Job Chapter 10

[JLG]

- 66 Nehemiah6 :

« There is a good reason why everything is not written in the Bible like a textbook. You are expected to connect the dots. »

- 67 NOV25 :

« God is the one who brings it up, not Satan.

Just read it again and try to forget what the Sunday school pamphlets say. “Sometimes we suffer, we ask God why and he doesn’t answer but remember he never answered Job either…” blah blah blah. This is a lie from hell.

Job did everything short of cursing God. Why, I wish I were never born etc.
The final friend, the young one gives us a hint, essentially saying how dare you question God. Then God speaks answering Job very clearly, for 2 chapters he’s basically saying how dare you question me, we’re you there when I…

Then as I said, Job repents and basically says I had of heard of thee but didn’t know you.

It’s a story of refining by fire not exemplary faith. Read it again. »

- 68 ewq1938 :

« Agreed with everything except this. Job definitely cursed God:

Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

What does it mean to curse someone in the OT hebrew?

1288

01288 barak {baw-rak'}

a primitive root; TWOT - 285; v

AV - bless 302, salute 5, curse 4, blaspheme 2, blessing 2, praised 2,
kneel down 2, congratulate 1, kneel 1, make to kneel 1, misc 8; 330

1) to bless, kneel
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to kneel
1a2) to bless
1b) (Niphal) to be blessed, bless oneself
1c) (Piel) to bless
1d) (Pual) to be blessed, be adored
1e) (Hiphil) to cause to kneel
1f) (Hithpael) to bless oneself
2) (TWOT) to praise, salute, curse

Now, the tense of the verb "curse" in this verse is Piel:

1c) (Piel) to bless

And thus the meaning of the verb is to "bless".

Piel usually expresses an "intensive" or "intentional" action as well as it also implies a repeated action meaning it is usually done more than once. In this case someone will “bless” God more than once.

OT:1288
barak (baw-rak'); a primitive root; to kneel; by implication to bless God (as an act of adoration), and (vice-versa) man (as a benefit); also (by euphemism) to curse (God or the king, as treason):

Lexicon:

"It is properly used of persons, and is transferred to curses and impious words against God." This specific definition for the word in question is found in Job 1:5, 1:11 and Job 2:5.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

So what Satan literally said was:

"he will speak impious words against you"

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
im•pi•ous (im'pe-?s, im-pi'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Lacking reverence; not pious.
2. Lacking due respect or dutifulness: impious toward one's parents.

In today's terms it would mean Job spoke in disrespect to God, and about God.

Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

Charging God foolishly would be equal to cursing/speaking disrespect and impiously toward or about God.

Eventually Job would committ these bad things and sin.

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.


As Job's sons did, so would Job eventually do when his tormenting was more than he could bare. Let's look at how things transpired:

Job 1:19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

Job is holding up very well after some very horrible things! Yet, this does give us a slight hint about what might take place eventually within this story.

Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

Again, very terrible events take place and even his wife thinks he should curse God! But Job does not! Job has not “sinned with his lips”….yet.

Job 3:1 After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.

Now we see that Job is having trouble dealing with what he has been through. He will continue through the rest of the chapter speaking very ill of his life and fortune.

After his friend tries to console him he begins again:

Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes?

Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:

“When I go to bed I should be allowed a safe and pleasant time but, no, God is there to torture me in my sleep!”

Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
Job 9:19 If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:21 Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

“Even if I were innocent, God would prove me wrong. I am not guilty, but I no longer care what happens to me.”

Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.

“God destroys the innocent along with the guilty.”

Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?

“When a good person dies a sudden death, God sits back and laughs.
And who else but God blindfolds the judges, then lets the wicked take over the earth?“


WOAH! Verse 23 is quite a statement by Job! That if a man should die accidentally while being punished, that God would laugh at the trial of an innocent man. This means that Job feels God is unjust and cruel! »

 

[JLG]

- 69 NOV25 :

« I stand corrected, it seems Job did in fact curse God. Appreciate you taking the time to lay this out. I’ve not found many that read Job the way we do. »

It’s always a question of human or God’s level ! Is that so hard to understand that Job is complaining to God and calling him for help ? At the end of the Book, what does God say ? He tells Job human beings can’t understand as God does, they don’t get all the elements ! He doesn’t condemn Job but he condemns his associates because THEY spoke badly of God and of Job and he puts their fate in Job’s hands ! Once again, human level and God’s level ! When we read what’s next about curses and cursing it is clear it has nothing to do with that ! Neither God nor Satan spoke about Job cursing God ! NO WAY !

- 70 :

https://www.learnreligions.com/what-is-a-curse-248646

Curses and Cursing: What Is a Curse?

By Austin Cline

Updated June 25, 2019

A curse is the opposite of a blessing: Whereas a blessing is a pronouncement of good fortune because one is initiated into God’s plans, a curse is a pronouncement of ill fortune because one opposes God’s plans. God may curse a person or a whole nation because of their opposition to God’s will. A priest may curse someone for violating God’s laws. In general, the same people with the authority to bless also have the authority to curse.

Types of Curses

In the Bible, three different Hebrew words are translated as “curse.” The most common is a ritualistic formulation which described as “cursed” those who violate community standards defined by God and tradition. Slightly less common is a word used to invoke evil against anyone who violates a contract or oath. Finally, there are curses which are invoked simply to wish someone ill will, like cursing a neighbor in an argument.

The Purpose

Cursing can be found in most if not all religious traditions around the world. Although the content of these curses may vary, the purpose of curses seems to be remarkably consistent: enforcement of law, assertion of doctrinal orthodoxy, assurance of community stability, harassment of enemies, moral teaching, protection of sacred places or objects, and so forth.

As a Speech Act

A curse communicates information, for example about a person’s social or religious status, but more importantly, it is a “speech act,” which means that it performs a function. When a minister says to a couple, “I now pronounce you man and wife,” he isn’t just communicating something, he is changing the social status of the people before him. Similarly, a curse is a deed which requires an authoritative figure performing the deed and acceptance of this authority by those hearing it.

Curse and Christianity

Although the precise term isn’t generally used in the Christian context, the concept plays a central role in Christian theology. According to Jewish tradition, Adam and Eve are cursed by God for their disobedience. All of humanity, according to Christian tradition, is thus cursed with Original Sin. Jesus, in turn, takes this curse on himself in order to redeem humanity.

As a Sign of Weakness

A “curse” is not something which is issued by someone with military, political, or physical power over the person being cursed. Someone with that sort of power will almost always use it when seeking to maintain order or punish. Curses are used by those without significant social power or who simply lack power over those they wish to curse (such as a stronger military enemy).

 

[JLG]

- 71 Ewq1938 :

« Most don't bother reading the larger middle section where all cursing happens. Seems most read beginning and the end and think Job never sinned against God. At least he was wise enough to repent and it ended well for him. »

- 72 :

Read carefully the article by Austin Cline about what really means curses and cursing in the Bible! It's necessary to be careful about Hebrew and Greek: there are really meaningful (imagine three words)! Definitely impressive! It's like "Na'", it is far more than polite!

 

[JLG]

(JOB CHAPTER 2)

Job became ill. People may say that when things go wrong, it’s bad. But not completely because in such a situation, you can learn a lot especially about the people you know, your family, your friends… Job’s wife is a good example: she tells Job to curse God and die. What a good help indeed! Job’s answer about what she says is clear: we must accept everything from God. It’s not because we are in trouble that we must go away from him. Then you get three men who know Job who come to comfort him. They can’t recognize him meaning he is in real trouble. They see his pain, they weep and stay with him seven days and nights without saying a word. They want to share his condition but they also show respect to him. It is definitely different from the attitude of Job’s wife. The next chapters will show them in a different way!

- 1 GRACE_ambassador :

« Precious friend, did you know that Under GRACE, God Desires
us to be thankful for and rejoice/glory in our tribulations? »
- 2 Nehemiah6 :

« If you carefully read the comments of Job's "friends" they all accused him of having sinned, and therefore having to pay "the price". Even the man who was not included among his friends ended up accusing Job. So no one really showed Job any respect (other than God) who said that Job's friends had not spoken well of God.

And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath. (Job 42:7)

The amazing thing is that Job probably wrote this book (later on) by divine inspiration, hence every word is properly recorded. »

- 3 :

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2010/jun/28/philosophy-judaism

The Book of Job is one of the first documents in history to concentrate solely on how a just G-d can allow the suffering of innocents. Some scholars claim it might have been written in the 5th century BCE; and some traditional Jewish views even claim Moses was the author of the story.

https://www.thomasnelsonbibles.com/blog/who-wrote-the-book-of-job/

Authorship

The author is uncertain. The name of the author is not indicated in the book. That Job himself could not have written all of it is shown by the inclusion of the record of his death (Job 42:17 KJV). Some have suggested that Moses wrote the account. This hypothesis would explain its inclusion in the canon, but it is mere speculation.

- 4 :

In Chapter two, they show proper respect. After, that's another story.

- 5 DavidTree :

« The Book of Job is also Prophetic and is the Revelation from God for the Second Coming of Christ. »

- 6 :

Could you give details?

- 7 DavidTree :

« Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! 2Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. 4Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabbath. 5You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.

Be Patient and Persevering
7Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, waiting patiently for it until it receives the early and latter rain. 8You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord [f]is at hand.

9Do not grumble against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned. Behold, the Judge is standing at the door! 10My brethren, take the prophets, who spoke in the name of the Lord, as an example of suffering and patience. 11Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord—that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.

12But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “Yes” be “Yes,” and your “No,” “No,” lest you fall into judgment.

Meeting Specific Needs
13Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing psalms. 14Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. 17Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain; and it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. 18And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth produced its fruit.

Bring Back the Erring One
19Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. »

 

[JLG]

- 8 Nehemiah6 :

« Yes. They mourned with Job for all his losses. Then they decided that Job must be a sinner and a hypocrite. In their thinking, how could any righteous man be so severely punished? »

- 9 Nehemiah6:

« Why not allow Job to be the writer and God to be the Author who gave Job all the words recorded therein? God singled out Noah, Daniel, and Job as the three righteous men in Ezekiel whose righteousness would not save wicked Israel.

No one knows the authorship for certain, but we know this for a fact -- this book was divinely inspired and is an integral part of the Hebrew canon. And the narrative is definitely not legendary (as some claim). »

- 10 ewq1938 :

« Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

Job sure knows what he is talking about. I hope his friends are taking notes. »

They can’t, they are completely wrong and will be condemned by God for speaking badly about God and Job and he put their fate in Job’s hands : human level and God’s level !

- 11 ewq1938 :

« Job 6:25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
Job 6:26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
Job 6:27 Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
Job 6:28 Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
Job 6:29 Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?

Can anyone answer Jobs question? »

Job is complaining to God and calling him for help ! These aren’t questions !

- 12 ewq1938 :

« Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Fun stuff! »

Definitely : that’s what we can call complaing and calling for help ! Remember if you get into big troubles : fun stuff !

- 13 :

(Yes. They mourned with Job for all his losses. Then they decided that Job must be a sinner and a hypocrite. In their thinking, how could any righteous man be so severely punished?)

Remember the super apostles at the time of Paul or the religious leaders at the time of Jesus.

- 14 :

Sometimes jealousy may push people in some directions! But they received God's condamnation!

- 15 :

There is always something to learn about people’s attitudes, may it be right or wrong ! It may be difficult to understand sometimes but it helps us to reflect and to act in one way or another, remembering how people reacted in different situations. When it is present in our minds we may reflect again and again from time to time and help us to be mentally stronger and staying humble at the same time. We always have the choice and the decision is ours !

- 16 :

Speaking with job would be like opening a book of value, full of all the events of his life!

 

[JLG]

- 17 : DavidTree :

« Which is why we need to always forgive and pray for one another - amen. »

- 18 ewq1938 :

« Yep, lots of value.

Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
Job 7:15 So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
Job 7:16 I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job 7:18 And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?

Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
Job 9:19 If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:21 Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.

Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he? »

Yep, lots of value, a man who is in pieces, who has the patience to listen and answer his associates ! I will never have such a patience ! And I don’t know how he does to keep complaining and asking for help when he is in pieces ! WOW, incredible ! But being part in such non-human issue means you must be someone : there was no one like him on the earth !

- 19 :

Each word has its importance. Each time we look at it and we will see a different aspect. it is a never ending story. It also depends on our mind when we look at it.

- 20 :

God's approval is a lot of work but it is revigorating and an internal burning fire which moves you to action!

- 21 :

Job thought Job had turned his back on him but he was not far from him! Sometimes it is necessary to make just a small effort!

- 22 ewq1938 :

« Not quite. Job thought God was attacking him.

Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause. »

Yes, he had part in a HUGE non-human issue, quite difficult to understand for human beings ! Human level and God’s level !

- 23 :

Well, I was thinking about job waiting for God's answers! That's why he finally decided to stop speaking anymore.
Job 31:35: "My desire is that the Almighty would answer me"
Then God answers Job in Job 38
But Job says he doesn't want to speak anymore:
Job 40:4,5: "I will lay mine hand upon my mouth...but I will not answer...but I will not proceed further"

 

[JLG]

- 24 ewq1938 :

« Yeah, he eventually got it right but spent most of book blaming God for what he was going through. »

Yes, he had part in a HUGE non-human issue, quite difficult to understand for human beings ! Human level and God’s level !

- 25 :

Maybe but remember Job 1:21,22: "...naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly".

- 26 DavidTree :

« I don't see Job blaming God but rather bringing a petition of his suffering and grief whereby he cannot fathom why God did this to him.
Job was correct is saying that God had afflicted him and that he wanted to be heard in a court proceeding, which in fact was taking place, to defend himself against the unrighteous judgment poured out upon him. »

- 27 :

Really good summary! i agree with that

- 28 :

He would think with what he knew! Now the next chapters will tell more and this with details!

- 29 ewq1938 :

« Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes? »

Yes, he had part in a HUGE non-human issue, quite difficult to understand for human beings ! Human level and God’s level !

 

[JLG]

- 30 ewq1938 :

« Job 6:25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
Job 6:26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
Job 6:27 Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
Job 6:28 Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
Job 6:29 Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?

Pride is deceptive. It assures you that you are right, even when you are not. Job cannot yet see how his tongue is full of iniquity and untruth about God but he will be shown the truth. »

Yes, he had part in a HUGE non-human issue, quite difficult to understand for human beings ! Human level and God’s level !

-31 ewq1938 :

« Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.

He will do a lot of that.

Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
Job 7:15 So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.

More accusations against God.

Job 7:16 I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?

Job 7:18 And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?

More accusations against God.

Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.

Here Job accuses God of doing terrible things to him without cause meaning Job thinks he doesn't deserve this and God is responsible.

Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
Job 9:19 If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:21 Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

More accusations against God. »

Yes, he had part in a HUGE non-human issue, quite difficult to understand for human beings ! Human level and God’s level !

 

[JLG]

- 32 Pilgrimshope :

« I’m enjoying just reading along with your thinking and some other peoples thoughts in the threads about job . A lot of good thoughts to go through and consider

thanks for taking the time to post these threads I think job has alot of important thinking for Christians in it .

Anyways I just wanted you to know I appreciate the time you have spent on this subject in your op , and have been enjoying just reading along with some of the constructive ideas and thinking from you and others it’s often a blessing to do so in the Bdf

God bless you ! »

- 33 :

Thanks a lot. I have never been so far but it takes more time! Once again I'm used to using the interlinear translation (English and Hebrew / English and Greek) but I'm not used to using dictionaries to get deeper! And the more I do it the more I realize how misleading it can be because you just get a version of one translator and it's quite easy to miss the idea! But that's how the world is and it's not going to change until God decides so, but that is another story! Just think about two words "na'" and friends (once again there are three different levels of friendship which are completely different and I could go on and on...)

- 34 :

Well, you speak about job Chapter 6,7 and 9. I will speak about them. Here it's Chapter 2 so i will first speak about Chapter 2 as I spoke again about Chapter 1 thinking about what ewq1938 and DavidTree said. Once again, for god there is no one like Job on Earth! That's a big deal! It's something we need to keep in mind to understand the rest of the Book! And additionally, god is certain about Job's integrity and he wants to show it to everybody including the angels! yes contrary to what Satan says you can find human beings who can be faithful! of course, we are not asked to be like Job, many can go away and go back, we can fall and stand again, no problem! Think about Paul! He thought he was doing a great job persecuting Jesus' disciples but he was fighting against God and he was an active believer but he was blind!
remember Job 2:9,10:

- 35 :

What does Job’s wife tells him : Curse God and die.
What does Job answers her : she speaks like a foolish woman. We must accept what is good and bad from God !
« In all this did not Job sin with his lips »
Do you hear the echo in Chapter one and Chapter two?

- 36 Studentoftheword

« My view

Job 2 is a very Important Book as it shows us again How the Enemy (who is Satan ) is allowed by God to infiltrate our lives ----Satan actually put a challenge in God's hands and because God knows just how Faithful Job is and He knows Job will remain Faithful to all Satan can dish out even taking his children God allows Satan his challenge -----

Satan said to God ---- you have given Job everything and have a hedge of protection around him so he is a faithful servant --if all of what he has is taken away he will surly Curse you to your face ------

How wrong Satan was -----Job never sinned once during his afflictions

This 2nd Book of Job in my view is is a great show of Faithful loyalty to God even in the midst of unspeakable suffering -----we are all fine and fuzzy liking or loving God when all is going great in our lives but how many of us turn and then blame God for the sufferings or bad circumstances that come our way forgetting there is a enemy loose in our midst and knowing how to keep this enemy at bay -

Satan cannot do anything without God's approval ---and God allows Satan to test our Faith ---If Satan can get you to turn from your faith and trust that God is with you when bad situations and trials come your way Satan has won you over from God and that is Satan main goal to keep you from God and His word ----

We are in a Spiritual war every minute of every day -----Job learned that first hand ------Satan lost his soul winning battle with Job ---His Faith was grounded and rooted in God and we should take note in Job's complete Faith and trust in God alone -----

God restored Job with more than he had in the end including his children that Satan took from him --

Even Job's friends showed their ignorance of their lack of spiritual knowledge and understanding of how God works in peoples lives ----they thought Job must have sinned against God and was being punished

Jesus was tempted by Satan Himself -----and so will we be ----we need to be like Job ---grounded and rooted in our Faith and trust in God --and know He is always present in whatever we are going through and will bring us to a good end »

 

[JLG]

- 37 :

« Challenge » is The Proper Word and « God knows job will remain faithful ».
Right, no sin « during his affliction ».
Right, « unspeakable suffering »
Definitely, « fine and fuzzy » : think of the doctor and the patient !
Great definition : « Spiritual war every minute of every day ».
Right, « Even Job's friends showed their ignorance of their lack of spiritual knowledge and understanding of how God works in peoples lives ----they thought Job must have sinned against God and was being punished »
Definitely, « we need to be like Job ---grounded and rooted in our Faith and trust in God ».

Thanks for your contribution and great job, I couldn’t have found better words !

- 38 :

Can human beings stay faithful to God or can they be bought? For Satan all human beings can be bought, it's just a question of price! In the case of job, he made all possible efforts to show he was right! Think about the angels who went down to the Earth and those who stayed in Heaven, according to the Bible of course!

- 39 :

When we read a book in the Bible dealing with the life of someone, we need not to forget the whole context and the whole book! And each time we read it again we may grasp something we didn't notice before!

- 40 Studentofthe word :

« I totally agree with you here -- -JLG---understanding the Context of the Scripture and asking the Holy Spirit for guidance is important to the understanding of what the Scripture is really conveying to us ----we are all at different levels of Faith and understanding and I believe the Holy Spirit meets us where we are in our walk with Christ --and will gives up information that we are able to understand -----New Christians are fed milk ----mature Christians are fed solid food -----to much revelation when we are not prepared for it can bring confusion not understanding ----my view -- »

- 41 :

Perfectly said! I like "our walk with Christ", "fed milk" and "fed solid food": a lot to meditate even if it's difficult!

 

[JLG]

(JOB CHAPTER 3 )

Expressing his pain, Job says he would have preferred to die at birth so he would be sleeping and at rest instead of suffering. A chapter with 26 verses to express the pain of a man who had everything and lost everything (even his good health). In fact, there is no word to express such a condition of mind and which can tell a lot of what comes next.

- 1 tourist :

« Job was in a sad state, that's for sure. Job is a classic case study of perseverance and courage to continue on despite unrelenting phyical pain and mental anguish. »

- 2 :

Do "sad state" and "classic case study" define exactly what Job was faced with remembering the fact that he was doing his best to be fathful to God and that everybody was against him? Do you think we can understand all what is involved in the book of Job having in mind a "sad state" and a "classic case study"? Can we read only once the book of Job to understand his feelings and the relationship he had with God? Do you think a child and a teenager and an adult and an old person would understand the book in the same way? Would it be the same for someone who has a normal life and for someone who is completely lost? Don't you think it is necessary to go beyond the words to understand it and go deep into your heart and mind?

- 3 tourist :

« I probably have read the entire book of Job at least 15 times. How would you define exactly what Job was faced with? »

- 4 :

Job lost all his belongings, his children, everybody was against him, he had big health problems, he couldn’t see any escape except through death, he thought God had abandoned him: it was a total and complete desperation. Think about someone who is completely lost and commit suicide, even if he is a real believer and faithful!

- 5 justhumanbeing :

« I read the book of Job and finished reading it a few days back. I may have read the book of Job a couple of times before. It's the account of a man who has lost everything and is hopeless yet refuses to put blame on God for what has happened to Him. Instead, in that time of frustration he starts to curse himself and mourns his life situation. He was not however suicidal even at that time when He lost everything. He was a man of faith. He didn't give up belief in God.

He is confronted by his friends who all accuse him of being a sinner and urging him to repent for his sins. While, to Job's understanding, he has done nothing wrong. So, he seeks justice from God for his condition. He seeks the end also from God's hands. Job might have been hopeless and given up all hope. But He looked for an end to his troubles one way or another from God. And He waited, endured and his prayer was answered in a positive way.

This is an example that no pain and no suffering, no matter how small or how great is permanent. As long as the person who suffers and waits for an answer from God, that answer will come at the right time. God is never too early or too late in answering our prayer. God answers our prayers at exactly the right time. Of course, God answers our prayers at His time. So all we have to do is ask God what we need and patiently wait. If you're a human being, no matter who you are, you will suffer. In that time of suffering, you offer your suffering to God and wait for relief and refuge from God. The answer for your prayers will come. That's what Job's story is about. »

- 6 DavidTree :

« And for this EXACT reason God raised Job up for this Test so that Job may receive the GLORY that followed.

Job is a Prophet and his suffering without failing is the PROPHECY for the "Time of Testing that shall come upon the whole world"

James 5:7-11
A.) Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord’s coming.
See how the farmer awaits the precious fruit of the soil—how patient he is for the fall and spring rains.You, too, be patient and strengthen your hearts, because the Lord’s coming is near. Do not complain about one another, brothers, so that you will not be judged. Look, the Judge is standing at the door!

B.) Brothers, as an example of patience in affliction, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. See how blessed we consider those who have persevered.
C.) You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen the outcome from the Lord. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy.

Know your ABC's »

 

[JLG]

- 7 :

Really a good and deep summary. Have you evolved in your perception of the Book of Job and of Job’s attitude according to the different events happening to him? Did you wait a lot between your different readings of the Book? I like the expression “man of faith”, “Job’s understanding”, “waiting for an answer of God”, but a positive waiting because while there is no answer, he tries to speak to God as if in a prayer, he tries to analyze the situation, he tries to express himself and speak to God. I also like “at the right time” and “His time”. Waiting doesn’t mean we also have to struggle and make efforts when it’s possible.

- 8 :

"man of faith" and "he didn't give up belief in God" tell us a lot about the man Job and why God says there was no one like him on Earth when he was alive. But it also gives us a lot of information of how to develop a strong relationship with God, something which has to be kept alive!

- 9 justhumanbeing :

« That's true. We do need that strong relationship with Jesus.

I relate to the book of Job a lot because I've suffered a lot in my life. And I've often pondered over the conversation of Job and God's reply and the dialogue with his friends.

I've read the book of Job when I was a kid and I know the story. I've had a troubled family life right from a young age, so when I read the Bible, I read like I'm looking for answers no one would tell me.

I'm glad that my interpretation is appealing to you. I'm happy if what I shared with you was of help.

The last time I read the book of Job, I did really immerse myself. I read the book of Job, four sides a day. It's God's grace that I was able to read that much at that time. Normally I don't read the Bible like that. But my need was dire at the time. So, that's that. »

yes immersion !

- 10 :

That’s the difference between a doctor who knows a disease because of what he studied at University and someone who lives the disease through his own body or

by helping a member of his family in his day to day life. Which understanding will you trust more : the doctor or the person who suffers. That’s also why Jesus understand better human beings because he went down and lived and suffered as a human being !

« My need was dire at the time »

It’s good to hear Job as a faithful man knowing he has done nothing wrong and it’s good to hear God’s final judgement : Job is paid back and God leaves Job’s associates in Job’s hands. It leaves no doubt about Job’s integrity and attitude or behavior !

- 11 :

A story of a simple man yet an incredible one and the presence of his associates highlights the rare personality of Job.

- 12 :

"immersion": deep mental nvolvement in something"
That's how we get to understand the Bible, reflecting daily, thinking again and again to get it right! Not an easy job because it requires a lot of energy and strong will and humility but also listening to what others have to say!

- 13 :

« I'm looking for answers no one would tell me. »
It’s like an echo which is repeated again and again and may die if you are not careful. If you are careful the echo may grow and grow like a mountain, starting from youth to adulthood !

- 14 :

Expressing his pain is a way to recover. but only when it's the right time. Sometimes we can't and then it's necessary to wait for the right time to speak with the right person!

- 15 justhumanbeing :

« What you say is true. Sometimes you do have a person you can talk to. Sometimes, you don't. God is always there to approach for His children. »

- 16 :

Once I went to see a friend. He was angry against other people i knew. it was like a storm. I don't know why but i pushed him so his anger could leave him and it worked! He became like a sheep! But later he told he thought at the time he wanted to kill me! Right time! If it hadn't be the right time I would have had to get away! Who knows!

- 17 :

Chapter 3: There is no blame! Job just wants to die: he thinks he would happy while asleep !

- 18 :

Jesus speaks of death as if we were sleeping: same for Job!

- 19 studentoftheword :

« Job is a man of very Strong Faith in God ---This is so important for us to Note as we are to grow in our Faith walk with God ----and Job is such a Great example of what strong faith is and a great example of keeping that Faith in God even as we endure such sufferings in our lives ------

His Faith had deep roots that grounded his trust in God ------and that should be our goal as well so we can endure all that comes against us --- »

- 20 :

Well said, "very Strong Faith in God"..."deep roots that grounded his trust in God"
You are completely right, he built up his faith and time is necessary and studying the Bible and trying to get good information from the good examples of the Bible but also from the bad examples and you get many of both! And try to live according to them! Read and read again and immerse ourselves in their whole lifes not only pieces! And check by ourselves like the people of Beroea according to Acts 17:11: "These were more noble than those in thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

 

[JLG]

- 21 Blade :

"And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before"
Christ came "he has sent me to proclaim deliverance to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind to release the oppressed"

"So if the Son makes you free, then you are unquestionably free."

To apply this to today.. its ignoring OT promises.. I can see them now.. and then what Christ already did. He already set you free.. He already give you all power all authority over the enemy. His kingdom is not divided. They made fun of Christ for this.. .. He made them sick then goes around healing them. You can go do anything bad you want and guess what.. God allowed it. He never told you to do it.. never gave you permission yet seems He did nothing what so ever to stop it huh. Satan is the god of this world.

Everything Job went through God already gave an answer to. That woman that just believed..her faith that all she had to do was touch His clothes. He told her your faith has made you whole. Whos faith? Did not Peter and John also in Acts tell us.. we didn't do this.. it was FAITH in that name. See Christ already came set the captive free. Satan has no right to do that unless WE allow it. So what ever it is.. find the promise that GOD already spoke.. then no matter what you see hear or feel.. THAT is the answer. That is what you show people that are suffering hurting.. not because of GOD allowing it <--not written. You can pray seek and ASK GOD what He meant at any time.. yeah there ya go. God knows you already.. He knew you from the start..before all this was. He knows how faithful you are will be.. when you fall or not. Yeah there is nothing He already does not know about you. He knows what you can stand against and what you cant. The enemy ..he comes to steal kill and destroy. You were promised up to 70 years by GOD! Hold GOD to His word. Sorry not here to offend.

I understand looking at this.. the faith what not.. oh praise GOD. its just the answers always shines.. its like He says to me focus on the answer.. to fully understand this.. comes ONLY by the sweet holy Spirit »

- 22 :

Do you think he knew about King Saul, King David and king Solomon?

 

[JLG]

(CHAPTER 4)

Eliphaz speaks to Job:
- Wilt thou be grieved? (Job 4:2)
- Remember, I pray thee (“na’”), who [ever] perished, being innocent? Or where were the righteous cut off? (Job 4:7)
We are probably not living in the same world: you can be a good or a bad person and die suddenly of an accident, of a disease, just walk and die because of a lost bullet, or because you are at the wrong place at the wrong time. It happens every day.
- Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same (Job 4:8)
When we read the Bible, there are many examples of the contrary.
Then a spirit speaks to him in a vision when he sleeps, accusing Job (Job 4:12-21)
What an encouragement, indeed!
The conclusion of this chapter: many die without wisdom!
Does Job have no wisdom? He was apparently able to help many people as Eliphaz recognizes it at the beginning!

- 1 DavidTree :

« The three 'friends' of Job are todays Laeodician christians, the "name it and claim it" and "if you just had faith" bunch.
i have been to their churches and they preach that Job was in sin.
That his sin was fear - "the thing Job feared came upon him"

They disregard the fact that God declares Job "blameless".

Those who preach the lie of 'pre-trib' rapture are also of the "three friends" of Job.

Today, many are suffering, some of it can be attributed to error/sin/ bad choices and yet many others are suffering as Job, where there is no 'blame' to be pinned upon them.
The suffering of the Brethren who are under assault by satan and his angels and this present evil world.

So when we could bear it no longer, we were willing to be left on our own in Athens.
We sent Timothy, our brother and fellow worker for God, in the gospel of Christ,
to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, so that none of you would be shaken by these trials.
For you know that we are destined for this.
Indeed, when we were with you, we kept warning you that we would suffer persecution; and as you know, it has come to pass. For this reason, when I could bear it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith, for fear that the tempter had somehow tempted you and caused our labor to be in vain.
1 Thessalonians 3:1-5 »

- 2 :

“They disregard the fact that God declares Job "blameless".”

Definitely right: the conclusion of the Book of Job is essential. We mustn’t forget that God’s vision is different from ours and that we are often short-sighted. One of our problems is related to time, our lives don’t last long, our experience is

limited. Job also lived longer than us according to the Bible.

Q: #177. How old was Job when his suffering occurred?
By: Steve Shirley

A: As with the previous question How long did Job suffer?, we cannot know for sure from the Bible. However, we can make a few inferences based upon what we read in Job.
First, Job was old enough to be married (Job 2:9)(Job 19:17)(Job 31:10).
Second, he had 10 children (Job 1:2). In addition, it appears that these 10 children were adults because they each had their own homes (Job 1:4), and Job made sin sacrifices for each of them (Job 1:5).
*** Note: Although the sacrificial system for sin had not yet been established in Job’s time, sacrifice for sin was not needed until a child reached 20 years old (Ex 30:14-15).
Third, Job had built a reputation as “the greatest of all the men of the east” (Job 1:3). This takes time.
Fourth, after his trials, Job was still young enough to father 10 more children (Job 42:13).
Now, keeping these facts in mind, let us look at tradition. Jewish tradition holds that Job’s latter years were twice his former years. If this is true, and the Bible says that Job lived 140 years after his trials (Job 42:16), then Job would have been about 70 when his trials occurred. The LXX, or Septuagint (Q: #178) also appears to confirm this.
This seems to fit well with our facts above, and also makes sense from several other points of view as well.
For one, after his trials, God gave Job double the number of livestock that were taken from him (Job 1:3)(Job 42:12). (Job 42:16) continues, saying that Job lived for 140 years after his trials. If Job was 70 at the time his trials began, and lived for 140 years after them, then God also gave Job double the years to live. This being the case, he would have lived to be 210 years old.
According to most scholars, the book of Job should be placed chronologically near the beginning of Genesis, just before Abraham. If this is true, then Terah, Abraham’s father, would have been living at the same time as Job, and lived to almost the same age: 205 (Gen 11:32).
*** Note: From the flood onward, people lived shorter and shorter lives. Abraham lived to be 175 (Gen 25:7). By the time of the Psalmists, a normal old age was about the same as ours today: 70-80 years old (Ps 90:10).
Finally, I believe that it is also important to consider (Job 42:16), which says that Job lived to see 4 generations of children and grandchildren during the 140 years of life after his trials. Now I am FAR from being a math expert, but as I see it, if you run the math, and figure out when each of these generations might have had children, and assume that it was in line with when Job had his first ten children, it also points to an age of about 70 for when Job may have faced his trials. (Or maybe not)

At any rate, in my opinion, I do believe that based on the above, Job was probably in about the first third of his life, or 70, when his trials began.

https://jesusalive.cc/jobs-age-when-suffering/

 

[JLG]

- 3 DavidTree :

« Notice how God placed His Signature on this with the number of years(if correct) are true.

If Job was 70 when the trials began or accomplished - and he lived for another 140 years = 210 years

That is three 7's = 70 + 70 + 70 = 210 = 3 which is the Number of Elohim »

- 4

When getting older we can get more wisdom except the fact we have shorter lives compared to some men in the Bible. And many people who played an important part in the Bible were trained through years of hard life to get ready for having heavy responsibilities!

- 5 :

Every time it seems more and more difficult for youngsters to understand old people and look for their long experience!

https://www.bethesdaseniorliving.com/blog/what-scripture-says-about-aging-in-grace-wisdom

WHAT SCRIPTURE SAYS ABOUT AGING IN GRACE & WISDOM

« Many adults struggle with the aging process, but growing older has numerous benefits. Each day, you wake up with more knowledge than you had yesterday. Your wisdom helps you connect with fellow seniors, but it also makes you an inspiration for younger generations. As you progress through your golden years, cast your fears aside and remember what Scripture says about aging gracefully. »

- 6 :

it would be an interesting encounter to be able to sit down with Job and listens to him about his relationship with god and about all his experience of life. Just listening at first and then the questions would suddenly be numerous! Real human experience!

- 7 :

When job got into trouble, he was old meaning he was mature and with a lot of experience; he was able to survive and kept faithful to God. We have a lot to learn again and again especially when we are in trouble taking into account all the events he had to deal with.

- 8 Oblio :

« They say that Job sinned because of fear. What do they have to say about the fear of the Lord? Crickets, that's what. Job is a hero of mine. Job loved and revered the Lord and didn't want to hurt his Father's feelings. Yeshua says, "If you love Me, you'll obey me."
Taking pieces of the word here and there and making a "doctrine" out of it to suit one's purposes is harmful to others. I want no part of it. »

- 9 :

yes, you are right! I don't see any fear in Job's attitude. On the contrary, he was always a fighter and he answered to those who attacked him. fearless I would say except towards God. yes, only fear of God. Is that a sin?

- 10 Oblio :

« It's an old word, the meaning of which has changed in some contexts. I'd say that Job revered and respected God. Perhaps a reverential awe. I recognize it, as He has allowed me to have it, too! He is awesome beyond words! He loves me so much, I hate hurting His feelings. Even though I still do. And yet He never turns away from me! He's far better than we deserve! »

- 11 :

« He's far better than we deserve! »

or if i say it in other words, we must work hard to deserve HIS CONFIDENCE!

- 12 DavidTree :

« And the beautiful wisdom that comes from those who have aged in Christ.

When Israel reached it's low point in spiritual adultery against God - the Lord said: "women and children will rule over you".

The complete opposite of wisdom. »

- 13 DavidTree :

« No Dear Brother, "the Fear of God" is essential for us and for our protection.

Thus says the Lord:

“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
Isaiah 66 »

- 14 Oblio :

« Speak for yourself...Yeshua's my shoe-in! »

- 15 :

Yes, Joshua is also a really good example when you think of two who had to stand against all the Jews! impressive! But when you speak of the bible you have to start somewhere! And "shoe-in" is a good expression too!

Where is the house that you will build Me?
it reminds me of the Biblical passage dealing with the house built on rock or on sand!

I like "beautiful wisdom"! there is nothing better when connected to humility! Great!

Well, a good king and the Jews were serving God, a bad king and they turned their backs on him! The problem: most of the Jewish kings were bad! But Abraham was a friend of God!

Whatever we see, we always have to find something positive which can move us and act to feel alive!

- 16 Oblio :

« I like Job...he's one of my favorites! »

- 17 :

When writing about Job and what what is in connection with him, I am still thinking about the next one I am going to speak about! Everyone is different, not better but through his own experience and way of life, we make comparisons and we may ask ourselves he would have done in such a situation! And you need to wait for the right time!

- 18 Oblio :

« I had everything...I lost everything.
"The Lord gives...the Lord takes away...blessed be the name of the Lord!"
I will yet see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living!
He made promises to me that haven't happened yet, so that means I'm not going to die.
It's impossible for me to die yet...He is faithful!

My dad's nickname was Job. »

- 19 :

Had he anything in common with Job? Or why this nickname if it's not too personal?

- 20 Oblio :

« He was wise...he was a godly man, though throughout his younger years, he chose not to believe. Or so he said. He went to war with his four best friends and was the only one to return. Almost his whole family was wiped out by heart disease...I miss him.
His first-born, Frank, died during birth. His second-born, Norman, was born a year to the day later.
He was a good man. He was a good soldier to the end. I wish I'd known him better, but, as a teenage warrior, he saw a lot of stuff.
The Lord is faithful to my family. »

 

[JLG]

- 21 :

Ok, "wise...godly...lost his family because of heart disease...first-born dead" and problems related to experience in war. i understand the nickname. We don't know anything about Job's youth. That's the difference with my new choice: Daniel! it's difficult to deal with a father who is a soldier especially when he is not present because of his job. And when he has to fight, you never know if he comes back. The mother has to be both father and mother to educate her children. I have an uncle who was in the navy with three children. He was often away. Hard job for the mother. We often find that life is difficult especially in this modern world.

- 22 Oblio :

« I like Daniel...a lot! »

- 23 :

Strong personality too! Wise and faithful! Close to God too! We don't have a lot of his youth but at least we get some information! TheBible can't speak about everybody's life but i think readers of the Bible may appreciate it when they want to get into the character's mind. Thus, it is possible to follow them, they can see them grow. The character is then more real, more expressive and more alive! Someone we can keep in our mind!

- 24 Oblio :

« Two of my recent compositions are from Daniel. Powerful and timely scripture. »

- 25 :

On this site? If it's the case can you give me the titles, so I can have a look! Thanks in advance.

- 26 Oblio :

« Oh, I should've elaborated. I meant songs. I used to be a worship leader, but lately, I've been having a personal revival and have been on a writing spree. I don't know if anyone else will ever hear them, but He does, and that's what matters most! He's the best! Lol »

- 27 :

Could you put the songs on my page about DANIEL CHAPTER ONE before I write about the next chapters. it would mean a new experience to write about Daniel reading and thinking about the words or expressions you use in the texts of your songs! I would also listen to the echoes in my mind!

 

[JLG]

Chapter 4 : Eliphaz speaks about Job : he says he is now in the same situation of the people he helped ! Eliphaz doesn’t seem to understand why he feels as he feels ! Isn’t it childish ! We can imagine he never was in big trouble ! He speaks about Job’s way of integrity meaning he is wrong ! Then the rest is of the same style ! I would say blah blah blah !

Every personal situation is personal! there are different levels of despair! The more we learn about the universe the more we we realize it's bigger and it is the same with the microscope, there is always something smaller! We can compare our brain to the univerve if we compare the number of our neurons and the number of galaxies! And the universe keeps growing and expanding: there is no sense if we don't do the same with our brain: if we want to feel alive, we need to learn and there is no limit to learning!

It's the same with the Bible: the more we read, the more we learn and there is a lot to learn! And doing it chapter by chapter and coming back to each chapter and discussing it whatever we may say, it improves our knowledge! Even the apostles had to wait for Jesus' death to understand more, even if they were close to him, sharing everything day after day and Jesus had to repeat again and again to improve their understanding!

 

[JLG]

(JOB CHAPTER 5)

- “If there any that answer thee” (Job 5:1)
- “wrath”, “envy” (Job5:2)
- “the foolish” (Job5:3)
- “yet man is born unto trouble” (Job 5:4)
- “happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty” (Job 5:17)
- (Job 5: 19-27)
is that all about Job? Is that Job’s situation? Is that conforting? Is that respect for an old and faithful man who helped many people who were in trouble? I wouldn’t do that if I wanted to help a real friend! I would shup up instead of saying these words! What a shame!
We remember Job's name but who remembers his associates' names?

- 1 peldom10 :

« We can look them up...what is the point for the effort? »

- 2 Gideon300

« Why bother to look them up? Their contribution, apart from Elihu, is far from edifying. »

- 3 :

in the Bible, there are many good and bad examples. Both are useful to develop a good relationship with God. Some people go from badness to goodness and vice versa. Thinking of both types of examples help us understand where we are. it is also a good way to be careful. We also learn lessons.

Remember the Bible: we can find many good and bad examples. Both types are lessons for us. Really good ones and really bad ones!

Job's associates would have been more helpful by shutting their mouths! Sometimes it is better to speak, sometimes it is better to listen and keep quiet. There is a time for everything and learning to know what to do at the right time is precious!

"Why bother": depending on mentality, people are most interested by differents subjects: I understand. But by looking at different points of view help us renew our way of thinking: is it the same if you read the bible in your native language or a diffefrent one? If you know different languages, each language will help you open differents doors and broaden your understanding. When we get older, using what we know is not sufficient, we need to learn more and more to diversify the connections between the neurons: it's not the quantity of neurons which is important, it's the quantity of connections between them!

Who has never been in trouble? then you need to pick yourself up! And Job was help by God!

And in reading the Bible about good examples such as Job, we may find close to them and follow their path and their thoughts!

Chapter 5 : According to Eliphaz Job must listen to them and accept it ! « how humble he is ! ». It’s a joke when you think about job’s mental and physical conditions ! He is completely down !

There is a time to listen and there is a time to speak! Some people prefer to speak to themselves silently, others using words! i like to do both because they are two ways of looking for a solution and once again, one may be more powerful depending on the time!

How can Job stay quiet listening to such men? That's a wonder!

 

[JLG]

- 4 Dino246 :

« You seem to be adding comments merely to bump your own threads to the front if the queue. In short, you’re hogging the forum. Please stop. »

- 5 :

I have just check the number of threads you have in the first ten pages of the forum: one thread! In my case, at the moment it's 15 threads in the first two or three pages! I'm not here to sleep! I spend a lot of time to make these threads alive to make people reacts!
I check all the time if people answer! Many need time to start to write something! I don't want to miss an interesting idea! I have no time to waste for such childish comment! so please stop it! I'm not Job and I don't have his patience! Thank you!

(JOB CHAPTER 6)

That’s too much for Job: he wants to die and he asks God to help him die: he doesn’t see any hope! Death is associated to comfort, joy. He doesn’t know if he can wait for it! Even his family is of no hope! Job says that his associates are of no hope for him! On the contrary! He is desperate, he needs comfort!
Job 6:27: “ye dig a pit for your friend”: The image is clear!
He asks them for help but they don’t care, they push him in the pit!

What would you do to comfort a friend? And someone who wants to die and is hopeless?

would you push him into the pit?

or ask someone's help?

Sometimes it is necessary to go down before going up for a new start. When we have a quiet life we may forget what is important. it's like sleeping! Or think about all the "old people" who live in old people houses or at home but they are alone, they just sleep and eat waiting for death, having no project. But it's not because you are "old" that you are finished! There is always something to learn, to make you happy! And anyway what does that mean being old! When you are active you feel young!

Thanks to ewq1938, I have to spend more time on this chapter to put it right !

Chapter 6 : At the beginning of the Chapter he explains how bad he feels ! And that’s the reason why he speaks so : look at the end of verse 3 : he speaks about impetuous words or wild talk ! It is not pride ! We can take our personal example when we feel bad, I’m not even saying at Job’s level, how our words can go further than our thoughts ! And it is not pride ! If we think of verse 4, we must connect with what comes before and after ! Verse 5 : will you cry out there is no need, when you are in the pit you need to cry louder ! You may think it is not a proper way, but again imagine yourself in a very bad situation ! Verse 8,9,10 : he keeps asking God for death ! Second part of verse 10 : « For i have not concealed the words of the Holy One ». Think of verse 11 : he doesn’t know if he is able to wait for death ! To express his mental condition, he explains that even his own family has abandoned him ! Verse 24, 25: he is asking his associates to teach him and to make him understand his mistakes ! But if they just reprove him, it is of no help ! Verse 26,27 : here are hard words but true ones :
« Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind ? »
« Yea, je overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend. »

Wait a bit for the next chapters ! It is hard work and time consuming work !

What is easier: speak when we feel bad or say nothing? When we speak and / or act, does it mean we are asking for help and / or we are trying to help ourselves?

Job keeps quiet: the only thing he does is DEATH!

 

[JLG]

(DANIEL CHAPTER 7)

Thanks to ewq1938, I have to spend more time on this chapter to put it right !
Chapter 7:1-10 : Is that the cry of someone’s despair or of someone’s despair :
He can’t breathe properly daily, I don’t know how to describe the condition of his flesh, he has no hope, his life is like wind, there is no more happiness just pain, That’s why, when he can still breathe, he will keep complaining : is that wrong when you only get anguish and distress ? Is that pride ? Yes, he is complaining, but who would not do the same ? (Job 7:11)
Verses 12-15 : Imagine someone who prefers to die because he can’t bear his own body ? Imagine his state of mind at night ? Won’t he have nightmares ? He can’t even rest !
Verses 16-21 : Job doesn’t understand what is happening to him ! God has always blessed him ! And now everything goes wrong ! He wants to die ! The only thing left to him is the will of complaining ? What a strong will ? In fact, he is asking God for help ? He is asking God why he doesn’t pardon his transgression if he sinned against him ! Is that pride or humility despite his state of mind ?

Can we really understand people when they suffer extremely, mentally or physically or both? or do we have to suffer the same conditions?

Sometimes when things go wrong, we don't find the strength to speak or fight, but Job is a fighter because he knows he is faithful to God and he won't let people say the contrary! So if that means being proud, i want to be proud like that!

Have you ever been lost mentally, Have you ever tried to help someone who was lost mentally? And when it's someone who is close to you?

years after years? Especially when this person is old and it can only be worse? how will you feel?

- 1 Combinatorics :

« What i think about that is that people who are "lost mentally" have just been lied to, and really nothing, if anything much at all, more. In modern secular times, most people are being taught, as I was myself in school, that "it" is really all just a matter of perspective, and that by study, reading, travel, and much experience at normal labor, you can master all the knowledge and if you live long enough, obtain enough experience to judge truly. Most likely, that is false, based on study I have done of the theories of really rich idle people who believe that they can solve the societies problems and control individuals.
Lost mentally? I would say that's almost always a case of the person having ben lied to be close associates he trusted, in spite of the fact that I also belie in free will and am sure that some people use it to commit crimes. However, I'd say that people who deliberately decided to believe in lies almost always shut the deeper and more complex truth out, and will because of deliberate personal resole, not appear lost. »

- 2 :

They say rich people want to solve the societies problems ? Control individuals ? Definitely, that’s human history ! But they usually don't care about the societies problems! ok so you don't really believe that people can be lost mentally, but what about Job, what was his state of mind in this case?

I would never be able to do like Job, I don't have the patience! I am never been used to complaining whatever may happen but it would have been impossible for me to listen again and again to the same blah blah! Definitely impossible! And it's not going to change!

- 3 Combinatorics :

« Job's state of mind? I think the story of Job is more about faith, which is more a condition of the soul than a state of mind. Job was a victim of Satan, and he lost all his family and property, was tortured, and his "friends" were really unsympathetic. I don't think he was mentally lost, though. Someone who was actually mentally lost would be someone with no real access to reliable

information. If you knew something and decided to believe something that you knew wasn't even true, you wouldn't be lost, you'd be someone who made a bad decision. »

- 4 :

What it feels like being lost?
“Feeling lost feels a lot like depression*,” said Carolyn Ferreira, Psy. D, a psychologist in Bend, Ore., who helps people rebuild relationships and recover from trauma and addictions. You might feel unmotivated and uninterested in your hobbies, she said. You might feel “like life is meaningless.”3 sept. 2017

That's your way, ok. But apparently, people may misunderstand the Book of Job, not understanding why he speaks the way he speaks whereas all the time he explains why he speaks how he speaks that is complaining. It's his way to call God for help! But every time he says how he feels meaning really bad because he wants to die. You may have faith but sometimes when you are in such a state of mind you want to die. And for many if they don't reach this state of mind, they won't understand why a Christian may want to die and sometimes commit suicide!

Anyway, I am now putting together all what was said about Job to put it in one thread pretty soon. But it's a lot of work!