Jesus was not only GOD but the GOD-MAN.
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Catholics use that with doubting Thomas in the same way to justify the idea that his kingdom does by comes by observations .The things seen .
They offer a understanding . Show us a miracle then we will believe..( No faith)
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
The commandment as a directive (not a choice) worked in Thomas to both will and do the god pleasure
Be not faithless, but believing .Previously having no faith
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing
Having believed the work of God working in him he answered
John 20:28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
He was not reckoned by lord my God by what the eyes see. But by the words that faithfully worked in him.
They offer a understanding . Show us a miracle then we will believe..( No faith)
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
The commandment as a directive (not a choice) worked in Thomas to both will and do the god pleasure
Be not faithless, but believing .Previously having no faith
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing
Having believed the work of God working in him he answered
John 20:28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
He was not reckoned by lord my God by what the eyes see. But by the words that faithfully worked in him.
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I was show Bill Blake and Dante by Thomas Harris and came to recognize the subversive nature of art in general and its impetus despite its appearant "given to the glory" pretense. The more you read into things, the more you think you understand the more you undermine your faith and your objectivity.
Although on the surface it sounds like you have the right understanding of this, some of your comments make me think otherwise.
"Having believed the work of God working in him he answered..."
That is not supported by the text. Jesus is saying to him, "Look at the evidence! Observe the reality of My risen body!" Thomas did so, and his immediate response was a declaration of faith. There simply is no room in the story for what you claim. This is further supported by Jesus' declarative question, "Because you have seen, you have believed?"
By the way, Jesus did not criticize Thomas for believing only upon seeing. The other disciples had done exactly the same thing, only they had already seen the risen Jesus and so had already believed.
"Having believed the work of God working in him he answered..."
That is not supported by the text. Jesus is saying to him, "Look at the evidence! Observe the reality of My risen body!" Thomas did so, and his immediate response was a declaration of faith. There simply is no room in the story for what you claim. This is further supported by Jesus' declarative question, "Because you have seen, you have believed?"
By the way, Jesus did not criticize Thomas for believing only upon seeing. The other disciples had done exactly the same thing, only they had already seen the risen Jesus and so had already believed.
Art is a medium for communication as much as the expression of talent and skill. This is particularly true in art prior to 1850 or so. Paintings in particular were carefully composed to tell a story, not merely to capture a scene. That story may have been truth, or it may have been the story that the painter (or, more likely, the patron) wanted to tell.
Faith that is built on error or fantasy is undermined by truth. Genuine faith is built on the solid certainty of truth. I have faith in the nature and promises of God because He has both told me in Scripture that He is faithful, and He has demonstrated it in my life. If you were to ask people like the researchers at Answers in Genesis, you'd find that their faith is edified by their research, not undermined by it.
Faith that is built on error or fantasy is undermined by truth. Genuine faith is built on the solid certainty of truth. I have faith in the nature and promises of God because He has both told me in Scripture that He is faithful, and He has demonstrated it in my life. If you were to ask people like the researchers at Answers in Genesis, you'd find that their faith is edified by their research, not undermined by it.
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The kingdom comes not after the temporal things seen.(observation) those of men.
Yes, he is not suggesting we make the law of faith (the unseen eternal) without effect,
Thomas doubted. Doubt is not the opposite of faith .No faith is, not little faith, none.
Because the word of God is Spirit and life giving .There were two commandments the first a sarcastic rebuke. (Sarcasm = meaning tearing of the flesh or get under ones skin ) and the other a loving commandment; "Believe and be not faithless" .Therefore having the power to beleive as a anchor to ones soul . The prophecy being filled. It filled Thomas with the Holy Spirit and moved by the Spirit Thomas declared . . "My Lord and my God". God working in Thomas to both will and do the good pleasure.
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing
Again he was not destroying the faith as a work or labor principle he was building on it.
No man can serve two masters in that way. (1) the flesh the things seen and (2) the unseen eternal Spirit.
Yes, he is not suggesting we make the law of faith (the unseen eternal) without effect,
Thomas doubted. Doubt is not the opposite of faith .No faith is, not little faith, none.
Because the word of God is Spirit and life giving .There were two commandments the first a sarcastic rebuke. (Sarcasm = meaning tearing of the flesh or get under ones skin ) and the other a loving commandment; "Believe and be not faithless" .Therefore having the power to beleive as a anchor to ones soul . The prophecy being filled. It filled Thomas with the Holy Spirit and moved by the Spirit Thomas declared . . "My Lord and my God". God working in Thomas to both will and do the good pleasure.
John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing
Again he was not destroying the faith as a work or labor principle he was building on it.
No man can serve two masters in that way. (1) the flesh the things seen and (2) the unseen eternal Spirit.
Yes wondering, marveling is for those wonder .Faith for those given the understanding of God who faithfully works in us.
The sign of the rebuke?
Signs as metaphors follow after one that can believe in God not seen . We do not seek after them to self edify oneself. Christians understand after the unseen things of God, things of faith.
The context of that parable in John 20 is not . . its OK to start lying rumor's like that of Peter as a oral traditions of men . Christ did the work of rebuking Peter. If every time the Holy Spirit was recorded dismissing lies the whole world would not hold the volumes that could of been written One warning should be enough .Peter had plenty
The sign of the rebuke?
Signs as metaphors follow after one that can believe in God not seen . We do not seek after them to self edify oneself. Christians understand after the unseen things of God, things of faith.
The context of that parable in John 20 is not . . its OK to start lying rumor's like that of Peter as a oral traditions of men . Christ did the work of rebuking Peter. If every time the Holy Spirit was recorded dismissing lies the whole world would not hold the volumes that could of been written One warning should be enough .Peter had plenty
I am going to give you the most valuable phrase i have learned thus far from all language. A distillation of all faith and love and angst reduced from the entirety of my lexicon. I dont know. Now, with this preface, and, having piqued your interest i had to dash it upon my ignorance. I hope you can relate to my intentions, which are; to share said ignorance with whoever will listen and perhaps find contemporaries who are as eager as i am, if we must live, to live in the truth, as it lives in us.
I have heard the bible called a puzzle, i have heard it described as the untranslatable, a love letter, a weapon, a testament. I have seen it used to bring peace, bring profit, elicit truth, and consummate unions. I have seen men used to hurt and to heal, build nations and destroy them, set fires and put them out, praise God and curse him. To that end, the bible is part of the world, just as the men who transcribed it were. The muse they claim is not, however, and if i stare at the bible long enough, it is a catalogue of the destruction of mankind and even the son of God. A picturebook of a people trying to live on earth against someones wishes, but God is credited with saying fill the earth and subdue it. Not by the bible, but by the will of God did christ live and love, and by the bible was he killed. (torah) words written and attributed to God. By the bible also is the end of billions required to establish Gods kingdom on earth, but the kingdom of God IS men and the earth is where we live. Do i believe the entirety of the bible can be described as the work of the devil? No. The bible is the binding of men. You and me, we shall either witness Gods people manifest or continue to live in a world surrounded by all we disdain until we, like the foolish woman, tear our world to pieces with our own hands. If God wanted subjects who spend night and day genuflecting and chanting on their knees, he could have just created that. Coulda skipped right to revelation and never showed us a man who lived as we should, and never once bowed before Him but said, I praise you, for you have hidden the things from the wise and revealed them to children. The intent of the bible was make us believe in a God, and you may find him either at the point of a sword, on your way to damascus, or at the bottom of a sistern, perhaps even hanging on a cross. If fear of the lord is the begining of wisdom, and the knowledge and virtue of life is saying "who is the lord" and the way of peace is self control and perseverance unto seperation from the world, though "God has put eternity in mens hearts but they cannot fathom it" then gee, i guess someone killed the author of life and wrote a book about it as christ is all these virtues and more and was before the world (fear of the lord) began. He did not need to suffer to earn/grasp them. All scripture may be God inspired but not all scripture is God be praised.
About the supernatural devil you doubt, I cant say, however, when christ (gave paul the epiphany) paul became an instrument of leadership and healing, noone fell dead at his feet, children were not slain 40 at a time, men were brought together, empowered and made weary of supernatural beings who in contrast, divided mens' language, set up other men before them, gave them laws they could not live by, demanded blood sacrifice, throw men in prison, tear unborn children from their wombs, start our wars and then feed our armies to the birds and the sharks and trampled the son of man underfoot. Not every iniquity you suffer in life will be at the hands of a proud man or a vain woman, that just what they do to us, not every rebuke you receive is sent from divinity to help you. Hurting people makes them feel good somehow and they cannot rest till they have made someone fall i don't know why but christ said they refuse to come to him for life. Perhaps, the only way they want to be exposed to virtue is by virtue of suffering, missing the greater, more powerful forces of virtue exibited in the life christ should have had and did have and called out for saying, father, bring me into the glory we had before the world began!
I have heard the bible called a puzzle, i have heard it described as the untranslatable, a love letter, a weapon, a testament. I have seen it used to bring peace, bring profit, elicit truth, and consummate unions. I have seen men used to hurt and to heal, build nations and destroy them, set fires and put them out, praise God and curse him. To that end, the bible is part of the world, just as the men who transcribed it were. The muse they claim is not, however, and if i stare at the bible long enough, it is a catalogue of the destruction of mankind and even the son of God. A picturebook of a people trying to live on earth against someones wishes, but God is credited with saying fill the earth and subdue it. Not by the bible, but by the will of God did christ live and love, and by the bible was he killed. (torah) words written and attributed to God. By the bible also is the end of billions required to establish Gods kingdom on earth, but the kingdom of God IS men and the earth is where we live. Do i believe the entirety of the bible can be described as the work of the devil? No. The bible is the binding of men. You and me, we shall either witness Gods people manifest or continue to live in a world surrounded by all we disdain until we, like the foolish woman, tear our world to pieces with our own hands. If God wanted subjects who spend night and day genuflecting and chanting on their knees, he could have just created that. Coulda skipped right to revelation and never showed us a man who lived as we should, and never once bowed before Him but said, I praise you, for you have hidden the things from the wise and revealed them to children. The intent of the bible was make us believe in a God, and you may find him either at the point of a sword, on your way to damascus, or at the bottom of a sistern, perhaps even hanging on a cross. If fear of the lord is the begining of wisdom, and the knowledge and virtue of life is saying "who is the lord" and the way of peace is self control and perseverance unto seperation from the world, though "God has put eternity in mens hearts but they cannot fathom it" then gee, i guess someone killed the author of life and wrote a book about it as christ is all these virtues and more and was before the world (fear of the lord) began. He did not need to suffer to earn/grasp them. All scripture may be God inspired but not all scripture is God be praised.
About the supernatural devil you doubt, I cant say, however, when christ (gave paul the epiphany) paul became an instrument of leadership and healing, noone fell dead at his feet, children were not slain 40 at a time, men were brought together, empowered and made weary of supernatural beings who in contrast, divided mens' language, set up other men before them, gave them laws they could not live by, demanded blood sacrifice, throw men in prison, tear unborn children from their wombs, start our wars and then feed our armies to the birds and the sharks and trampled the son of man underfoot. Not every iniquity you suffer in life will be at the hands of a proud man or a vain woman, that just what they do to us, not every rebuke you receive is sent from divinity to help you. Hurting people makes them feel good somehow and they cannot rest till they have made someone fall i don't know why but christ said they refuse to come to him for life. Perhaps, the only way they want to be exposed to virtue is by virtue of suffering, missing the greater, more powerful forces of virtue exibited in the life christ should have had and did have and called out for saying, father, bring me into the glory we had before the world began!
That is a pretty decent explanation, however I have to take exception to you saying this is "not about salvation". If it were not about salvation, then you believe that God is acting in a different way in the Old economy to be saved, than He is acting now. The Old economy were types and shadows of the New economy but salvation was the same then as it is today. That is, salvation is all of God. This is why both our Lord and the Apostle Paul quoted from the Old Testament so often, to show how the Old pointed to Christ and the New.
Only those who are saved by grace, will enter into the Kingdom which is to come, whether they be Jew or Gentile. The laws of the Old economy were never meant to save because they could never be kept, ONLY Jesus was able to keep them. Thus, the laws not only educated the saved to what sin and who the coming Savior is but condemned the lost. I could agree with you that it is not about Salvation, if the other virgins were not called "fools" ( a statement so readily applied to the religionist and lost by our Lord), and if they were not denied entrance into the Kingdom. This rejection is parallel to the one our Lord gave in Mat. 7:21-23:
(Mat 7:21-23) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Only those who are saved by grace, will enter into the Kingdom which is to come, whether they be Jew or Gentile. The laws of the Old economy were never meant to save because they could never be kept, ONLY Jesus was able to keep them. Thus, the laws not only educated the saved to what sin and who the coming Savior is but condemned the lost. I could agree with you that it is not about Salvation, if the other virgins were not called "fools" ( a statement so readily applied to the religionist and lost by our Lord), and if they were not denied entrance into the Kingdom. This rejection is parallel to the one our Lord gave in Mat. 7:21-23:
(Mat 7:21-23) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is sometimes difficult to keep up with everything that is said, so a couple of questions then: Do you believe in a triune God? Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Three persons in one God?
Do you believe that in the Hypostatic Union, wherein the nature of the Second person of the God-Head, joined with that Holy one, Jesus? Two distinct natures in one man.
Do you believe that in the Hypostatic Union, wherein the nature of the Second person of the God-Head, joined with that Holy one, Jesus? Two distinct natures in one man.
As it relates to the topic of man/god duality in christ i must relate my concern deifying christ or denying his godwill totally are meant respectively to remove from your ability to do what he did or relegate his ministry and death to divinity and attribute those sufferings to godwill, revealing a subversion in our testament which i can find commonalities of in literature and the arts in general showing a corruption and state of entropy endemic to all human endevour with the goal of mocking God at a level of which even the very wise could not understand, as it is based on falsehood including the debate we are having... right.... now!
Its no good its no good he says, then off he goes and boasts of his purchase.
Its no good its no good he says, then off he goes and boasts of his purchase.