KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 23, 2017
79
8
8
I would like some help figuring out the Ahaziah thing.

In verse 24 Ahaziah is Joram's son. I'm assuming this is Joram the son of Ahab.
In verse 25 Ahaziah is Jehoram's son. I'm assuming this is Jehoram son of Jehoshaphat.

Any thoughts on this?

2 Kings 8:24-25 King James Version (KJV)

24 And Joram slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David: and Ahaziah his son reigned in his stead.
25 In the twelfth year of Joram the son of Ahab king of Israel did Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah begin to reign.
From how I'm reading it, it appears your assumptions are correct in that Joram was the son of Ahab (vv. 16; 25, NKJV) & Jehoram was the son of Jehoshaphat (v. 16, NKJV). Apparently, there are two Ahaziahs: Ahaziah, son of Joram, son of Ahab, king of Israel; AND Ahaziah, son of Jehoram, king of Judah.

Does this help?
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
From how I'm reading it, it appears your assumptions are correct in that Joram was the son of Ahab (vv. 16; 25, NKJV) & Jehoram was the son of Jehoshaphat (v. 16, NKJV). Apparently, there are two Ahaziahs: Ahaziah, son of Joram, son of Ahab, king of Israel; AND Ahaziah, son of Jehoram, king of Judah.

Does this help?
Yes thank you.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
I take back what I said about the KJV POSSIBLY having an error. SHAME SHAME SHAME on me for ever thinking for one minute that it was wrong.
 

nddreamer

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2017
142
4
18
In 2 Chron. 21:1, Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat begins to reign. In verse 4, he kills all of his brothers. In verse 17, all of Jehoram's sons were taken away except Jehoahaz, the youngest which was probably still very young when his father died. In 2 Chron. 22:2, Ahaziah begins to reign at the age of 42. He can't be Jehoram's son or his brother. In 22:1, he is the youngest son. Could he be Jehoshaphat's brother or the youngest son of Asa.
In 2 Chron. 14:1, Asa is said to be the son of Abijah (Abijam) but they were actually brothers because they had the same mother (1 Kings 15:2, 10). Apparently when it's written that the reigning king is the son of the previous king, it can mean one of the previous kings. So Ahaziah could be Jehoshaphat's brother or the son of Asa.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,952
113
Because the English Anglo/Saxon language originally derived from the Germanic, there are many similarities between German and English. Many English writers have referred to the German language as the "Mother Tongue!" The English word Easter is of German/Saxon origin and not Babylonian as Alexander Hislop falsely claimed. The German equivalent is Oster. Oster (Ostern being the modern day equivalent) is related to Ost which means the rising of the sun, or simply in English, east. Oster comes from the old Teutonic form of auferstehen / auferstehung, which means resurrection, which in the older Teutonic form comes from two words, Ester meaning first, and stehen meaning to stand. These two words combine to form erstehen which is an old German form of auferstehen, the modern day German word for resurrection.7(Italics in original)

Not sure where you get this word "Ester" from. It certainly doesn't mean "first" which is the word "erst." Very different!

Ester is a word in German, it is a masculine noun from chemistry - ester. As in organic chemistry, if my memory serves me.

So, no to ester combining with stehen! That would mean something like "first standing" I think, if the word was erst, or basically nothing!

As for rrstehen being some kind of old German, in fact, it is a transitive verb, meaning to buy, get up, or as an intransitive verb, "to rise up." So perhaps this site you copied and pasted from is meaning that?

(I guess you forgot we are all trying to put links and sources up when we quote something? Here, I will do it for you!

https://answersingenesis.org/holidays/easter/is-the-name-easter-of-pagan-origin/

The only trouble is with this source, is that if fails to mention where it got its material from. Even if the word "ester" was used in the 15th century for Easter, that does not make it a German source. And certainly, ester never means "first." I think someone had a typo problem with that.

As far as auferstehen and Auferstehung (noun feminine) yes they do mean "resurrected" and "resurrection" respectively. However, I really have to doubt the source completely, because the noun is not capitalized, which shows whoever wrote this has no knowledge of German. I knew this in high school German. It is one of the most basic, and inflexible rules of German grammar. Nouns are IMMER (ALWAYS) capitalized. Pronouns, not so much, especially ich.

Anyway, even had the author of this article got this right, I still fail to see any connection between the word "Easter" and Auferstehung. They are not in any way, shape or form grammatically or linguistically similar. So, that takes you back to pagan sources, or the "eastern" idea, which is really "östlich." Again, not much linguistically in common with Easter, without a big stretch.

Nice my German has progressed so far this year. By the way, I can ask my German professor, if anyone wants. Although whether she knows anything about the etymology of words in the KJV, I do not know! LOL

Source: Collins German Dictionary 2016. 2100 page.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,047
1,609
113
I think that considering Herod arrested them in the days of unleavened bread the passover was past(Jewish) and the only day that Herod would have seen to have been about to be coming and would wait for to pass was pagan...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
Acts 12:4 When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four [fn]squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people.


What pagan holiday/celebration was being held in Jerusalem after Passover?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,047
1,609
113
Acts 12:4 When he had seized him, he put him in prison, delivering him to four [fn]squads of soldiers to guard him, intending after the Passover to bring him out before the people.


What pagan holiday/celebration was being held in Jerusalem after Passover?

Acts 12:3 Acts 12 Interlinear Bible the passover is on Nisan 14 and then the days of unleavened bread follow afterwards and also at the same time the pagan day easter(few days later), so as to the Jewish beliefs passover happened before they werre arrested,hence Herod was waiting for the pagan easter not the Jewish passover...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
The whole feast is being termed Passover soandso

Mark 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

He wouldn't bring them before the people until the days of leavened bread were over.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
the pagan day easter(few days later), so as to the Jewish beliefs passover happened before they werre arrested,hence Herod was waiting for the pagan easter not the Jewish passover...
So you are saying that a pagan easter was being celebrated in Jerusalem - what source with any authority are you going to cite for this claim?

Does Josephus mention easter being celebrated in Jerusalem?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,047
1,609
113
The whole feast is being termed Passover soandso

Mark 14:1 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

He wouldn't bring them before the people until the days of leavened bread were over.

Thats odd though isn't it in that they had no problem Crucifying my Lord during those days passover and all,,,so back to "the days of unleavened bread" and Peter and James...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
You are aware of the Greek behind King Jim lads translators?

 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,047
1,609
113
You are aware of the Greek behind King Jim lads translators?

first do you agree that they would kill on the passover and the days of unleavened bread (Jesus crucifixion as proof),,,?
 
Last edited:

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
That's beside the point - just because they killed Jesus at Passover does not mean they had the same motivation or reasoning with Peter - we can only read what's in the text - anything else is speculation trying to defend a claim that a pagan easter was being celebrated rather than was is stated "pascha".
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,047
1,609
113
That's beside the point - just because they killed Jesus at Passover does not mean they had the same motivation or reasoning with Peter - we can only read what's in the text - anything else is speculation trying to defend a claim that a pagan easter was being celebrated rather than was is stated "pascha".

lol, refresh my memory what day was it Paul went to Jerusalem wasn't it "by passover"? and what were they wanting to do,, to him kill him right? They had no problem killing on the passover or the days of unleavened bread you chasing your tail...
 

Joseppi

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2018
887
7
18
You are aware of the Greek behind King Jim lads translators?

Because the feast of passover was over, and then was the days of Unleavened Bread, and the word pascha was used, therefore, the reference is to the resurrection of the passover lamb (alternate definition) which by direct understanding is what we call Easter.

As to a pagan Easter? I have yet to see proof of any such feast in Roman times, nor today.
What I have noted is the pagan notion of the spring equinox. But that is a sun related astronomical date not a moon date as is passover.

Common sense reading of the Acts narrative isn’t confusing or that puzzling.
Luke knew what occurred and signified the resurrection of Jesus as our pascha. A credible association and understandable.

As noted, killing Christians pleased the Jews whenever it was done. So, it makes good sense politically to judge and kill Peter for the Jews attending the unleavened bread in large numbers, and to do the deed on the the day after the Christian Easter was a devilish plan.

To me Easter means Christ was risen.early in the morning and he will return to get us from the east. That’s my understanding.
 
Last edited:
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
In 2 Chron. 21:1, Jehoram the son of Jehoshaphat begins to reign. In verse 4, he kills all of his brothers. In verse 17, all of Jehoram's sons were taken away except Jehoahaz, the youngest which was probably still very young when his father died. In 2 Chron. 22:2, Ahaziah begins to reign at the age of 42. He can't be Jehoram's son or his brother. In 22:1, he is the youngest son. Could he be Jehoshaphat's brother or the youngest son of Asa.
In 2 Chron. 14:1, Asa is said to be the son of Abijah (Abijam) but they were actually brothers because they had the same mother (1 Kings 15:2, 10). Apparently when it's written that the reigning king is the son of the previous king, it can mean one of the previous kings. So Ahaziah could be Jehoshaphat's brother or the son of Asa.
The only way that the 2 Chronicles account can be right is for Jehoahaz to be another name for Ahaziah because in 2 Chronicles 22:1 we are told that Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah reigned after Jehoram.

2 Chronicles 22 King James Version (KJV)

22 And the inhabitants of Jerusalem made Ahaziah his youngest son king in his stead: for the band of men that came with the Arabians to the camp had slain all the eldest. So Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah reigned.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
Is this yet ANOTHER mistake in the bible? :confused:
How did the SAME AHAZIAH begin to reign at 22 years old and 42 years old?
How did the SAME AHAZIAH begin to reign in the 11th year and 12th year of Joram the son of Ahab?
No fear, neither are a mistake but I would like to see how the KJV doubters handle this.

2Ki 8:25 In the twelfth year of Joram the son of Ahab king of Israel did Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah begin to reign.

2Ki 9:29 And in the eleventh year of Joram the son of Ahab began Ahaziah to reign over Judah.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
This appears to be another mistake.

How did the same Jehoram die from an arrow in the heart at the same time he died from a bowel disease given to him by God?

2Ki 9:24 And Jehu drew a bow with his full strength, and smote Jehoram between his arms, and the arrow went out at his heart, and he sunk down in his chariot.

2Ch 21:19And it came to pass, that in process of time, after the end of two years, his (Jehoram) bowels fell out by reason of his sickness: so he died of sored iseases. And his people made no burning for him, like the burning of his fathers.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,863
13,465
113
Because the feast of passover was over, and then was the days of Unleavened Bread, and the word pascha was used, therefore, the reference is to the resurrection of the passover lamb (alternate definition) which by direct understanding is what we call Easter.

As to a pagan Easter? I have yet to see proof of any such feast in Roman times, nor today.
What I have noted is the pagan notion of the spring equinox. But that is a sun related astronomical date not a moon date as is passover.

Common sense reading of the Acts narrative isn’t confusing or that puzzling.
Luke knew what occurred and signified the resurrection of Jesus as our pascha. A credible association and understandable.

As noted, killing Christians pleased the Jews whenever it was done. So, it makes good sense politically to judge and kill Peter for the Jews attending the unleavened bread in large numbers, and to do the deed on the the day after the Christian Easter was a devilish plan.

To me Easter means Christ was risen.early in the morning and he will return to get us from the east. That’s my understanding.
If "pascha" meaning "the Passover Lamb" referred to an event and not a person would your explanation make sense.

It makes no sense that Herod intended after "the Passover Lamb" to bring Peter out before the people.

Further, you are asserting that "the Christian Easter" happened sometime after the Jewish Passover. That doesn't follow either, because at the same time you're asserting that Jesus is the fulfillment of Passover. Separating the two events chronologically is not supported. Only after the Catholic church started monkeying with holidays did Easter get separated from Passover. Also, there is no evidence that there was any such thing as "the Christian Easter" in the first decade of Christianity.

By the way, I see less dogmatism and harshness in your post, and I appreciate the change. :)
 
Last edited: