JOHN HAGEE - JIMMY and DONNY SWAGGART

[kaylagrl]

Is there anyone else you folks would like to go after and slander? Must be another full moon tonite. You want blood, I suggest that you bite and devour each other right here on CC, at least the one you slander can defend themselves.

Swaggart kind of slandered himself I think. He should have taken the correction he recommended for others. It seems he thought too highly of himself. He should have gotten out of the ministry and looked after his personal issues. People would be more to support him and feel he was sincere.

 

[kaylagrl]

That whole Jimmy Swaggart debacle ran deeper than most people know. During Swaggart's ministry's expansionary years; he had wanted Assemblies of God (AOG) minister and evangelist Marvin Gorman's support base as it was the largest in Louisiana at the time and overlapping with and competing against his own. So like any good businessman, Swaggart hired a private detective to follow Gorman around and sniff out any dirt he could find on the man. He hit pay dirt.

Apparently, Gorman was involved in various adulterous sexual affairs and liaisons. So, Swaggart exposed him and Gorman was defrocked from the AOG, abandoned by his base in shame, and his ministry ended. Without even a "reach around" (e.g. compensation of any sort whatsoever), Swaggart then swooped in and picked up Gorman's old support base expanding his own empire further exactly as he had planned.

While, as you can imagine, Gorman was furious. So he launched a carefully orchestrated retaliatory attack of his own on Swaggart that was two-pronged.

The first prong was to divert Swaggart's attention by slapping him with a $90 million dollar libel case. It worked. Swaggart became consumed with fighting it. Ultimately, Gorman did win his lawsuit and the jury awarded Gorman's television and crusade ministries $9 million with an additional $600,000 for defamation and $400,000 for intentional infliction of emotional distress.

But, of course, the jury award was mere peanuts to the monetary amounts these guys were used to working with. Swaggart's ministry often topped out at more than $150 million a year at the time. Much more importantly, the lawsuit had put stress on Swaggart (stress can cause people to engage in stress relieving behaviors that may not be moral) while diverting his attention from the retaliatory move Gorman had planned.

For Gorman had hired a private detective who had gotten the goods on Swaggart's own sexual misconduct. To trap Swaggart, Gorman hired his son Randy and son-in-law Garland Bilbo to stake out the Travel Inn on Airline Highway in New Orleans where they used a camera with a telephoto lens in the window of the motel's Room 12 draped with a black cloth and caught Swaggart on photos with Debra Murphree a local prostitute.

Revenge time had arrived. Gorman went to the AOG with his file on Swaggart and turned it in. Despite Swaggart's enormous power and influence, the AOG followed their disciplinary policy to a tee and immediately suspended Swaggart for three months and then soon extended the suspension to their standard two-year suspension for sexual immorality. Believing that Swaggart was not genuinely repentant; the AOG defrocked him, removed his credentials and ministerial license, and distanced themselves.

You can't make this stuff up folks. It's a real world soap opera I tell you.

I was a teen when this happened but now that you recount it I remember hearing something like this.I was in the AOG at the time. He refused to take the correction though,didnt help his case. Ive talked to people who knew him personally and he was definitely pretending to be one thing on Sunday while another during the week. It wasn't really a "slip and fall" situation as far as I heard.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Swaggart's, "oops I did it again" moment: Woman Riding in Swaggart Car Says She's a Prostitute - latimes

“No,” she replied. “I’m working. Are you interested in a date?”
“Yes,” he said. “Get in.”

No Jimmy, it's not worth it to risk it drop the biscuit, NOOOOOO!

I don't mind forgiving fallen pastors. The truth is many biblical characters had very low points in their life due to sinful choices they made and in each case there were real consequences they had to endure that resulted from their behavior. No human being alive today in bodily form in this world is perfect.

But there are very real holiness requirements mandated in scripture which apply to every Christian in ministry and those who cannot meet those requirements are subject to church discipline and removal from ministry.

In fact, there are holiness requirements mandated in scripture even to be a member of a Christian assembly. See excommunication.

For those who do fall, God's desire is always for genuine repentance and restoration.

My real problem with Swaggart isn't that he committed various sins that he shouldn't have. Those sins certainly were forgivable.

The real problem is that he put on a fake show of repentance (respite with crocodile tears) before rebelling against the elders of the church going his own way in as fallen a state as ever and setting himself up as a law unto himself while aggressively acting out and condemning others for engaging in the same behaviors he did.

^ That's what I have a problem with.

"Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Remove the evil of your deeds from My sight. Cease to do evil, learn to do good; seek justice, reprove the ruthless, defend the orphan, plead for the widow.

'Come now, and let us reason together,' says the Lord, 'Though your sins are as scarlet, they will be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they will be like wool.'

If you consent and obey, You will eat the best of the land; but if you refuse and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword. Truly, the mouth of the Lord has spoken."

Isaiah 1:16-20

I was a teen when this happened but now that you recount it I remember hearing something like this.I was in the AOG at the time. He refused to take the correction though,didnt help his case. Ive talked to people who knew him personally and he was definitely pretending to be one thing on Sunday while another during the week. It wasn't really a "slip and fall" situation as far as I heard.

 

[Yet]

You must have taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque...when did this thread become about home meetings?

Well where else but in a home were they going to meet...its not like there was a Baptist church on every corner...but you are wrong...the also met in the temple or temple courts depending on what translation one is using

Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, Acts 2:46

But like I said.....you do not seem able to commend anyone

Bradc said that 250 people or less would keep truth in place. I had to challenge that. No it wouldn't guaranty truth.

 

[sltaylor]

Some of what they say is wrong, true. No matter how we feel about anyone's message or their lifestyle it is important to keep the foolishness of what is being preached biblical. Paul hit on it, and I will just leave his words and everyone to make up their own minds.

"For since in the wisdom of God the world*through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save*those who believe."

And....

"It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill.*The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.*The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition,not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.*But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached."

 

[vic1980]

John Hagee DENIES JESUS is the Messiah!

Pretty old about 2 years ago i thinks

[video=youtube;podfHtGB4SY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=podfHtGB4SY[/video]