Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

[mailmandan]

Good meme, you didnt read 1 Cor 6:9, it says those who DO these things. No magic coverings

Those who practice such things (Galatians 5:19-21) which is 'descriptive' of the unrighteous. (1 Corinthians 6:9)

And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God (1 Corinthians 6:11) which is 'descriptive' of the righteous.

 

[Snacks]

Okay, I'll get right on that.

I doubt it.

 

[HeIsHere]

Here is a good dividing line question: Can idolaters inherit the kingdom of God? What about adulterers, fornicators, effeminate, homosexuals, greedy, thieves, etc? According to Paul, the answer is NO, do not be deceived by any preacher who tells you such. 1 Cor 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21

Good dividing line question.

We are all guilty and therefore none of us can inherit the kingdom of God, it is only by the righteousness of Jesus that we gain entry,

However, in context of this passage Paul is telling them to not go back to what they were, they have been justified they have a new nature they can live in, their bodies have a higher calling to serve the Lord.

 

[HeIsHere]

Thats not what faith is for. Thats not what faith does.
We are perfect in the Father's eyes when the Father views us through the blood of His Son. It is faith, not works, that makes this possible. Faith in the power of Jesus' blood.

You are making the argument that faith makes one have good works, follow this to its logical conclusion.
You cannot specify how many good works must be borne out of faith to be "true" faith so then since Jesus was perfect this faith should necessitate perfection.

You see this thinking that works must proceed from faith, to be genuine faith, is actually at the root of those who preach being sinless.
It is the logical conclusion.

James never once was speaking about people who professed and were not saved with less than authentic faith.

James was addressing people who were saved and were not putting their faith to work, it was dead, not working.

 

[oyster67]

You are making the argument that faith makes one have good works

I am. It is the evidence of God working through us.
True faith is always evidenced by good works following. Lack of works is evidence that true faith is not present.

follow this to its logical conclusion.

Yes, lets do that.

You cannot specify how many good works must be borne out of faith to be "true" faith

It doesn't matter. God will use us however, whenever, and wherever He sees fit. The point is that He will use us.
It is not neccesary for you to keep a score card and compare your works against mine. We do not need to judge one another and compare ourselves with each other. In fact, this is vain and sinful.

this faith should necessitate perfection.

When we place our faith in Jesus, the Father sees the Son's perfection covering us.

You see this thinking that works must proceed from faith, to be genuine faith

Yes, brother. I pray that you will see it also.

...is actually at the root of those who preach being sinless.

It is not. We are to fight the good fight until the day we are glorified. We are justified by faith, not works.

It seems that your focus on works has led you into great confusions.

It is the logical conclusion.

On the contrary, your previous statements are very illogical.

James never once was speaking about people who professed and were not saved with less than authentic faith.

Pretty sure he was.

James was addressing people who were saved and were not putting their faith to work, it was dead, not working.

James was addressing people who did not possess true faith. There was no true faith for works to grow forth from. Dead faith was not working because true faith was not present.

 

[HeIsHere]

James was addressing people who did not possess true faith.

Based on what?

Where is your evidence, you need this to make this faulty interpretation work. So what is the proof?

 

[Mem]

Ecclesaiates 9:6 defines death coming to good or bad and says, "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten.
And I think Jesus alludes to death when He said in John 9:4, "While it is daytime, we must do the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work."

Obviously the descriptive "dead" relative to work is used in a metaphoric sense comparative to death, specifically and exactly, rather than any sort of stage of a life cycle.

That is, dead faith doesn't work (i.e., cannot do anything, and therefore cannot save).

 

[oyster67]

Based on what?

Where is your evidence, you need this to make this faulty interpretation work. So what is the proof?

James 2:20 “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?”

 

[HeIsHere]

James 2:20 “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?”

Yup, translation: "If your faith is not being put to good use (doing works) it not useful/dead"

He goes on to give the illustration of Abraham and Rahab.

Next.

 

[oyster67]

Yup, translation: "If your faith is not being put to good use (doing works) it not useful/dead"

He goes on to give the illustration of Abraham and Rahab.

Next.

Correct. Good job with that.

 

[HeIsHere]

Ecclesaiates 9:6 defines death coming to good or bad and says, "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing. They have no further reward, because the memory of them is forgotten.
And I think Jesus alludes to death when He said in John 9:4, "While it is daytime, we must do the works of Him who sent Me. Night is coming, when no one can work."

Obviously the descriptive "dead" relative to work is used in a metaphoric sense comparative to death, specifically and exactly, rather than any sort of stage of a life cycle.

That is, dead faith doesn't work (i.e., cannot do anything, and therefore cannot save).

Not always a good idea to look at another writer, different context to understand the use a word within a different context.

 

[Komentaja]

Good dividing line question.

We are all guilty and therefore none of us can inherit the kingdom of God, it is only by the righteousness of Jesus that we gain entry,

However, in context of this passage Paul is telling them to not go back to what they were, they have been justified they have a new nature they can live in, their bodies have a higher calling to serve the Lord.

So Paul REALLY was saying: "we are all guilty and therefore none of us can inherit the kingdom of God. and such ARE (not were as it says) all of you." "but dont worry doe, cause Jesus lets us in because we have been justified by believing that Jesus died for us!"

 

[HeIsHere]

Correct. Good job with that.

You are funny!!

I least I earned some praise today.

 

[HeIsHere]

So Paul REALLY was saying: "we are all guilty and therefore none of us can inherit the kingdom of God. and such ARE (not were as it says) all of you." "but dont worry doe, cause Jesus lets us in because we have been justified by believing that Jesus died for us!"

I am not sure what is your point here.

Do you believe Jesus paid the debt for all sin, past present and future?

 

[HeIsHere]

Correct. Good job with that.

Don't worry that does not mean salvation can be lost or forsaken.

Works do not save, neither can they forfeit.

 

[oyster67]

Do you believe Jesus paid the debt for all sin, past present and future?

He paid the price, but we must continue in faith. We must cash in the check.
Salvation is not a license to turn back and live for self. It's a heart thing.

 

[HeIsHere]

He paid the price, but we must continue in faith. We must cash in the check.
Salvation is not a license to turn back and live for self. It's a heart thing.

Pointless to continue, but in case anyone is persuaded by what you have written.

You make faithfulness a condition, that is incorrect.
Jesus is faithful, we fail.
Again there is NO objective measure for amount of faithfulness so this dogma cannot be true.

We simply cannot earn/keep our salvation by our behaviour.
Full stop!

 

[oyster67]

Works do not save, neither can they forfeit.

Correct. Salvation is forfeited when one willfully turns away from the faith. Apostacy is a decision, not a work.

Hebrews 10:29
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

Hebrews 6:
3And this will we do, if God permit. 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[Mem]

Not always a good idea to look at another writer, different context to understand the use a word within a different context.

These verses are all within the context of the bible.

 

[HeIsHere]

Correct. Salvation is forfeited when one willfully turns away from the faith. Apostacy is a decision, not a work.

Hebrews 10:29
“Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

Hebrews 6:
3And this will we do, if God permit. 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

We cannot un-decide salvation either. Salvation was not earned by a personal decision. It was received, big difference.

This passage is about believers who did not understand "born again" is a one time event and were trying to repeat ity like a ritual.

This place is very sad how it misrepresents scripture to fit a narrative.

Anyway you are free to believe what you want but God desires we take a stand in agreement with Him on what He has stated as Truth.
You deny yourself.