KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

[Joseppi]

Coming from someone who said the Holy Spirit is only a name.

I didn’t say that.

It it is interesting to read how some treat people as falsely as they do the Authorized Holy Bible.

 

[KJV1611]

I can see that in the KJV, ESV, NIV, NASB, YLT, NKJV, &c.

I'm interested, give me some examples.

 

[trofimus]

We get these ideas from reading the bible. I don't think that every time the number 7 is used in the bible it's always about completion but the general sense is that the number 7 in the bible represents completeness.

This is the point I'm trying to make, I'm not saying one way or another about what the end of the world was.

Any proof of that general sense?

Any proof that its 7times and not 10times in the KJV?

What about NIV having "last days" 14times. Coincidence?

 

[KJV1611]

In NIV, "last day/s" is present 14times. Its 2*7.

Huh... now what, we have another inspiration pattern?

Did they translate the same original word differently to make that number?

 

[trofimus]

Did they translate the same original word differently to make that number?

I do not know Hebrew, so I cannot tell.

How do you know that the KJV translated different original words, if you cant read Hebrew?

 

[KJV1611]

Your personal belief is not a standard for the common church...

And if you believe that 7 means completness, it should be 77, not 66. Be consistent.

I think God is sovereign and dictates how many books end up as scripture. Maybe not though, mabe he wanted 72 but the church decided 66 was better lol.

Most people understand that the number 7 means completeness.

 

[KJV1611]

I do not know Hebrew, so I cannot tell.

How do you know that the KJV translated different original words, if you cant read Hebrew?

I can read a dictionary.

 

[KJV1611]

... which are in all Bibles, not just the KJV. The problem is not that you have a standard. The problem is that you toss your standard aside when it's not convenient for you to apply it.

Aside from word and phrase counts, every assertion you make for the KJV being inspired can be applied to other translations. I consider such counts irrelevant because it hasn't been proven that they exist in the original languages.

Give some examples that really stand out like translating pascha as Easter in the book of Acts as the KV translators did to mark the one and only occurence of pascha after it had been fulfilled.

 

[Dino246]

The phrase “Holy Spirit” denotes a name, as I stated previously. A name refers to a person.
That name is used but one time in the Authorized.

Why is the phrase “Holy Spirit” used once?
To avoid any confusion as to function and as to whom the Holy Ghost is.

Do you know why the name Holy Ghost is used?

I don't hold the KJV as inspired, pure, or perfect, so I am quite ambivalent about why it uses "Holy Spirit" only once. I suspect this has no real meaning and is an oversight of the KJV translators.

Incidentally, "Holy Spirit" appears once with that exact capitalization. It appears seven times overall. The Greek doesn't have different words behind "ghost" and "spirit" so I see no reason why the English should have such.

 

[trofimus]

I think God is sovereign and dictates how many books end up as scripture. Maybe not though, mabe he wanted 72 but the church decided 66 was better lol.

Most people understand that the number 7 means completeness.

If 7 means completness, a complete Bible must be 77 books. Logically.

I do not know why are you trying to avoid conclusions of your own arguments...

 

[trofimus]

I can read a dictionary.

So you can verify it for NIV too.

 

[KJV1611]

If 7 means completness, a complete Bible must be 77 books. Logically.

I do not know why do you try to avoid conclusions of your own arguments...

Maybe by the wisdom of this world.

7 means completeness... it just is.

 

[trofimus]

Maybe by the wisdom of this world.

7 means completeness... it just is.

Then a complete Bible has 77 books. Or some number that can be divided by 7. Pattern.

 

[SovereignGrace]

I'm interested, give me some examples.

Well, my pastor only uses a KJV, but he nor the church is KJVO. Some use an NIV, others use the ESV. One other member solely uses a KJV.

Now, I usually take my NASB to church with many. Many verses he reads read word-for-word with his KJV. Others are the same, except my NASB may say ’know’ where the KJV uses ‘knowest’, ‘knoweth’.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Give some examples that really stand out like translating pascha as Easter in the book of Acts as the KV translators did to mark the one and only occurence of pascha after it had been fulfilled.

Easter is about a pagan fertility goddess.

 

[Musicus]

You are mistaken. You are probably thinking that phrases suc as, holy Spirit...etc... equate, but they don’t.
”Holy Spirit” is a name, not a descriptive phrase.

Here's your statement restated:

"Holy Spirit" is not a descriptive phrase.
Therefore, the Holy Spirit is not "spirit"; or,
the Holy Spirit is not holy; or,
the Holy Spirit is neither holy nor "spirit".

Any other blasphemy you wish to add to that before you are written off as a heretic?

Holy Spirit (proper noun) is the name of a holy (adj.) spirit (improper noun), but holy spirit is not a name (proper noun) at all. Joseppi may not have stated this correctly, but he's not wrong nonetheless.

His point I believe, and mine also, is that one must be careful when entering key words in word search programs, and also careful when analyzing the results.

 

[Dino246]

Maybe by the wisdom of this world.

7 means completeness... it just is.

There isn't a single verse in Scripture that states that "seven" or "7" means "completeness". While plausible and logical, it is still only an inference and as such should not be the basis for doctrinal assertions. It is just as plausible to consider 3, 4 and 12 as meaning "completeness" for each is used in that sense. It is far better to take the approach that 7 may be used to signify "completeness" in certain cases. I would suggest that anything that requires stretching to make it fit... doesn't fit. That includes any word counts in English.

 

[Dino246]

Holy Spirit (proper noun) is the name of a holy (adj.) spirit (improper noun), but holy spirit is not a name (proper noun) at all. Joseppi may not have stated this correctly, but he's not wrong nonetheless.

His point I believe, and mine also, is that one must be careful when entering key words in word search programs, and also careful when analyzing the results.

I agree... and when Joseppi learns not to be a dogmatic, closed-minded, insulting jack-donkey about every little issue, then I might give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[KJV1611]

So you can verify it for NIV too.

I tried to check it in the NIV but I could find any tools that would let me search for pneuma in the NIV, it kept changing over to the KJV.

 

[KJV1611]

If 7 means completness, a complete Bible must be 77 books. Logically.

I do not know why are you trying to avoid conclusions of your own arguments...

I'm not avoiding conclusions of my own arguments. The number 7 indicates completeness, that doesn't mean everything completed in the bible has the number 7 attached to it.