KING JAMES VERSION BIBLE VS. MODERN ENGLISH BIBLES

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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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I didn't think you would think that, I trying to get you to see that the human being Jesus was begotten of the Father, he was begotten of the Father in his physical birth, not in eternity past.
I have already explained how the word, [FONT=&quot]γεγέννηκά [/FONT]translated begotten relates here in a previous post.
The physical conception and birth of Jesus Christ does not change this.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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No idea what your edit is supposed to mean...If he "oozed" (your choice of words) out of God, how is that different from "come out" of God???????

As for the first bit: why not try to explain what you think that means theologically. Up until now you are merely stirring the alphabet soup to no actual conclusion...
Explain what what means theologically.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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I have already explained how the word, γεγέννηκά translated begotten relates here in a previous post.
The physical conception and birth of Jesus Christ does not change this.
So what verse are you getting "Jesus came out of the Father" from?
 
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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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Jesus was begotten in birth and he was begotten from death... that's exactly what Hebrews 1:5 is talking about.

Edit: Jesus WAS NOT begotten of the Father some time in eternity past. He did ooze out God some time in eternity past, he did not "come out" of God in eternity past.
What is the point you are trying to make - surely it is not that hard!

Or, is the only thing that you are really trying to say is that the KJV is just right.
If that is the case then all you are doing is shadow-boxing!!!
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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What is the point you are trying to make - surely it is not that hard!

Or, is the only thing that you are really trying to say is that the KJV is just right.
If that is the case then all you are doing is shadow-boxing!!!
This has nothing to do with the KJV, this is common sense. The point I'm making is that Jesus was begotten by God in birth. Or to put it as you put it earlier, Jesus was begotten by God in his resurrection.

If I'm not mistaken, you guys say that "This day have I begotten thee" means that Jesus came out God in eternity past. Which is it, was Jesus begotten by God in eternity past or at the resurrection?
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
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If this is the case then I would suspect that most if not all words have gone the same way. If this is the case, do we really know what any of the Greek words truly meant at the time of their writings?
K....,

This is where committed Christians must..... maintain ...and not allow new age religion thinking or new bible edition changes leading us to sway from orthodox teaching of G-d's word.

We must remember.... The Bible .....does not change...people do, often to satisfy a personal agenda of legacy.

Amen.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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This has nothing to do with the KJV, this is common sense. The point I'm making is that Jesus was begotten by God in birth. Or to put it as you put it earlier, Jesus was begotten by God in his resurrection.

If I'm not mistaken, you guys say that "This day have I begotten thee" means that Jesus came out God in eternity past. Which is it, was Jesus begotten by God in eternity past or at the resurrection?
It means both - go back and read Ps 2.

And you still not telling why this is so important to you - in other words what is the theological importance of the distinction as you see it?
 
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KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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It means both - go back and read Ps 2.

And you still not telling why this is so important to you - in other words what is the theological importance of the distinction as you see it?
This is not important to me at all. I was accused of whacked out KJV beliefs because I don't believe the eternal Christ came out God. It's the dumdest discussion I think I've ever been involved in.... but people here insist that Christ came out of God.

I went back and read Psalm 2 which was fulfilled at the first coming of Christ and I saw absolutely nothing that said Jesus came out of God, nothing whatsoever.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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I wanted to edit my previous post, but I ran out of time.

Jesus Christ was NOT begotten in His resurrection.
The quote of Ps 2.17 in Acts is in a verse that is all about Jesus resurrection, but you cannot twist my words to try and imply that what I was saying was that Jesus Christ was begotten in His resurrection!
Again, that is you confusion.
The reference to Ps 2.17 in the context of the verse in Acts that we been talking about is clearly a reference to the divinity and eternality of Jesus Christ and His relationship to the Father.

I will say again that you seem to place an inordinate importance on differentiating Jesus Christ as being separate from God and an inordinate importance on separating Jesus Christ as eternal God and the Jesus who walked on this earth in bodily form?
Why is this?
The same eternal Son of God who always existed is the same person who walked on earth (albeit in a human body) 2000 years ago.
And this same Jesus Christ, although distinct as a person from God the Father, is yet absolutely in union with, and indistinct from the Father in terms of His divinity, because His divinity, as with that of the Holy Spirit, proceeds directly from the Father.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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There's no play on words MarcR. To bring Jesus into existence is to raise him up into existence isn't it?
There is a play on words indeed; though you are correct that His birth rather than the play on words may be intended
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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This is not important to me at all. I was accused of whacked out KJV beliefs because I don't believe the eternal Christ came out God. It's the dumdest discussion I think I've ever been involved in.... but people here insist that Christ came out of God.

I went back and read Psalm 2 which was fulfilled at the first coming of Christ and I saw absolutely nothing that said Jesus came out of God, nothing whatsoever.
So, in your view, if Jesus is God then you believe in two Gods, Jesus Christ and God the Father are two distinct Gods?
Or, is Jesus Christ not God, and therefore some other lesser thing?
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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I wanted to edit my previous post, but I ran out of time.

Jesus Christ was NOT begotten in His resurrection.
The quote of Ps 2.17 in Acts is in a verse that is all about Jesus resurrection, but you cannot twist my words to try and imply that what I was saying was that Jesus Christ was begotten in His resurrection!
Again, that is you confusion.
The reference to Ps 2.17 in the context of the verse in Acts that we been talking about is clearly a reference to the divinity and eternality of Jesus Christ and His relationship to the Father.

I will say again that you seem to place an inordinate importance on differentiating Jesus Christ as being separate from God and an inordinate importance on separating Jesus Christ as eternal God and the Jesus who walked on this earth in bodily form?
Why is this?
The same eternal Son of God who always existed is the same person who walked on earth (albeit in a human body) 2000 years ago.
And this same Jesus Christ, although distinct as a person from God the Father, is yet absolutely in union with, and indistinct from the Father in terms of His divinity, because His divinity, as with that of the Holy Spirit, proceeds directly from the Father.
I'm not saying that Jesus Christ the eternal being is seperate from God at all. I believe they are one in the same just like the bible teaches - one God.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
171
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There's no play on words MarcR. To bring Jesus into existence is to raise him up into existence isn't it?
The play on words in fact plays into Deut 18:15
15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
KJV
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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I'm not saying that Jesus Christ the eternal being is seperate from God at all. I believe they are one in the same just like the bible teaches - one God.
So, does this mean that you are a Modalist, in other words that God just morphs into different forms as needed?
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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So, in your view, if Jesus is God then you believe in two Gods, Jesus Christ and God the Father are two distinct Gods?
Or, is Jesus Christ not God, and therefore some other lesser thing?
There is one God period. God is capable of being the Father in heaven at the same time he is the son earth. God is not bound by space time, he is in heaven and in earth at the same time - One God the Father in heaven, One God the son on Earth at the same time. The same being in two places at the same time... this is quantum physics.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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The play on words in fact plays into Deut 18:15
15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
KJV
Where did God raise that prophet from? Mary's womb.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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So, does this mean that you are a Modalist, in other words that God just morphs into different forms as needed?
No I do not believe that. I believe exactly what the bible teaches, one God and I explained this in a previous response to you that you haven't seen yet.
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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I think the whole purpose for me in this whole ridiculous discussion is for God to show me the true meaning of the Godhead. Quantum physics explains the Godhead to a "T". It removes all ambiguity from scriptures that have made no sense to me in the past.

One God - the EXACT same God in existence as three different persons at exactly the same time.
 
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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
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No I do not believe that. I believe exactly what the bible teaches, one God and I explained this in a previous response to you that you haven't seen yet.
I read the other post as well.
Your position is many centuries old and comes from a discredited theologian called Sabelius.
The most common description of this position today is called unitarianism.
This is not compatible with Biblical Christianity.

It explains a lot about your utterly confused theology - it isn't Christian...
It also has nothing to do with quantum physics.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
83
48
I think the whole purpose for me in this whole ridiculous discussion is for God to show me the true meaning of the Godhead. Quantum physics explains the Godhead to a "T". It removes all ambiguity from scriptures that have made no sense to me in the past.

One God - the EXACT same God in existence as three different persons at exactly the same time.
So, in other words - extrabiblical inspiration!!!!!!!!
Somehow physics explained more about God than the Bible itself, amazing!!!!