Jewish & Gentile Relationship

[Mountaindude28]

Mountaindude28, maybe I could make the question more concrete.

How about relating about sometime when you have converted and Orthodox Jewish person to Christianity? What did you say? What was the situation? The location?

Where in the bible did Paul make Jews Christians?

Jews are to be Jews and still believe in Yeshua. See that’s the problem. You want Jews to give up the Torah and by church fathers theology.....hence why real Jews hate Christianity. What do you think Christians have done for 2,000 years to the Jews? So that isn’t the way clearly and nor is it biblical.

That’s why Paul’s writings clearly show a “separation” but a spiritual “oneness” in Yeshua. Everyone has a different role. Jews hold “spiritual gifts” like Paul says (Romans 16) this Gentile bring “physical ones”. But that doesn’t make anyone less or more.

 

[iamsoandso]

This has nothing to do with the Rapture. Everything should be taken in its proper sequence.

lol, in post #146 I did not ask him about Matthew 24:27 I ask him about Matthew 23:39 and when Jesus said the next time would be that they would (see him)...

 

[Nehemiah6]

lol, in post #146 I did not ask him about Matthew 24:27 I ask him about Matthew 23:39 and when Jesus said the next time would be that they would (see him)...

Well what was prophesied in chapter 23:39 will come AFTER what is seen in chapter 24:27.

SECOND COMING
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

GATHERING OF A BELIEVING REMNANT TO ISRAEL
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God. For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness. (Isa 10:20-22)

REDEMPTION AND RESTORATION OF ISRAEL
And the Redeemer [CHRIST] shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever. (Isa 59:20,21)

MILLENNIUM
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[iamsoandso]

In post 147 you used the word prophecy,,,do you see John 5:43 as a prophecy?

 

[Locutus]

MILLENNIUM

For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

1970 years and counting and not one utterance on this from dem.

 

[Nehemiah6]

1970 years and counting and not one utterance on this from dem.

What makes you think that the Millennium is past and we are now in the New Heavens and the New Earth?

 

[iamsoandso]

View attachment 189378

1970 years and counting and not one utterance on this from dem.

lol, you'll have to explain what you mean about the millennial kingdom lasting for 1970 years...

 

[Locutus]

lol, you'll have to explain what you mean about the millennial kingdom lasting for 1970 years...

I wasn't meaning the "millenial" kingdom was lasting 1970 years soandso - I beleive the "mill" end at the destruction of dee temple in da 1st century AD

 

[Nehemiah6]

In post 147 you used the word prophecy,,,do you see John 5:43 as a prophecy?

Sure. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Who is this "another" except the Antichrist:... that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows... And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time [3 1/2 years]... Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. (Dan 7:20,25;8:11)

 

[Locutus]

Sure. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

This is not a prophecy, neither is it about a supposed antichrist.

 

[iamsoandso]

Sure. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Who is this "another" except the Antichrist:... that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows... And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time [3 1/2 years]... Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. (Dan 7:20,25;8:11)

So do you think Jesus returns and sets up the Mill. kingdom and the antichrist rises in it and they believe he is the Messiah or do you think another temple is built in Jerusalem and he rises in it and they believe this antichrist is the Messiah and receives him?

 

[Blik]

I see lots of criticisms of current Gentile Christian methods of relating to Jewish people.

But I didn't see in your response what methods and techniques you personally use to reach Orthodox Jewish people?

If I may butt in, I relate to Jews by speaking of our differences and asking them about them. They all say Christians deny the Torah and that is denying God. Another said we can't be trusted not to kill Jews, these anti Jew posts are an example of Christians relating to Jews.

If you were shown a group of Jews who, as statistics give us their findings, who excelled in science, won Nobel prizes, had more education and money.

Then compare this group to a Christian group who is behind in all those areas, who would you choose to follow?

As we are told in Zech. 8:23 Christians will be hanging around the Jews because they can see God is with them.

Christians know that there are blessings from obedience, but they also know the obedience needs to come from love of God, accepting His spirit within us. So WHY!!! are Christians less obedient than Jews?

 

[Dan_473]

If I may butt in, I relate to Jews by speaking of our differences and asking them about them. They all say Christians deny the Torah and that is denying God. Another said we can't be trusted not to kill Jews, these anti Jew posts are an example of Christians relating to Jews.

If you were shown a group of Jews who, as statistics give us their findings, who excelled in science, won Nobel prizes, had more education and money.

Then compare this group to a Christian group who is behind in all those areas, who would you choose to follow?

As we are told in Zech. 8:23 Christians will be hanging around the Jews because they can see God is with them.

Christians know that there are blessings from obedience, but they also know the obedience needs to come from love of God, accepting His spirit within us. So WHY!!! are Christians less obedient than Jews?

so sounds like you witness to Jews by talking about differences between Christians and Jews with them and asking them questions about how they perceive Christians. Have you been successful using this approach? Have some Jewish people become Believers in Christ by this?

 

[Blik]

so sounds like you witness to Jews by talking about differences between Christians and Jews with them and asking them questions about how they perceive Christians. Have you been successful using this approach? Have some Jewish people become Believers in Christ by this?

I don't think I have been successful, for none have said they now believe in Christ.

I do know I have opened the door to all their minds, except for one couple. We were at a retreat to learn to write our autobiography and a group of 8 Jews attended. One couple let me be friends with them, most kept their distance. At least I astonished this couple by pointing out we worshipped the same God.

When we acknowledge only Christ as our God and ignore the Father we are not only not following truth, but alienating the Jews.

I wonder if success in evangelizing is only when someone accepts what Christ did for us then and there, or is success also when we open the door? That is all I have been able to do.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So do you think Jesus returns and sets up the Mill. kingdom and the antichrist rises in it and they believe he is the Messiah or do you think another temple is built in Jerusalem and he rises in it and they believe this antichrist is the Messiah and receives him?

The sequence of events is as follows:
1. The Great Apostasy in Christendom ( the temple rebuilt in Jerusalem)
2. The Rapture
3. The Antichrist (3 1/2 years of power) -- received by unbelieving Jews as Messiah
4. The Great Tribulation
5. The Second Coming of Christ
6. The Battle of Armageddon
6. The regathering of the Jews to Israel
7. The redemption and restoration of Israel -- a believing remnant to be saved
10. The Millennium -- the true temple of God built at this time
11. The Battle of Gog and Magog.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Where in the bible did Paul make Jews Christians?

ROMANS 2
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

There are other passages which make it crystal clear that within the Church (the Body of Christ) there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Paul rejected his Jewishness altogether in other passages, and rebuked Peter for forgetting this fundamental principle.

 

[Grandpa]

But see your comment makes you no different than the Jews. The Jews believe that obviously obeying G-d's LOVING and PERFECT commands (that are eternal by G-d) are the way to live. And Christian's say "If you don't believe in Jesus, you are hard headed". Who is better when you observe this from the outside? Next question, who or what part of what each group does is actually correct AND under what foundation is this? Now if you are honest while reading this post, maybe you will think differently now.

For anyone can say "Oh yes I have the spirit of the L-rd and now I know better".....Paul says something about Gentiles who do that in Romans 11...

I am here to say Jews are perfect and Christian's are not? No! But I am here to state that every human being has the right to their own way of thinking but if they desire G-d....then truth and the foundation of truth lies with G-d and through His word (and His word is the Torah and the Torah also is Yeshua).

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Is there anything in that verse that is hard to understand?

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The commandments are not Gods perfect and loving commands. The commandments are DEATH and CONDEMNATION to bring you to the end of yourself and to your Saviour.

If you pretend that the commandments are the end of what is good and perfect then you are deceived. If you think it is a good thing for Christians to convert to Judaism then you are encouraging people to get on the path that leads to Death.

Human beings are mostly stupid and stubborn. It is a miracle to come to Christ and be Saved.

The Torah was given by Moses. But Grace and Truth have come by the Lord Jesus Christ. The Torah is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[Blik]

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
.

We are told over and over that sin brings on death, and this death is the curse of the law. The law certainly is not cursed, but sin is a curse. The law points to the sin that, without Christ, is a curse for us.

If the law is cursed we would have to dispose of all of psalms. The entire 119th psalm is about the blessing of the law. We have only one God who speaks with one voice. God doesn't disagree with God. God would not say the law is a blessing in one scripture and that it is a curse in another. If God did, God would not be God and we all would be dammed.

We are told we are to die to sin with Christ and put on the spirit of God. That spirit obeys the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law obeys the legalistic law, also.

 

[iamsoandso]

The sequence of event s is as follows:
1. The Great Apostasy in Christendom ( the temple rebuilt in Jerusalem)
2. The Rapture
3. The Antichrist (3 1/2 years of power) -- received by unbelieving Jews as Messiah
4. The Great Tribulation
5. The Second Coming of Christ
6. The Battle of Armageddon
6. The regathering of the Jews to Israel
7. The redemption and restoration of Israel -- a believing remnant to be saved
10. The Millennium -- the true temple of God built at this time
11. The Battle of Gog and Magog.

Now that's closer because in #1 you see (a) temple is built in Jerusalem and then in #10 you say that the TRUE temple would come. And so you see I think that the next temple built there is not the true one but that it is one man makes in it's place and the man of sin rises in it.
The rapture I think is the friction in that you spotted that the only way John 5:43 would fit is post trib./pre wrath/pre mill....(I have read many threads to see who is preteist or who is pre trib,amill ect.ect.)...I know your pre trib...You know I'm post trib/pre wrath pre mill,,,In post 146 I ask him for a specific purpose(He's neither of the two) and so he needs to know that the next temple is of the beast and not God...it's the one that received the wound(ad70) and was to rise from the pit.

 

[garee]

Where in the bible did Paul make Jews Christians?

Jews are to be Jews and still believe in Yeshua. See that’s the problem. You want Jews to give up the Torah and by church fathers theology.....hence why real Jews hate Christianity. What do you think Christians have done for 2,000 years to the Jews? So that isn’t the way clearly and nor is it biblical.

That’s why Paul’s writings clearly show a “separation” but a spiritual “oneness” in Yeshua. Everyone has a different role. Jews hold “spiritual gifts” like Paul says (Romans 16) this Gentile bring “physical ones”. But that doesn’t make anyone less or more.

God renamed his inward Jew that are reborn of the Spirit, Christians in Acts. They did not name change the name by their own selves.

The name Christian means residents of the city of Christ she is shown as the bride of Christ coming down from the new heavenly Jerusalem named after her founder, Christ.

And all the gifts are spiritual supernatural. But that doesn’t make anyone less or more