Joyce Meyer

[Bladerunner]

Yep, now it's getting clearer why you know so little about the Bible... can't even find a verse when it is spelled out for you.

I reckon so! Just wanted to make sure I was on the same page. with you two, one never knows. As far as my knowledge about the Bible, I will admit, is not where it should be thus I keep studying every day. How about you?

 

[followjesus]

I would say this is pretty good advice. If you have not read much Scripture, you can easily be led astray if you don't test the preaching to the bible and the knowledge of other believers who know the bible well and walk close to the Lord. Usually when I watch Christian tv, I am listening to a program that is all singing and rarely preaching. If there is, it is not much. I typically like reading people's stories such as testimonies and memoirs and less instruction and teaching books. Though, I have read much of the book by Charles Swindoll called Grace Awakening.

9its sad to see the rod parsley " gospel" of financial seed sowing out there gaining popularity

 

[zeroturbulence]

For the people who listen to Joyce Meyer or read her books, what do you like about her? Some people don't like Joyce Meyer and does not think she should teach. What is wrong with what she teaches? I have heard Joyce Meyer speak some and have read bits and pieces of Battlefield of the Mind, but I am not a major fan of her. I prefer other speakers.

I used to love listening to her years ago, but for the past few years it seems like when she preaches its hard for me to follow because she often seems like she's all over the place.

 

[followjesus]

Also when Paul wrote these letters he was specifically addressing the churches of Corinth and Ephesus.

by the logic here, nothing in the bible is meant for believers lol in a bible discussion forum? nothing is ever going to be addressed to individual churches 2000 years later. everything spoken to the church, whether pre cross, post cross, pauls epistles, james, john, peter........its all addressed to the One and Only church of Jesus Christ. it will never change what he said then, is hat He is saying now. if it matters who these letters are addressed to......we can toss out every word in the bible and make up our own gospel that sounds enticing to mankind......there is a real movement in the church away from and actually against what the bible says. its frightening for the church because its spreading rapidly.

 

[Willie-T]

by the logic here, nothing in the bible is meant for believers lol in a bible discussion forum? nothing is ever going to be addressed to individual churches 2000 years later. everything spoken to the church, whether pre cross, post cross, pauls epistles, james, john, peter........its all addressed to the One and Only church of Jesus Christ. it will never change what he said then, is hat He is saying now. if it matters who these letters are addressed to......we can toss out every word in the bible and make up our own gospel that sounds enticing to mankind......there is a real movement in the church away from and actually against what the bible says. its frightening for the church because its spreading rapidly.

Much of the Bible is written "for" many ages, but only written specifically "to" those so indicated in the greetings of each letter.

 

[Bladerunner]

No.

Paul said SCRIPTURE SAYS.

And Paul quoted Luke and what he was inspired to WRITE.

It is QUOTE from scripture. A QUOTE from Luke.

Please show us another scripture that QUOTES," for the laborer is worthy of his wages."

Luke is the only one. And Paul calls it scripture.

Please give me the exact verses you are discussing? Thanks

 

[oldethennew]

Much of the Bible is written "for" many ages, but only written specifically "to" those so indicated in the greetings of each letter.

====================================================
will,

what does what you said mean?

 

[mailmandan]

Joyce Meyer said,

"During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there . . . no plan was too extreme . . . Jesus paid on the cross and in hell"
(The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, by Joyce Meyer, Tulsa: Harrison House 1991, chapter 4, page 35).

"God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, 'Let Him go.' Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus . . . He was resurrected from the dead -- the first born-again man" (from same book as above, page. 36).

"There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell" (from same book as above, page 37)

 

[jaybird88]

why go all extreme and start saying Paul is equal to Jesus, it just makes no sense to me."


because if you can convince people that what Jesus said, doesnt apply to you, that only paul applies to you, then you can remove the truth much easier because what paul preaches is all based upon what Jesus taught in the Gospel. you probably can discern where the motivation originates only one force is going to be so set on dethroning the King because His doctrine rewuires of you.


its all about false doctrine, its been satans only weapon since time began, to make a good false doctrine, i have a necessaty to convince you that what Jesus taught in the Gospel isnt really the gospel. instead of that....listen to me. its just a pattern expanded from the first false doctrine in eden. theres more scripture now, so its much easier to distort what it says. but if one sticks with Jesus teaching about things, deception has no lifeline. fallacy rewuires the trtuh to be distorted or removed.

ultimately if i want to sell a new book to you for 29.95 i cant just share whats in the word of God, its free to people, to make money i have to tell you, the " secret" to really knowing thats different from whats simply written, some folks scoff at false doctrine, but its truly the source of sin and death

i agree, it makes things easier to cherry pick. Jesus teaches one thing, Paul teaches the same thing but its worded a bit different, and people use that as a "what Jesus really meant" and thats how they change a teaching of Jesus.

i hear a lot of James vs Paul , Jesus vs Paul and to me its taking things a bit to far. its the same message just different voices. Jesus and James were Hebrew / Aramaic speakers, they probably spoke Greek but Hebrew was their first language, Paul was a Greek speaker. Greeks and Jews taught different. if you compare Greek and Jewish teaching you can see how they are presented differently.

 

[Mercy4u]

I reckon so! Just wanted to make sure I was on the same page. with you two, one never knows. As far as my knowledge about the Bible, I will admit, is not where it should be thus I keep studying every day. How about you?

It seems I am part of the "you two?"

So, Paul was not quoting from Luke, and was not calling it scripture?

1 Tim 5:18
New American Standard Bible
For the Scripture says, "you shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

Luke 10:7
New American Standard Bible
"Stay in that house, eating and drinking what they give you; for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not keep moving from house to house.

 

[followjesus]

Much of the Bible is written "for" many ages, but only written specifically "to" those so indicated in the greetings of each letter.

so let me ask willie, what is it that determines which to pick and choose that applies and doesnt? and where is the basis for that thinking...again not from a persons book, but does the bible say any such thing explaining some of its for the church but some isnt? lol its as if god changes g=from age to age he tells one generation, you need to repent and obey me, and another were left to make our own determinations of the gospel?


or are these new age teachers the new apostles writing the scripture we need to believe? to me Honestly the logic on one hand " this letter is addressed to the church at ephesus only. and then on the otherhand though the letters are all addressed to the present churches some are for us, let me guess which ones..." Only the no condition say i believe and im saved" those are for us, but the " yu will be judged according to your deeds, repent and obey the Lord" that stuff is undoubtedly addressed to others and not real christians?


the truth is that we should be thankful that God remains the same throughout all generations, that He has revelaed Himself to the church through the gospel, otherwise wed be at the mercy of charismatic writers and speakers. He helped us understand the gospel through the epistles. its not a matter of who its written to, its all written to mankind, its about what is written not who its to. if its for the church then, it is now its the wisdom, the truth that is there that matters. from genesis forward. if a person lets the word lead them to the " proper division" everything falls into place without having to explain what doesnt apply, it does that itself through the Gospel. its all for us, jew gentile, 90 ad, 2017 the church is one whether then or now

 

[jaybird88]

does Meyer ever explain why Jesus paid in hell? whats the significance of Him paying in hell rather than the cross?

 

[followjesus]

i agree, it makes things easier to cherry pick. Jesus teaches one thing, Paul teaches the same thing but its worded a bit different, and people use that as a "what Jesus really meant" and thats how they change a teaching of Jesus.

i hear a lot of James vs Paul , Jesus vs Paul and to me its taking things a bit to far. its the same message just different voices. Jesus and James were Hebrew / Aramaic speakers, they probably spoke Greek but Hebrew was their first language, Paul was a Greek speaker. Greeks and Jews taught different. if you compare Greek and Jewish teaching you can see how they are presented differently.

yes indeed and also the same teachings in different words.....teach different aspects of the same things leading to more understanding. James and Pauls teaching regarding faith...they go together for a better understanding, but most people pit them against each other as if they are contradicting the other. Gods wisdom was being poured through these men like an ocean through a oil funnel. it takes all of them to really give a clear understanding, and it takes the gospel for any of what they are saying to make any sense at all.

if opeople understood like ur saying it goes together, it all has its proper order, its all relevant and important, but its all about Jesus He is the beginning and end. the ot promises His coming, the new testament witnesses of His coming. the gospel is the grand design of God and the assault on truth is really becoming consistantly worse. every false doctrine explaining why " Jesus teachings arent for christians" no matter what the explaination, is really causing alot of brick walls in the mind. and leading to chaos. when the Bible has a perfect peaceful order Jesus above all else the rest is leading to or witnessing of His Gospel

 

[mailmandan]

does Meyer ever explain why Jesus paid in hell? whats the significance of Him paying in hell rather than the cross?

According to Joyce Meyer, Jesus gained victory in hell. There is no significance in saying that Jesus payed for our sins in hell, rather than the cross. Joyce Meyer is not the only person in the word of faith movement who teaches this false doctrine which denies the sufficiency of the cross - https://carm.org/did-jesus-die-spiritually

 

[Willie-T]

so let me ask willie, what is it that determines which to pick and choose that applies and doesnt? and where is the basis for that thinking...again not from a persons book, but does the bible say any such thing explaining some of its for the church but some isnt? lol its as if god changes g=from age to age he tells one generation, you need to repent and obey me, and another were left to make our own determinations of the gospel?


or are these new age teachers the new apostles writing the scripture we need to believe? to me Honestly the logic on one hand " this letter is addressed to the church at ephesus only. and then on the otherhand though the letters are all addressed to the present churches some are for us, let me guess which ones..." Only the no condition say i believe and im saved" those are for us, but the " yu will be judged according to your deeds, repent and obey the Lord" that stuff is undoubtedly addressed to others and not real christians?


the truth is that we should be thankful that God remains the same throughout all generations, that He has revelaed Himself to the church through the gospel, otherwise wed be at the mercy of charismatic writers and speakers. He helped us understand the gospel through the epistles. its not a matter of who its written to, its all written to mankind, its about what is written not who its to. if its for the church then, it is now its the wisdom, the truth that is there that matters. from genesis forward. if a person lets the word lead them to the " proper division" everything falls into place without having to explain what doesnt apply, it does that itself through the Gospel. its all for us, jew gentile, 90 ad, 2017 the church is one whether then or now

In many cases, the context clearly addresses a specific and esoteric problem in the church addressed... such as the man having his father's wife.... and when specific names are called out. And I'm pretty sure Paul didn't give all of us a blanket pass to slug some wine when our stomach was upset. That would be a cruel thing to do to an alcoholic. Those are but a few of the obvious ones, yet we do go way overboard trying to make just about anything said in those letters apply almost exclusively to us.

 

[Nehemiah6]

does Meyer ever explain why Jesus paid in hell? whats the significance of Him paying in hell rather than the cross?

Because these Word of Faith preachers don't even study the Bible properly, they invented a fantasy about Christ going to Hell -- the Lake of Fire. Had they seen that Christ went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three night to proclaim His VICTORY over sin, death, Hell, Hades, and Satan, they would not have invented such a false doctrine.

We need to remember that when the Lord cried out with a loud voice on the Cross "It is finished!" He had fully paid the penalty for the sins of the whole world. So when His soul and spirit went to Hades (translated as "hell" in the KJB) then He went to proclaim His victory to the spirits in prison. The word is translated as "preach" which could better be translated as proclaim (1 Pet 3:19).

Strong's Concordance

kérussó: to be a herald, proclaim​

Original Word: κηρύσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kérussó
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-roos'-so)
Short Definition: I proclaim, herald, preach
Definition: I proclaim, herald, preach.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2784: κηρύσσω
b. specifically used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers: absolutely, Matthew 11:1; Mark 1:38; Mark 3:14; Mark 16:20; Romans 10:15; with the dative of the person to whom the proclamation is made,1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Peter 3:19;

 

[heartofdavid]

Because these Word of Faith preachers don't even study the Bible properly, they invented a fantasy about Christ going to Hell -- the Lake of Fire. Had they seen that Christ went to Sheol/Hades for three days and three night to proclaim His VICTORY over sin, death, Hell, Hades, and Satan, they would not have invented such a false doctrine.

We need to remember that when the Lord cried out with a loud voice on the Cross "It is finished!" He had fully paid the penalty for the sins of the whole world. So when His soul and spirit went to Hades (translated as "hell" in the KJB) then He went to proclaim His victory to the spirits in prison. The word is translated as "preach" which could better be translated as proclaim (1 Pet 3:19).

Strong's Concordance

kérussó: to be a herald, proclaim​

Original Word: κηρύσσω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: kérussó
Phonetic Spelling: (kay-roos'-so)
Short Definition: I proclaim, herald, preach
Definition: I proclaim, herald, preach.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2784: κηρύσσω
b. specifically used of the public proclamation of the gospel and matters pertaining to it, made by John the Baptist, by Jesus, by the apostles and other Christian teachers: absolutely, Matthew 11:1; Mark 1:38; Mark 3:14; Mark 16:20; Romans 10:15; with the dative of the person to whom the proclamation is made,1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Peter 3:19;

You just said he went to hell according to KJV.

Post the source of your accusations. Show us in Meyers statement of faith where your accusations are founded.

 

[Willie-T]

====================================================
will,

what does what you said mean?

Just what I explained here. Because Paul told a church that a man there had his own father's wife, are we going to initiate a witch hunt for that man in our own congregation? We might decide the man who stays to himself, and we don't really like anyway, MUST be the one Paul is warning us about, and kick the poor guy out of "our" church. (A little extreme, but we do get carried away with quite a few things due to that same sort of "specifically personalized" thinking.)

 

[Mercy4u]

We need to remember that when the Lord cried out with a loud voice on the Cross "It is finished!" He had fully paid the penalty for the sins of the whole world.

It seems many have forgotten this, or truly don't believe it.

Many give it lip service, but still say it is sin that send's one to the Lake of fire. Thus nullifying "it is finished."

What is not finished is EVIL and self righteousness. ANd that is what sends people to the Lake of fire if they never believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Christian71]

I don't read Joyce Myers but I have nothing against those who do... Not my cup of tea... My wife has read Battle Field Of The Mind and it has helped her but my interest are elsewhere... I believe she has also read Joe Osteen but again not my cup of tea... I know she had read Jesus Calling by Sarah Young and bought a bunch of them and gave them to different ladies but again not my cup of tea... I like the writing of the Puritan authors, biblical history and theological doctrine, which she does not much care for... Not her cup of tea... Who cares what the nay sayers say... Read what brings you personal comfort and help in your walk with the Lord... I've been at it over 50 years... Brother Glen