KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#81
When bibles disagree, how is one to determine which text is correct?

Hello again to those who know me.... especially trof which btw I'm not back yet my friend.
Hello friend :)

I would say - by the Greek text.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#83
Are you a philologist John? Have you studied the entire history of the English language?


This is PURE ENGLISH.
i'd just like to interject that i find it quite amusing seeing the Englishwoman taken aback by the American's presumption concerning the 'mother tongue'

;)
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#84
Hello friend :)

I would say - by the Greek text.
i don't know Greek so I would have to let someone tell me what it means I guess. Seems like God wouldn't do it that way.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,261
5,618
113
#85
If I object to specific words or verses from an original work having their meaning substantially altered in a later copy, how does this then demonstrate a mere personal preference of one work over the other because I choose the truth over a poorly plagiarized version. The Bible is not just any book. You can't change a word here or a phrase there and call it your own version of the truth and not expect some serious blow-back.



How many more times? By that reasoning we should only be using Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. Translation is not plagiarism.

I explained the fear/torment verse to you. You have chosen to ignore that. The meaning is the same in a dozen translations. You simply fail to understand the old English use of the word 'torment'. Languages change over time. All languages including English, it's a fact not an evil plot. If you want a bible that says only what you want it to say perhaps you should write your own.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#86
I agree that this can be a problem with modern English.

Good Bible translation into English should have commentary in such important places about what is in Greek.

mayhap we should incorporate Appalachian dialectical pronouns like "y'all" and "you-uns" or "abody"

i grew up in hillbilly country & understand these things perfectly well & naturally. the American "hillbilly" English is I'm told actually the closest to old English of all American regional speech ((owing to their relative isolation after immigration)), and the presence of such plural and non-specific forms of pronouns in it is one example relevant to this particular topic.

yes, a hillbilly translation please.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#88
i don't know Greek so I would have to let someone tell me what it means I guess. Seems like God wouldn't do it that way.
I do not think that Christians are supposed to individually discover and decide every detail.

Church is a body. One knows Greek, another one know something else. We complement each other.

Its not just you and Bible. Thats what God did not intend for us.

BTW you let someone else to tell you what it means, the only reason is that you trust people from 17th century and most Christians trust people from 21st century.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,098
113
#89
i don't know Greek so I would have to let someone tell me what it means I guess. Seems like God wouldn't do it that way.
that's just what happens when you & i read any translation. we are trusting one group of scholars or another to tell us what it means.

but trusting one group of scholars and distrusting another isn't 'trusting God' -- trusting God in this is harkening to the Spirit that teaches us when we read -- even were we fluent in Hebrew and Koine, without His help, though we comprehend each word, we would not have understanding. ((re: Acts 8:30-31))
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#90
I have a friend who is KJVO re his own reading; but has no desire to impose his preference on others.

We often study the Bible together and/or with others. When other translations are referenced, well over 98% of the time there are no misunderstandings. I have observed that there is the same level of misunderstandings among groups using the same version even if that version s the KJV.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#91
When bibles disagree, how is one to determine which text is correct?

Hello again to those who know me.... especially trof which btw I'm not back yet my friend.
Welcome back-but-not-back... :)

Yours is a good question. I would say either learn the original languages (or at least enough to use the references), or consult several versions to get a sense of the range of possible meanings. If you choose to go with one version, hold lightly the conclusions you draw.

The one thing that should not be done is to say, on the basis of any single translation, that another translation is wrong.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#92
I do not think that Christians are supposed to individually discover and decide every detail.

Church is a body. One knows Greek, another one know something else. We complement each other.

Its not just you and Bible. Thats what God did not intend for us.

BTW you let someone else to tell you what it means, the only reason is that you trust people from 17th century and most Christians trust people from 21st century.
i would disagree with the last part, English is my language and I understand it well. When some one tells me "hate" doesn't really mean hate, I can call bull.

Do the same with the Greek word for hate and I have no clue if you're telling me the truth or not and sadly neither does the Greek scholar, he's basing a whole language understanding on a flipping dictionary.
 

nddreamer

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2017
142
4
18
#93
You said that languages or the meanings of words change over time. So it's perfectly acceptable to write a new Bible according to the modern understanding of terms, changing the interpretation to suit your fancy. You're the one who should write your own Bible to say what you want it to say. Oh, but you already have one. I'll stick with the one I have, thank you.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,261
5,618
113
#94
You said that languages or the meanings of words change over time. So it's perfectly acceptable to write a new Bible according to the modern understanding of terms, changing the interpretation to suit your fancy. You're the one who should write your own Bible to say what you want it to say. Oh, but you already have one. I'll stick with the one I have, thank you.
Updating the language does not change the interpretation. You have your terms mixed up. You misunderstood a verse which is not even a difficult one and you are happy with that. You are free to read whichever text you like. Just stop thumbing your nose at modern translations and blaming them for your own mistakes.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#96
i would disagree with the last part, English is my language and I understand it well. When some one tells me "hate" doesn't really mean hate, I can call bull.

Do the same with the Greek word for hate and I have no clue if you're telling me the truth or not and sadly neither does the Greek scholar, he's basing a whole language understanding on a flipping dictionary.
It is a basic principle of Bible interpretation that Scripture does NOT contradict Scripture. When an apparent contradiction is found, it is necessary to look for another reading, consistent with common usage, that resolves the conflict. There will ALWAYS be one.

Ex 20:12
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
KJV


Luke 14:26
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
KJV


Hate usually means detest or despise. However this reading is at variance with Ex 20:12.

A secondary meaning of hate in Elizabethan English was to love less or to regard as less important or worthy.

While this meaning has fallen into disuse, it resolves the conflict and is the preferable reading.
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#97

mayhap we should incorporate Appalachian dialectical pronouns like "y'all" and "you-uns" or "abody"

i grew up in hillbilly country & understand these things perfectly well & naturally. the American "hillbilly" English is I'm told actually the closest to old English of all American regional speech ((owing to their relative isolation after immigration)), and the presence of such plural and non-specific forms of pronouns in it is one example relevant to this particular topic.

yes, a hillbilly translation please.
I was raised in Kaintuck and live in West Virginny now. I will spearhead yer project. AKA head translator.
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
63
#98
And He broke the corn pone and gave it to His fellers. Then He blessed the moonshine...


I pray no one is offended. I meant this is jest only.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
113
#99
It is a basic principle of Bible interpretation that Scripture does NOT contradict Scripture. When an apparent contradiction is found, it is necessary to look for another reading, consistent with common usage, that resolves the conflict. There will ALWAYS be one.

Ex 20:12
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. KJV

Luke 14:26
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. KJV

Hate usually means detest or despise. However this reading is at variance with Ex 20:12.

A secondary meaning of hate in Elizabethan English was to love less or to regard as less important or worthy.

While this meaning has fallen into disuse, it resolves the conflict and is the preferable reading.
Thanks for this, Marc... I've thought about telling some of the KJV-onlyists not to assume that familiar words or phrases have familiar meanings... I need to consider this as well! :)