John 6:37

[crossnote]

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
(John 6:37)KJV

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
(Joh 6:37)ESV


Looking at this verse I can only conclude that since not everyone is saved (universalism) then only those that the Father gives the Son will come to the Son.
The strange notion of God passively looking down a corridor of time and seeing who will choose His Son and then choosing him on that basis flies against the clear and natural reading of John 6:37.

John 6:37 is supported by other verses including this similar verse...
And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (Joh 6:65)

 

[jimmydiggs]

Looking at this verse I can only conclude that since not everyone is saved (universalism) then only those that the Father gives the Son will come to the Son.
The strange notion of God passively looking down a corridor of time and seeing who will choose His Son and then choosing him on that basis flies against the clear and natural reading of John 6:37.

It is also more fatalistic than even many a hyper-Calvinist.

 

[Abiding]

The verses are fine and true. Then comes the private interpretation.
Question is, are there requirements given for salvation in the bible?
Ones that God has commanded?

God will never give the Son anyone that hasnt followed those commands.
And if that doesnt fit for ya. Oh well.

 

[crossnote]

The verses are fine and true. Then comes the private interpretation.
Question is, are there requirements given for salvation in the bible?
Ones that God has commanded?

God will never give the Son anyone that hasnt followed those commands.
And if that doesnt fit for ya. Oh well.

Requirements? Such as? Seeing our self as a sinner in need of a Savior? Perhaps, but I believe even that is a work of God.

Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
(Joh 6:28-29)

Notice, they asked 'what must we do to be working the works of God?'
Jesus turned the tables and said 'This is the work of God, that you believe on Him...'
In other words even faith in Him is a work that God creates in a person.

 

[Abiding]

Requirements? Such as? Seeing our self as a sinner in need of a Savior? Perhaps, but I believe even that is a work of God.

Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?" Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
(Joh 6:28-29)

Notice, they asked 'what must we do to be working the works of God?'
Jesus turned the tables and said 'This is the work of God, that you believe on Him...'
In other words even faith in Him is a work that God creates in a person.

Well there ya go Jesus gave a requirement right there. So whoever refuses to believe
will never be saved and given to the Son. Right?

 

[Rock022]

Jesus was very clear and specific on how to have eternal life. This is in context loud and clear.

Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
I am the bread of life.
Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;z
this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die.
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”a
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us [his] flesh to eat?”
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

But people can not accept that he told them eat my flesh and drink my blood. (Not eat my words and drink faith)


Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”

And here is where Jesus lost so many who could not accept He becomes real flesh in the bread and real blood in the wine. (Last supper)



As a result of this, many [of] his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.

 

[Rock022]

Well there ya go Jesus gave a requirement right there. So whoever refuses to believe
will never be saved and given to the Son. Right?

That is right we should believe in Him, and He was very specific in the same chapter about what to eat and what to drink. I believe Him.

 

[Cobus]

Crossnote look how Jesus make a destinction between the two groups in His paryer... John 17... I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Looks like the ones Jesus pray for has a glorification. And the glorification is Christ Jesus IN them. That is the difference between the two, one group GLORIFIES CHRSIT JESUS IN THEM! Wow!

 

[psychomom]

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
(John 6:37)KJV

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
(Joh 6:37)ESV


Looking at this verse I can only conclude that since not everyone is saved (universalism) then only those that the Father gives the Son will come to the Son.
The strange notion of God passively looking down a corridor of time and seeing who will choose His Son and then choosing him on that basis flies against the clear and natural reading of John 6:37.

John 6:37 is supported by other verses including this similar verse...
And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (Joh 6:65)

Did anyone else find this a difficult concept in their spiritual youth?
I struggled with 'free will' and especially 'fairness'.
('cpet in the long run I couldn't find those in the Word )

Now when I read the Bible, it seems I find God choosing when I'm not looking for it!

ps--gonna take me a while, similarly, to adjust to this new format.
I really dislike change, even when it's good for me.

 

[Abiding]

So is this going to be another thread that claims God regenerates(bornagain,osas) a person
then their eyes are enlightened and heart is changed, then, they repent, then they receive the gospel?
Because before time began God elected them, so He made Himself irrestible? And noone else stands a chance?

No doubt He chooses and there is an elect, but How?

 

[psychomom]

So is this going to be another thread that claims God regenerates(bornagain,osas) a person
then their eyes are enlightened and heart is changed, then, they repent, then they receive the gospel?
Because before time began God elected them, so He made Himself irrestible? And noone else stands a chance?

No doubt He chooses and there is an elect, but How?

You sound upset, Abiding, and I understand it. ♥
Especially the 'no one else stands a chance' part.

As to how...what do you think?
(not a trick question, I respect you too much for that nonsense.)

love,
ellie

 

[PS]

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
(John 6:37)KJV

All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
(Joh 6:37)ESV


Looking at this verse I can only conclude that since not everyone is saved (universalism) then only those that the Father gives the Son will come to the Son.
The strange notion of God passively looking down a corridor of time and seeing who will choose His Son and then choosing him on that basis flies against the clear and natural reading of John 6:37.

John 6:37 is supported by other verses including this similar verse...
And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (Joh 6:65)

The question is often asked, "What happens to all the people who were born before Jesus; are they unsaved?

Of course they are not unsaved if they believed in God, for God who is Jesus on earth will never cast anyone out.

 

[Abiding]

Ellie,
Im not upset with scripture, but growing weary of unbiblical teaching that ignores
the words of Jesus and the Apostles. Then starts to try to shame folks who consider
they were willing to be saved. Repented, then renewed their minds, mortified the flesh.....etc etc.

Man is not regenerated before he repents and receives the gospel. Although he needs and is
given the grace to do this, until he does he is not saved. Drawn, convicted, permitted repentance yes.
Does He do it without us? Noway, All the scriptures teach this.

My opinion was the reason it took you so long to comes to terms with some doctrines, was that
you would never have came to the same conclusion reading the bible. Noone would.

 

[Abiding]

Above post was a long statement to explain. Rereading it
it seemed to be saying that Ellie shames people, or shamed me.

But it wasnt meant to look like that....but then everyone knows
Ellie isnt even capable of that.

 

[PS]

Above post was a long statement to explain. Rereading it
it seemed to be saying that Ellie shames people, or shamed me.

But it wasnt meant to look like that....but then everyone knows
Ellie isnt even capable of that.

You are unhappy with the theology of some?

If you are I can sympathise wholeheartedly.

 

[Elin]

So is this going to be another thread that claims God regenerates(bornagain,osas) a person
then their eyes are enlightened and heart is changed, then, they repent, then they receive the gospel?
Because before time began God elected them, so He made Himself irrestible? And noone else stands a chance?

No doubt He chooses and there is an elect, but How?

The only way God does anything. . .by his sovereign choice.

"It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort." (Ro 9:16)

"God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden." (Ro 9:18)

"One of you will say: 'Then why does God blame us (for our hardened heart)? For who can resist his will (which hardens it)?' " (Ro 9:19)

Note the answer: no explanation

"But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?"

The only answer is the absolute sovereignty of God in his choice.

That's not me talking.
That's the revelation of Jesus (Heb 1:1-2) given through Paul, his apostle.

 

[Abiding]

Your not even close to a context about salvation.
And of coarse God is sovereign. read on to 10:8-9
The context your in is about whats up with Israel.
While your at it notice the qualifiars in 10:9-10

 

[Rock022]

Crossnote look how Jesus make a destinction between the two groups in His paryer... John 17... I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.Looks like the ones Jesus pray for has a glorification. And the glorification is Christ Jesus IN them. That is the difference between the two, one group GLORIFIES CHRSIT JESUS IN THEM! Wow!

Slow down and read it, slowly. What is of the Father is of the Son, and what is of the Son is of the Father. There are no different groups.

I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for the ones you have given me, because they are yours,
and everything of mine is yours and everything of yours is mine, and I have been glorified in them.

 

[Bookends]

1 Corinthians 7:14

[SUP]14 [/SUP]For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy.

Can a wife or husband be saved just because one or the other is already a believer? If one of the other is saved and the couple remain together, that does that make their children holy? That was the verse here seems to saying, but it doesn't mean that all.

If you want to believe that those who come to Christ do so without personal accountability or responsibility, then so be it.
Have fun arguing over it... Later.

 

[PS]

If people want to believe in election they have to believe God has favourites, which he doesn't, other than the fact He separates the wicked from the righteous.


There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28

What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. Romans 3:9

Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, Romans 3:29

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: Acts 10:34

For God does not show favouritism. Romans 2:11

ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. Hebrews 2:9

WHOEVER believes in him shall not perish. John 3:16