
So it’s not Moses law but christs law
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
we are to believe , follow after and keep Jesus word . The is doesn’t mean now we will break Moses word , Jesus word of kept means we will Never commit adultery if we accept and keep it . And begin to fight the lust when it’s a small seed before it roots in our heart and drives us to commit sin
Jesus word targets the issue that keeps us bound
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
our issue is insode our mind and heart Gods living word of the gospel has this effect on those hearts it teaches us discernment and circumcised our hearts
“For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
Jesus spoke to the inner man to rod themselves of lust , that’s how we keep the law by forgetting Moses law and hearing Jesus word
"Jesus Is The Lord" Of The Old Testament, His Ten Commandments Are Seen In Exodus 20:1-17
Exodus 20:8-11KJV
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
John 14:21KJV
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 15:9-10KJV
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Exodus 20:8-11KJV
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
John 14:21KJV
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 15:9-10KJV
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
The scripture below used by many to suggest, that "Sabbath" observance has been removed if one loves God and his Neighbor?
The scripture below enforces the Ten Commandments, as there are commandments that apply to God, and the others apply to the neighbor
Example: If you love God, you wont use his name in vain, commit Idolatry, and will keep his Sabbath Day
If you love your Neighbor, you wont kill him, steal from him, or covet his wife or property
Matthew 22:37-40KJV
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
The scripture below enforces the Ten Commandments, as there are commandments that apply to God, and the others apply to the neighbor
Example: If you love God, you wont use his name in vain, commit Idolatry, and will keep his Sabbath Day
If you love your Neighbor, you wont kill him, steal from him, or covet his wife or property
Matthew 22:37-40KJV
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
-
1
- Show all
Jesus called it the "first and great commandment." The first commandment of the 10 commandments doesn't days "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." So he isn't talking about the 10 commandments.
Rather, Jesus is establishing a new set of commandments and there are literally only two:
1. The first and greatest commandment
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind"
2. The second commandment
"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
Notice Jesus never said "Keep the 10 commandments." Rather He established new commandments that depend on how much we love God and our neighbor, rather than grudgingly obeying the law for no other reason than pure fear of being punished or stoned.
Our sins are already forgiven. If anything at all we're following the 10 commandments because we love God. That's it.
Rather, Jesus is establishing a new set of commandments and there are literally only two:
1. The first and greatest commandment
"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind"
2. The second commandment
"Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
Notice Jesus never said "Keep the 10 commandments." Rather He established new commandments that depend on how much we love God and our neighbor, rather than grudgingly obeying the law for no other reason than pure fear of being punished or stoned.
Our sins are already forgiven. If anything at all we're following the 10 commandments because we love God. That's it.
-
1
- Show all
We Will Disagree, If You Love God And Your Neighbor You Will Fulfill The 10 Commandments As Explained
Example: Has Thou Shat Not Kill, Commit Adultery, Steal, Idolatry, Etc been removed (No)
The words of Jesus Christ Upheld The Ten Commandments, And His Words Simplified The Observance Of All 10 Into Two, Commandments Unto God, And Neighbor
The scripture below used by many to suggest, that "Sabbath" observance has been removed if one loves God and his Neighbor?
The scripture below enforces the Ten Commandments, as there are commandments that apply to God, and the others apply to the neighbor
Example: If you love God, you wont use his name in vain, commit Idolatry, and will keep his Sabbath Day
If you love your Neighbor, you wont kill him, steal from him, or covet his wife or property
Matthew 5:17-19KJV
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
At No Time Has Jesus Christ Replaced The Ten Commandments As You Claim, Just One "Clear" Example Is Seen In Matthew 19:17-19 Below
Matthew 19:17-19
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Matthew 22:37-40KJV
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Example: Has Thou Shat Not Kill, Commit Adultery, Steal, Idolatry, Etc been removed (No)
The words of Jesus Christ Upheld The Ten Commandments, And His Words Simplified The Observance Of All 10 Into Two, Commandments Unto God, And Neighbor
The scripture below used by many to suggest, that "Sabbath" observance has been removed if one loves God and his Neighbor?
The scripture below enforces the Ten Commandments, as there are commandments that apply to God, and the others apply to the neighbor
Example: If you love God, you wont use his name in vain, commit Idolatry, and will keep his Sabbath Day
If you love your Neighbor, you wont kill him, steal from him, or covet his wife or property
Matthew 5:17-19KJV
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
At No Time Has Jesus Christ Replaced The Ten Commandments As You Claim, Just One "Clear" Example Is Seen In Matthew 19:17-19 Below
Matthew 19:17-19
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Matthew 22:37-40KJV
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
1 John 1:9KJV
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2:1-2KJV
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 2:1-2KJV
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:1-2KJV
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 1:9KJV
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 1:9KJV
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
-
1
- Show all