JP teaches "self righteousness" and instant "perfectionism"

[miknik5]

Do unbelievers have a master who is the Lord?
Until we are born again, we are not children of God.
It's referring to believers and illustrates a warning to God's children.

I asked about Luke 12. Thank you for responding with the answer. Yes they are believers. And isn't that what is happening here? The servants are fighting. And Luke 12 should have been referenced over and instead of the last day unbelieving mockers

 

[Stephen63]

This is what I wrote:

including the book of Hebrews which was written to Hebrew peopleof which there would have been believers and non-believers listening to the letter being spoken.







When you said that I used the Book of Hebrews - you said that I said it was to the "Jew only" and that I was now using the book of Hebrews for Christian believers which is what started this whole thing.

My goodness you are very slippery...

Here is your post #113

Wait a minute, you told me before on several occasions that Hebrews was written to the Jews only, but, but, now you want to use it for yourself? Rofl!!! See how your own folly will catch up with you. LOL

Obviously you missed this part below in my post.

Prove that I said that Hebrews was written to the Jews only as in not being for the believing Jew as well.

NOW we see who the slippery one is.....Makes me wonder HOW slippery when your bases are always covered.

Here you actually said it while adding just enough to it just in case..... you had it both ways.

I can't prove it, but it makes me look at you verrrrrrry differently.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

You guys should get snaggit, I sorta like seeing the whole thing in its setting because theres less back and forth concerning it I would thing.

Here you go,

In the "Losing Salvation" thread in Post #43 Grace777x70 is speaking to John 832 (who is quoting verses from Hebrews 10) and Grace777x70 quotes him on that and mentions that the writer of Hebrews is speaking to the Jewish people

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-3.html#post2602004

Heres the clip of it

Then up a few posts on the same thread "losing salvation" in post #50 Grace777x70 mentions that he has a grace based versus a works based teaching video of Hebrews chapter 6 here

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-3.html#post2602028

Here is a clip of that

And that is a no "works based" teaching video on Hebrews chapter 6 (but a grace based) for the Hebrews


A little further along on the same "Losing salvation" thread in post # 283 Grace777x70 confirms the book of Hebrews is adressed to the Jewish people about accepting Christ and posts the same video that he posted in post #43

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-15.html#post2602971

And here is a clip of that

And in the "condemnation is the root cause" thread in post #277 Grace777x70 says that the book of Hebrews (which is written to the Hebrews) has a chapter 10 which is a great chapter for believer in Christ

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/137655-condemnation-root-cause-14.html#post2672243

Here is a clip of that

And in the thread " Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?" in Post #12 Grace777x70 says that the book of Hebrews is written to the Hebrews and posted another video on Hebrews chapter 10 there

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ty-conditional-unconditional.html#post2630007

Here is a clip of that

Might depend on what post and these are just off of three threads, I am not really getting what the issue is except on whether Hebrews is written to only Hebrews and/or Jewish believers and/or unbelievers?

He says The willful sin is lame in Hebrews

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-15.html#post2602978

Which might conflict with Romans 7:18 which I would not regard as willfully but more as that which springd out of weakness whereas when you look at the definition of wilfully ...

voluntarily, willingly, of one's own accord

1. to sin wilfully as opposed to sins committed inconsiderately,
   and from ignorance or from weakness...

....And sinning in ignorance (as opposed to wilfully) is also shown in the scripture

And Paul does speak of winking at certain things in this time of this ignorance (as he calls it) and even among the Athenians (whose cities were full of idolatries) and tells them but now God commanded them to repent in Acts 17:30 and of some of the same things named in Rev 9:20 which were not repented of (there).

I think there it shows a difference between wilfully, ignorantly and that which is weakness since we are to exercise ourselves unto godliness by the power given us by God (spiritual muscles so to speak)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You guys should get snaggit, I sorta like seeing the whole thing in its setting because theres less back and forth concerning it I would thing.

Here you go,

In the "Losing Salvation" thread in Post #43 Grace777x70 is speaking to John 832 (who is quoting verses from Hebrews 10) and Grace777x70 quotes him on that and mentions that the writer of Hebrews is speaking to the Jewish people

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-3.html#post2602004

Heres the clip of it

Then up a few posts on the same thread "losing salvation" in post #50 Grace777x70 mentions that he has a grace based versus a works based teaching video of Hebrews chapter 6 here

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-3.html#post2602028

Here is a clip of that

And that is a no "works based" teaching video on Hebrews chapter 6 (but a grace based) for the Hebrews


A little further along on the same "Losing salvation" thread in post # 283 Grace777x70 confirms the book of Hebrews is adressed to the Jewish people about accepting Christ and posts the same video that he posted in post #43

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-15.html#post2602971

And here is a clip of that

And in the "condemnation is the root cause" thread in post #277 Grace777x70 says that the book of Hebrews (which is written to the Hebrews) has a chapter 10 which is a great chapter for believer in Christ

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/137655-condemnation-root-cause-14.html#post2672243

Here is a clip of that

And in the thread " Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?" in Post #12 Grace777x70 says that the book of Hebrews is written to the Hebrews and posted another video on Hebrews chapter 10 there

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ty-conditional-unconditional.html#post2630007

Here is a clip of that

Might depend on what post and these are just off of three threads, I am not really getting what the issue is except on whether Hebrews is written to only Hebrews and/or Jewish believers and/or unbelievers?

He says The willful sin is lame in Hebrews

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-15.html#post2602978

Which might conflict with Romans 7:18 which I would not regard as willfully but more as that which springd out of weakness whereas when you look at the definition of wilfully ...

voluntarily, willingly, of one's own accord

1. to sin wilfully as opposed to sins committed inconsiderately,
   and from ignorance or from weakness...

....And sinning in ignorance (as opposed to wilfully) is also shown in the scripture

And Paul does speak of winking at certain things in this time of this ignorance (as he calls it) and even among the Athenians (whose cities were full of idolatries) and tells them but now God commanded them to repent in Acts 17:30 and of some of the same things named in Rev 9:20 which were not repented of (there).

I think there it shows a difference between wilfully, ignorantly and that which is weakness since we are to exercise ourselves unto godliness by the power given us by God (spiritual muscles so to speak)

That's why he is called Mr. Twister. When I quote Hebrews to prove a point about those who can in fact fall away from the faith, he claims I am quoting scripture "out of context." Because Hebrews was for the Jews, which he has said over and over again, even now we see the multitudes of proof.

But when he wants to make a point out of the book of Hebrews concerning salvation, then it is "to us" Christians. Funny how that "context" thing works huh? You can see this constant flip flopping and twisting of words and meanings, and totally misrepresenting God's words in order to hold up a false doctrine and false teachings like OSAS, and the false grace teachings of Joseph Prince and the WOF movement.

Like I said before, this is handling the words of God deceitfully to promote the doctrines of men, and is to me just as bad as adding to and taking away from the words of God, which will cause one to receive the plagues mentioned in God's wrath.

But we now see how his twisting of the scriptures is being exposed even with proof, even though he still denies it.

 

[Grace777x70]

You guys should get snaggit, I sorta like seeing the whole thing in its setting because theres less back and forth concerning it I would thing.

Here you go,

In the "Losing Salvation" thread in Post #43 Grace777x70 is speaking to John 832 (who is quoting verses from Hebrews 10) and Grace777x70 quotes him on that and mentions that the writer of Hebrews is speaking to the Jewish people

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-3.html#post2602004

Heres the clip of it

Then up a few posts on the same thread "losing salvation" in post #50 Grace777x70 mentions that he has a grace based versus a works based teaching video of Hebrews chapter 6 here

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-3.html#post2602028

Here is a clip of that

And that is a no "works based" teaching video on Hebrews chapter 6 (but a grace based) for the Hebrews


A little further along on the same "Losing salvation" thread in post # 283 Grace777x70 confirms the book of Hebrews is adressed to the Jewish people about accepting Christ and posts the same video that he posted in post #43

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-15.html#post2602971

And here is a clip of that

And in the "condemnation is the root cause" thread in post #277 Grace777x70 says that the book of Hebrews (which is written to the Hebrews) has a chapter 10 which is a great chapter for believer in Christ

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/137655-condemnation-root-cause-14.html#post2672243

Here is a clip of that

And in the thread " Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?" in Post #12 Grace777x70 says that the book of Hebrews is written to the Hebrews and posted another video on Hebrews chapter 10 there

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ty-conditional-unconditional.html#post2630007

Here is a clip of that

Might depend on what post and these are just off of three threads, I am not really getting what the issue is except on whether Hebrews is written to only Hebrews and/or Jewish believers and/or unbelievers?

He says The willful sin is lame in Hebrews

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/135548-losing-salvation-15.html#post2602978

Which might conflict with Romans 7:18 which I would not regard as willfully but more as that which springd out of weakness whereas when you look at the definition of wilfully ...

voluntarily, willingly, of one's own accord

1. to sin wilfully as opposed to sins committed inconsiderately,
   and from ignorance or from weakness...

....And sinning in ignorance (as opposed to wilfully) is also shown in the scripture

And Paul does speak of winking at certain things in this time of this ignorance (as he calls it) and even among the Athenians (whose cities were full of idolatries) and tells them but now God commanded them to repent in Acts 17:30 and of some of the same things named in Rev 9:20 which were not repented of (there).

I think there it shows a difference between wilfully, ignorantly and that which is weakness since we are to exercise ourselves unto godliness by the power given us by God (spiritual muscles so to speak)

I have said that the book of Hebrews was written to Jewish people in which there would have been both believers and unbelievers in Christ as their Messiah and they would have heard all these words being spoken and that is exactly what all that shows in this post above.

The ones being "deceitful" are the very people that take my words and "twist" them to say that I said the book of Hebrew was only for the Jews in that it is not for us believers. That is the twisting that is being done. This is the deceitfulness in action.

And Stephen63 - you are right - I do have my bases covered because I know how this game of deceit is practiced by some here in CC and it's whole purpose is to malign the gospel of the grace of Christ which is why many attack and slander minsters that preach the grace of Christ and His love and mercy to people.

The purpose is to dis-credit the message of the gospel of the glorious grace and salvation that is found only in Christ Himself. After all - it is the gospel!

But we are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the only power for salvation and we will not give in to the deceitfulness for even one hour.

Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Your lies have been exposed Mr. Twister, you even deny the proof of your own words!!! What a phony!!!

 

[psalm6819]

Your lies have been exposed Mr. Twister, you even deny the proof of your own words!!! What a phony!!!

so is this the spirit of love? funny..... I just don't see these words coming out of Jesus mouth

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

I have said that the book of Hebrews was written to Jewish people in which there would have been both believers and unbelievers in Christ as their Messiah and they would have heard all these words being spoken and that is exactly what all that shows in this post above.

The ones being "deceitful" are the very people that take my words and "twist" them to say that I said the book of Hebrew was only for the Jews in that it is not for us believers. That is the twisting that is being done. This is the deceitfulness in action.

And Stephen63 - you are right - I do have my bases covered because I know how this game of deceit is practiced by some here in CC and it's whole purpose is to malign the gospel of the grace of Christ which is why many attack and slander minsters that preach the grace of Christ and His love and mercy to people.

The purpose is to dis-credit the message of the gospel of the glorious grace and salvation that is found only in Christ Himself. After all - it is the gospel!

But we are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the only power for salvation and we will not give in to the deceitfulness for even one hour.

Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

I just posted the clips which I never touched, I dont even get what it was you said that is the problem because I dont read so much the back and forsth in these things but I couldnt understand Stephens post or why the confusion so I found them written various ways, and everyone can just pick their poison with no possibility of cuttting your words or misrepresenting them because your words remain untouched pulling them that way.

I thought each person could appreciate seeing what is just there, and no more need to argue

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

so is this the spirit of love? funny..... I just don't see these words coming out of Jesus mouth

Maybe I should have called him Satan, or a serpent, or brood of vipers? It's all of the same spirit=seed of evil doers.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I just posted the clips which I never touched, I dont even get what it was you said that is the problem because I dont read so much the back and forsth in these things but I couldnt understand Stephens post or why the confusion so I found them written various ways, and everyone can just pick their poison with no possibility of cuttting your words or misrepresenting them because your words remain untouched pulling them that way.

I thought each person could appreciate seeing what is just there, and no more need to argue

He rejects what he has actually said is true. LOL Mr Twister can play the context card however he sees fit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have said that the book of Hebrews was written to Jewish people in which there would have been both believers and unbelievers in Christ as their Messiah and they would have heard all these words being spoken and that is exactly what all that shows in this post above.

The ones being "deceitful" are the very people that take my words and "twist" them to say that I said the book of Hebrew was only for the Jews in that it is not for us believers. That is the twisting that is being done. This is the deceitfulness in action.

And Stephen63 - you are right - I do have my bases covered because I know how this game of deceit is practiced by some here in CC and it's whole purpose is to malign the gospel of the grace of Christ which is why many attack and slander minsters that preach the grace of Christ and His love and mercy to people.

The purpose is to dis-credit the message of the gospel of the glorious grace and salvation that is found only in Christ Himself. After all - it is the gospel!

But we are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the only power for salvation and we will not give in to the deceitfulness for even one hour.

Galatians 2:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

I think anyone who comes in with an open mind can see what they are doing.. I think it is time to move on, this stuff is for the birds..

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

He rejects what he has actually said is true. LOL Mr Twister can play the context card however he sees fit.

I left the link for you guys, so you have a summary of exactly what is said. You have the link, the post number and the visual (untouched) capture which includes in it the context and so no one can twist it around. You guys should do that actually, like both quote and link to something. I prefer you sharing more so and disengaging from this because everything becomes ugly caught up trying to prove the lie of another that we leave off from Gods truth to the distraction of that working.

Welp, I need a break from this place after 48 hours

My husband wants more of those peanut butter snicker bars you liked, I can send ya up another batch into it?

 

[Angela53510]

Angela - that quote in Col 2 is from ISIT - not from me. It was his quote. I have no idea where he got it from and I was wondering about it myself but you know how those self-proclaimed heretic hunters make up stuff and "twist" what is being said by others.

He got that quote from a heretic hunters website so I don't know anything about it.

As to Heb10:14 and "perfected" - what I gave was the Greek - it is in the perfect tense.

I welcome your shadowing....and will have great delight in going over the scriptures with you.

Sorry to come back to this thread so much later. Life calls, sometimes!

I think there are lessons we can all learn from this mess about Col. 2.


1. We do need to use the "Reply with Quotes" button or just use the quote button above, and say who the quote was from. Every time, for old people like me who can't photographically remember everything that was said in every thread, including myself! LOL


2. The other thing that needs to be done so much more, by a lot of people here, is to read the verse, passage or chapter before we quote it. Or, if it is a quote from someone that is not right, then use the chapter to point out why it is wrong. As I have done.

We need to be discerning of what we post - ESPECIALLY when we are talking about the Bible. Sometimes that requires time, and energy. It will mean making fewer posts, and probably longer posts. OK, I admit, talking about my methods.

If we don't want to be called out, and get into arguments, then let us be sure of what we are posting. Don't just read one translation, and make a doctrine out of it. Like Hebrews 10:14. Read a bunch! Use real Bible tools to check out the veracity of what the Greek should be - not just some on-line Bible site, which may give simplistic answers. Or an internet preacher who is in no way a Bible scholar! (Just to get back to the topic of this thread, which was about two doctrines which JP teaches.)


3. If we want to discuss things, especially when we quote someone, have the decency to read the whole post, and think about it before you reply. Replying quickly can lead to anger. And a lot of unnecessary posts. Read, think, study, then reply. Not that everyone needs to do what I do, but after the anger I displayed in July, before I took a break from CC, I really prayed and asked God to show me how to post with integrity, and love, even if I was correcting or rebuking someone!

It shocks me daily the kind of wrathful interactions, usually between two individuals, but sometimes between one clique and another, which should NEVER be happening to Christians. What a poor witness to the peace of God, which passes understanding! What a total lack of remembering that regardless of what someone else posts, or if they are heretics or even saved, we need to reply with a demeanour that shows God's love, (and justice!) but does not wound or kill. Regardless of Jesus whipping the money changers! If Jesus wants to come to CC and start posting very angry and pointed posts, we must let him! But we are not Jesus, and we need to reflect the fruits of the holy Spirit, not the depths of evil and sin.

"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." Gal. 5:18-21

And super kudos to PilgrimPassingThrou! What a great tool to find previous quotes and present them to confirm or deny what was actually said, not just what someone "said they said!" The truth was very, very obvious after that, and I do thank you!

Regarding that Hebrews 10:14, just adding to my previous comments -

"μιᾷ γὰρ προσφορᾷ τετελείωκεν εἰς τὸ διηνεκὲς τοὺς ἁγιαζομένους" Hebrews 10:14 Greek

From The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the New Testament by Cleon Rogers Jr and Cleon Rogers III page 539

"τετελείωκεν or teteleioken from teleioo (to complete, to perfect)- Perfect Indicative Active - Perfect indicates a one-time event with a continuing result completed in the in the process depicted by the participle ( ἁγιαζομένους - present passive participle.)

This means to make it simple - that we are justified and made perfect positionally.

Then we are in the process of being sanctified by the Holy Spirit till Jesus returns. Part of this is identifying our sins, confessing our sins (1 John 1:9, not written to gnostics, who didn't exist then, but believers! Plato and Aristotle aside!)

So we are saved for eternity by God who then changes and transforms us by the power of the Holy Spirit walking with us, and helping us learn to obey, to trust and follow Christ completely.


I am sorry if this upsets some people's newly formed religious traditions. Hard to break, when you only deal superficially with the Bible, and make doctrines out of one verse - hermeneutically just wrong!

I'm going to finish with another long passage from the Bible, but one we all need to remember each time we post!


"Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. 2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body. 3 If we put bits into the mouths of horses so that they obey us, we guide their whole bodies as well. 4 Look at the ships also: though they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are guided by a very small rudder wherever the will of the pilot directs. 5 So also the tongue is a small member, yet it boasts of great things.

How great a forest is set ablaze by such a small fire! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. 7 For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind, 8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. 9 With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness of God. 10 From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so." James 3:1-10 ESV

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I left the link for you guys, so you have a summary of exactly what is said. You have the link, the post number and the visual (untouched) capture which includes in it the context and so no one can twist it around. You guys should do that actually, like both quote and link to something. I prefer you sharing more so and disengaging from this because everything becomes ugly caught up trying to prove the lie of another that we leave off from Gods truth to the distraction of that working.

Welp, I need a break from this place after 48 hours

My husband wants more of those peanut butter snicker bars you liked, I can send ya up another batch into it?

Thanks for the links, and I even provided proof myself from another thread a couple of days ago when he tried playing the Mr. Twister context card on me with the book of Hebrews, saying it does not apply. But then later tries to use it as proof text for himself when he quotes the same book and chapter, exposing how he constantly flip flops. Now we see he has caught himself up in own little tangled web of lies and deceit by twisting and misrepresenting the words of God. I think it's good to expose these reprobates for what they are, so no else who is new here will fall for their twisting and perverting of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And it is a distraction for those who want to discuss the Bible, but have to constantly hear people say that does not apply to us, that is out of context, that is only for the Jews, that's a bad translation, Jesus words are Old Testament, yada, yada, yada. Anything to actually believe in what Jesus said to do, and what is clearly written in scripture. It's all about misrepresenting and stealing the words of God by creating a distraction for them.

And I don't blame you for wanting to take a break from this constant warfare, and it is spiritual warfare, as Satan is trying to cast the Truth to ground and stomp all over it through these many deceivers. May the Lord rebuke them all who try to pervert and twist the gospel of Jesus Christ to support the false doctrines of men.

 

[Jimbone]

Thanks for the links, and I even provided proof myself from another thread a couple of days ago when he tried playing the Mr. Twister context card on me with the book of Hebrews, saying it does not apply. But then later tries to use it as proof text for himself when he quotes the same book and chapter, exposing how he constantly flip flops. Now we see he has caught himself up in own little tangled web of lies and deceit by twisting and misrepresenting the words of God. I think it's good to expose these reprobates for what they are, so no else who is new here will fall for their twisting and perverting of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And it is a distraction for those who want to discuss the Bible, but have to constantly hear people say that does not apply to us, that is out of context, that is only for the Jews, that's a bad translation, Jesus words are Old Testament, yada, yada, yada. Anything to actually believe in what Jesus said to do, and what is clearly written in scripture. It's all about misrepresenting and stealing the words of God by creating a distraction for them.

And I don't blame you for wanting to take a break from this constant warfare, and it is spiritual warfare, as Satan is trying to cast the Truth to ground and stomp all over it through these many deceivers. May the Lord rebuke them all who try to pervert and twist the gospel of Jesus Christ to support the false doctrines of men.

I agree with you so very much, but I agree knowing how lost to truth I have been in life too, and one thing I don't think anyone can deny is that everyone here is trying to stand up for what they think is truth in love, if we didn't try to share it then we wouldn't be doing what we are called to do and share the absolutely amazing gift that God gave to this completely undeserving broken man. I agree with you that God's word is not to be lightly regarded, nor taught wrong, I honestly think you are doing a good job pointing out what you disagree with and where JP's teachings conflict and some times are opposite of what His word says. I also STRONGLY believe there is Truth in life, and is not just a subjective matter and just "to each his own", but I say that as one who once saw the world's definition of "love and tolerance" as true. I mean who where we to tell someone "you're wrong", I mean how much more arrogant can you get than to say "you're wrong". We have to come to truth on our own, and we have to be patient and never give up. Maybe take a step back every now and then, so we don't just get in the habit of fighting only.
Everyone have a nice day.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I agree with you so very much, but I agree knowing how lost to truth I have been in life too, and one thing I don't think anyone can deny is that everyone here is trying to stand up for what they think is truth in love, if we didn't try to share it then we wouldn't be doing what we are called to do and share the absolutely amazing gift that God gave to this completely undeserving broken man. I agree with you that God's word is not to be lightly regarded, nor taught wrong, I honestly think you are doing a good job pointing out what you disagree with and where JP's teachings conflict and some times are opposite of what His word says. I also STRONGLY believe there is Truth in life, and is not just a subjective matter and just "to each his own", but I say that as one who once saw the world's definition of "love and tolerance" as true. I mean who where we to tell someone "you're wrong", I mean how much more arrogant can you get than to say "you're wrong". We have to come to truth on our own, and we have to be patient and never give up. Maybe take a step back every now and then, so we don't just get in the habit of fighting only.
Everyone have a nice day.

Oh, I agree, and I do get battle fatigue from this constant warfare, and it is warfare between the spirit of this world and the Spirit of God. Not many have the stomach for it, and I do have to step away from this constant back and forth because it is vexation of the Spirit. And I know what the scriptures say about the love of many growing cold because of all the wickedness that would be in the world in the last days, as we are in the last hours of the last days.

But I also think about all those who came before me and also fought with the brute beasts of this world, even Jesus and all the apostles had to deal with this burden. But in order to fight and stand up for the Truth, you have to be willing to go to war. And that reminds me of what the Lord says here about counting the cost....

Luke 14:27-31[SUP] "[/SUP]And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?



If you decide to take up the sword of the Spirit and put on the full armour of God and preach the gospel, you had also better be ready to war against a far greater number than yourselves. But if God is for you, then what army on earth or in hell could ever stand against you?

 

[Grace777x70]

I have said many times in different threads that the book of Hebrews was written to...wait for it...Hebrews.

In context there are some Jews ( Hebrews ) that are believers in the Messiah and some ( Hebrews ) that are not. Those that are believers are "in Christ". If this fact bothers people - then so be it.

Not all scripture is written "to" us - but all scripture is written "for" us to learn from.

When Jesus said to the Pharisees "You brood of vipers" - we do not apply that to the disciples. That is not in context of who Jesus was speaking to.

We need to learn to NOT take someone else's medicine when reading the scriptures

We must interpret all scripture through the finished works of Christ or we end up mixing up the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. If this bothers people - then so be it too.

I'm stating my beliefs and if people want to "twist" what I say to make it something other then what was really said - that is being deceitful - no matter who we are. I have a pure conscience before my Lord.

Now I am officially out of this den of iniquity for a thread and will not be coming back. People can feel free to slander others in the body of Christ as much as they want if they have a doctrinal difference of opinion on some subjects.

1Cor. 15:33

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with you so very much, but I agree knowing how lost to truth I have been in life too, and one thing I don't think anyone can deny is that everyone here is trying to stand up for what they think is truth in love, if we didn't try to share it then we wouldn't be doing what we are called to do and share the absolutely amazing gift that God gave to this completely undeserving broken man. I agree with you that God's word is not to be lightly regarded, nor taught wrong, I honestly think you are doing a good job pointing out what you disagree with and where JP's teachings conflict and some times are opposite of what His word says. I also STRONGLY believe there is Truth in life, and is not just a subjective matter and just "to each his own", but I say that as one who once saw the world's definition of "love and tolerance" as true. I mean who where we to tell someone "you're wrong", I mean how much more arrogant can you get than to say "you're wrong". We have to come to truth on our own, and we have to be patient and never give up. Maybe take a step back every now and then, so we don't just get in the habit of fighting only.
Everyone have a nice day.

It would be nice if we could actually discuss scripture. And if we disagree on a point, Move on to the next point.

Sadly for some reason it seems this is not what people want to do. They want to judge people who are not here, Plaster people in that "mold" even though they may not even follow that person closely. And judge them,,

No one wants to discuss the word anymore.. It is my way or the highway, if you do not agree with me, Well lets see, I was called mentally ill today, but the same person who called me mentally ill months ago,, I guess he did not learn..

But I get your point and agree with it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh, I agree, and I do get battle fatigue from this constant warfare, and it is warfare between the spirit of this world and the Spirit of God. Not many have the stomach for it, and I do have to step away from this constant back and forth because it is vexation of the Spirit. And I know what the scriptures say about the love of many growing cold because of all the wickedness that would be in the world in the last days, as we are in the last hours of the last days.

But I also think about all those who came before me and also fought with the brute beasts of this world, even Jesus and all the apostles had to deal with this burden. But in order to fight and stand up for the Truth, you have to be willing to go to war. And that reminds me of what the Lord says here about counting the cost....

Luke 14:27-31[SUP] "[/SUP]And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?



If you decide to take up the sword of the Spirit and put on the full armour of God and preach the gospel, you had also better be ready to war against a far greater number than yourselves. But if God is for you, then what army on earth or in hell could ever stand against you?

proof in point.

What does it mean to "carry ones Cross"

By using the way in which ISIT is using it here, one would have to think the only way to heaven is to do this completely. In which case, Anyone who is humble enough would have to admit, if this was true no one would make it, Because how many of us are others focused 24/7, and never have any attitude or make decisions based on how it will affect me, no matter how it affects others.

well carrying your cross in my mind is sacrificial emptying of ones thoughts, desires, or own needs in the work of serving others (ie, placing the needs of others above your own needs 24/7)

how many of us can do this? No one, Thats why we are required to seek after God, and go to our abba father when our minds come of him and others and go on self. no matter how small the matter may seem, Because in Gods eyes, at that moment, you have sinned against not only him, but the one or ones, you were supposed to serve.

oh an ps.

Our war is not against flesh and blood (other people ) but against principalities and powers..

We do not go to war with people. We love them sacrificially.. That is what God requires. So going to war with people is NOT picking up your cross.

 

[Jimbone]

It would be nice if we could actually discuss scripture. And if we disagree on a point, Move on to the next point.

Sadly for some reason it seems this is not what people want to do. They want to judge people who are not here, Plaster people in that "mold" even though they may not even follow that person closely. And judge them,,

No one wants to discuss the word anymore.. It is my way or the highway, if you do not agree with me, Well lets see, I was called mentally ill today, but the same person who called me mentally ill months ago,, I guess he did not learn..

But I get your point and agree with it..

I know man, and am guilty of causing contention far too often myself, so I understand first hand, I mean this is Jesus we are talking about here, if we were not emotional about Him that would be a bigger problem. I just find myself concentrating more on being right and a lot less of getting to know someone. That's me I'm talking about obviously, but kind of the "style" of interaction I see here far to often really. I hate being part of it even more. Yes I agree there is a TRUTH in reality, and Jesus is that TRUTH, and we have to let Him show us who He is. That's all, it would just be cool if we could come together in respect and be able to have healthy conversation about God and Truth, but then again world peace would be nice too. It's just a thought I thought was worth putting out there.