King James vs. NIV... confusion

bellapazzesco · Mar 14, 2009

Soooo... I am gettin a bit confused. I have come to realize King James and NIV are wayyy different. One simple word changes the context completely. I have been asking which one to start from... and get arguments from both sides. I understand the NIV better. But, am told King James is what to follow. A lil help?

Baptistrw · Mar 14, 2009

KJV is a formal equivalence and NIV is a dynamic equivalence. KJV is a word for word, NIV more of a thought for thought. KJV is more accurate because of this. But there are other FE translations that are just as good, NKJV, NASB to name 2.

MahogonySnail · Mar 14, 2009

If you spend an hour or so reading these websites:

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=663

http://www.victorious.org/translat.htm

That should help clear up any confusion and why they are different.

I don't think of them as "which one is better", or "which one is the best", but to think of them as different tools for different tasks.

Slepsog4 · Mar 14, 2009

My two favorite verses in the NIV are:

2 Tim. 3:16 "All scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

1 Pet. 4:11 "If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God"

The first acknowledges the nature of Bible inspiration. The second points to the importance of the very words themselves. Sadly, by adopting the dynamic equivalence (read: scientific paraphrase or line by line commentary) this translation fails to do what 1 Peter 4:11 says.

Thoughts are transferred by the words used to convey them. If you change the words, then you change the meaning. The NIV often reorders the words of a text. All too often they even reconstruct the very grammar changing parts of speech.

The old ASV (1901) is a very literal translation that is still available, mostly online. The NKJV, NASB, and the ESV are very readable but essentially literal translations.

bellapazzesco · Mar 14, 2009

why was there equivilent to 30 books left out in the NIV? Do u know? (thanks for responding!)

Thaddaeus · Mar 15, 2009

Baptistrw said:

here is a sample of the way the modern day Bibles change things

John 4:29 (New American Standard Bible)

29"Come, see a man (A)who told me all the things that I have done; (B)this is not the Christ, is it?"
John 4:29 (King James Version)

29Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

this is not the Christ; NASB or is not this the Christ; KJB

I say; is not this the Christ, so I will stick with the KJB. after all It was the Word of God, for about 35o years before we had all the other translations, but now it is to hard for us to understand , is this saying that hundreds of years ago,they were smarter than we are. now I might agrre with that. see God say if we seek wisdom to ask him , but but said let's change His word so we can understand it , what we will do Ask God for wisdom, or change His word ??

also the niv has two different people killing Goliath

2 Samuel 21:19 (New International Version)

19 In another battle with the Philistines at Gob, Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim [a] the Bethlehemite killed Goliath [b] the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod.

Footnotes:

<LI id=fen-NIV-8600a>2 Samuel 21:19 Or son of Jair the weaver
2 Samuel 21:19 Hebrew and Septuagint; 1 Chron. 20:5 son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath

1 Samuel 17:23 (New International Version)

23 As he was talking with them, Goliath, the Philistine champion from Gath, stepped out from his lines and shouted his usual defiance, and David heard it.

1 Samuel 17:51 (New International Version)

51 David ran and stood over him. He took hold of the Philistine's sword and drew it from the scabbard. After he killed him, he cut off his head with the sword.
When the Philistines saw that their hero was dead, they turned and ran.

So a real good translation is one that God who can not lie . has inspired that two people killed the same man :: NOT

Rosinsky · Mar 16, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

There is absolutely no error on either one of these translations. You choosing the KJV over the NIV here is simply a matter of choice and not one of accuracy. I really failed to see the point in posting this verse.

Thaddaeus said:

Did you actually read the footnotes?

If you should make this conclusion about the NIV, you should make the same conclusion about the KJV. THe KJV Reads:

And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

In some of the KJV bibles, you will notice that the brother of is enclosed within brackets. This is to show you that this part is not found in the original text. It is simply added for clarity. The NIV chooses to leave the word in its original state and add a footnote to insert their opinion (which in this case is a valid one).

In light of accuracy in translating according to what the Hebrew text actually reads, the NIV has the accurate translation.

The Hebrew word the KJV translates as "the brother of Goliath" is golyath which is "Goliath." There is absolutely no trace of "the brother of" in the Hebrew.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Sa&c=21&v=19&t=KJV#conc/19

Rosinsky · Mar 16, 2009

Just thought I would paste the verse the NIV linked in their footnote to show you that it is the brother of Goliath.

1 Chronicles 20:5 - In another battle with the Philistines, Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver's rod. (NIV)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=1Ch&c=20&v=5&t=KJV#conc/5

See the Hebrew word "ach" there? That's the word for "the brother" that is clearly missing from 2 Samuel.

Thaddaeus · Mar 16, 2009

Rosinsky said:

There is absolutely no error on either one of these translations. You choosing the KJV over the NIV here is simply a matter of choice and not one of accuracy. I really failed to see the point in posting this verse.

Did you actually read the footnotes?

If you should make this conclusion about the NIV, you should make the same conclusion about the KJV. THe KJV Reads:

And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

In some of the KJV bibles, you will notice that the brother of is enclosed within brackets. This is to show you that this part is not found in the original text. It is simply added for clarity. The NIV chooses to leave the word in its original state and add a footnote to insert their opinion (which in this case is a valid one).

In light of accuracy in translating according to what the Hebrew text actually reads, the NIV has the accurate translation.

The Hebrew word the KJV translates as "the brother of Goliath" is golyath which is "Goliath." There is absolutely no trace of "the brother of" in the Hebrew.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=2Sa&c=21&v=19&t=KJV#conc/19

but man should live on every word so in another part of the Bible to clear things up KJB put the truth in the scriptures not in a foot noot

1ch 20:5And there was war again with the Philistines; and ELHANAN the son of Jair slew Lahmi the brother of Goliath the Gittite, whose spear staff was like a weaver's beam.

and you fing fault in this ????

Thaddaeus · Mar 16, 2009

Rosinsky said:

There is absolutely no error on either one of these translations. You choosing the KJV over the NIV here is simply a matter of choice and not one of accuracy. I really failed to see the point in posting this verse.

you are either mislead here or mistaken either way back to my orginal thought if you believe both translation are the same and there was nothing wrong with the KJB which is the bible we had long before the NIV came along and God said if ye seek wisdom ask me then why not ask God if you don't understand His word then to try and change His word

Jas 1:5If any of you lack WISDOM, let him ASK of GOD, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

so let's add james 1:5b and if that don't work then just change it to where you can understand it . yeah ago ahead listen to man over God !!

Rosinsky · Mar 16, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

In this case, the truth is "the brother" is not in the text. The NIV respects that truth. However, to help readers, they add a footnote to hint the readers of what they think.

Thaddaeus said:

I personally have no problem with the KJV even though I was surprised to find this addition in the KJV to be odd since the KJV is a formal equivalence (word for word) translation.

However, if you were reading the Hebrew bible, it would have said exactly what the NIV says. In this particular case, the NIV translates the text exactly as the original has it.

Rosinsky · Mar 16, 2009

Thaddaeus said:

Rosinsky said:

Mislead?

John 4:29 - Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ? (KJV)

John 4:29 - "Come, see a man (A)who told me all the things that I have done; (B)this is not the Christ, is it?" (NASB)

Perhaps you can show me where I am have been misled? Before you do that, I would like you to tell me why exactly do you prefer the KJV over the NASB here. Is it because of accurate translation in relation to the Greek or is it because you just prefer the KJV?

Granted, I prefer the wording of the question from the KJV. But that in and of itself, does not mean any other version that say something different is "the word of man" and that the KJV is the "word of God." An accurate translation is one that stay close to what the original text says.

easygoing · Mar 16, 2009

bella, hey this worked for me and did help me out a bit with some of the interpretations. Use both at the same time, yes it will take longer to read through a passage but if you come away with a better understanding then it was worth it. I did this for a long time until the language barrier that is at first diffucult to get through, became more clear for me. Just a way i did it and still do at times. I actually use 3 different bibles so like was said before above, look at them each and together as one and the word can be made much more easier to read and understand.

Rosinsky · Mar 17, 2009

bellapazzesco said:

Bella,

What do you mean by 30 books left out in the NIV?

Slepsog4 · Mar 17, 2009

I am not sure where the number came from, but it is highly suspect to suggest that there is the equivalent of 30 books missing.

Question: Missing as compared to what?

ineedahusbandnow134 · Mar 17, 2009

you can reach me at [email protected] so that i can tell you what they lord has done for me

ineedahusbandnow134 · Mar 17, 2009

you can reach me at [email protected] so that i can tell you what they lord has done for me

ineedahusbandnow134 · Mar 17, 2009

you will have a good man.............i can link you up to a man that is good and caring and also God fearing...........his name is david and his email adress is [email protected]

MahogonySnail · Mar 17, 2009

I read somewhere that the NASB is the most accurate literal English translation, even more accurate than the KJV. Unfortunately the most literal translation don't necessarily give us the best bible, because words and the English language change their meaning over time in the way we use them and what they mean. It's a common misunderstanding that "most accurate" equals "best".

MahogonySnail · Mar 17, 2009

By the way, not to sway the KJV argument, but anytime God has spoken to me, He often uses the KJV.

King James vs. NIV... confusion

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