KJV translators weren't KJV only!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#21
Nobody has argued, and fought, and debated, and quarreled, and misrepresented, and misinterpreted, and was at odds with each other over a book more than the Bible.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#23
because KJV only seem to be americans which is ironic when you think about it, they should be rooting for their own version like maybe The Message Only Bibles, or POTUSV rather than a British english translation.

Nobody in England even calls it the KJV, they call it the AV (authorised version)
That's a bit of an odd claim , the thread title, don't you think?

Those charged with creating a King's English version of the Bible would of course be referring to different works when creating the first 1611 edition of a Bible authorized by King James.
They couldn't be KJV only when a KJV didn't yet exist.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#24
Can God's word be in error? When God speaks, does He ever speak in error?
It is a deadly error to say that men are speaking only God's word.

God's word was given to the understanding that men had of the meaning of words over 6,000 years ago. The KJV was translated by men influenced, not by God, but by the accepted interpretations of scripture of that time, including that it was OK to be against Jews. If you accept every interpretation of the original Hebrew into the 1600's idea of English, you are saying you believe in men, not in God. That is wrong.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,658
3,540
113
#25
It is a deadly error to say that men are speaking only God's word.

God's word was given to the understanding that men had of the meaning of words over 6,000 years ago. The KJV was translated by men influenced, not by God, but by the accepted interpretations of scripture of that time, including that it was OK to be against Jews. If you accept every interpretation of the original Hebrew into the 1600's idea of English, you are saying you believe in men, not in God. That is wrong.
Not if you believe in an almighty God who uses flawed men for His purposes.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#26
It is my contention that the kjv is inspired and inerrant as concerning doctrine;

While in certain cases, as with certain numbers, or other minor details, that have been postulated within the text, there may indeed be error;

However there is no error in the kjv that would carry over into changing doctrine so that we would be finding unsound doctrine in the context of the kjv.

Therefore the unadulterated message of salvation is completely preserved in what we know as the authorized version.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,177
113
#27
That's a bit of an odd claim , the thread title, don't you think?

Those charged with creating a King's English version of the Bible would of course be referring to different works when creating the first 1611 edition of a Bible authorized by King James.
They couldn't be KJV only when a KJV didn't yet exist.
yea thats why I pointed that out

its only now that we have tonnes of other versions to choose from that KJV only comes about
However they cant say its the Authorised Version in the US so they want it to be KJV only

as it was the Church of England official version appointed to be read in all churches. The designated Head of the Church of England is the current reigning monarch.

Some people seem to not understand this. Back in the day, every single Church in England were all state owned as it were after they had kicked out the Roman Catholics and the Pope.

Before that the only Bible they had was in Latin..the Vulgate.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#28
Example, Luke 10:1. Did the Lord appoint seventy or seventy-two? Either one is false and the other is true, or neither is true. They cannot both be true. Which is it?

KJV After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

ESV After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go.
Firstly, this is not a primary matter of the Christian faith. It doesn't affect my walk with God at all.

Secondly, comparing one English translation to another English translation does not tell you which is correct; it only tells you that there is a difference. Those with an understanding of the textual issues behind the different English translations aren't overly concerned about this.

Thirdly, I have to wonder exactly who is behind this attempt to divide Christians from each other.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#29
It is my contention that the kjv is inspired and inerrant as concerning doctrine;

While in certain cases, as with certain numbers, or other minor details, that have been postulated within the text, there may indeed be error;

However there is no error in the kjv that would carry over into changing doctrine so that we would be finding unsound doctrine in the context of the kjv.

Therefore the unadulterated message of salvation is completely preserved in what we know as the authorized version.
That argument could be made of many English translations, meaning your conclusion, while not inconsistent with your premises, is not actually unique to the KJV. In other words, you haven't presented a valid case for the KJV as against any other translation.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#30
The only true word of God is in the autographs; that's my belief. Every copy and copies of copies have blemishes. It can't be avoided. Does that make it not the word of God? I don't believe so.

If an ancient manuscript was found and was titled The Gospel According to Matthew, and I began reading and it turned out to a work of Plato, then yeah, I'd say this "gospel" isn't the word of God. This is essentially what the KJV translators were saying: that is, though the translations aren't perfect they're still God's word.

By looking for one authoritative, perfect "word of God" you're waging a hopeless battle. The only truly perfect word of God are the autographs; but they're gone and won't be coming back—in this life anyway.
You might find the works of Bart D. Ehrman helpful.

In particular the titles, Misquoting Jesus and Jesus Apocalyptic Prophet Of The New Millennium.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#31
God cannot preserve His words perfectly through copies? You do know that the “originals” contain copies...

Is God going to hold us accountable to a flawed word?
Speculative arguments hold absolutely no evidentiary value.
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#32
Firstly, this is not a primary matter of the Christian faith. It doesn't affect my walk with God at all.

Secondly, comparing one English translation to another English translation does not tell you which is correct; it only tells you that there is a difference. Those with an understanding of the textual issues behind the different English translations aren't overly concerned about this.

Thirdly, I have to wonder exactly who is behind this attempt to divide Christians from each other.
Do we really have to wonder?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#33
Not if you believe in an almighty God who uses flawed men for His purposes.
You don't believe this. If you did, you wouldn't have an issue with modern translations.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#34
You might find the works of Bart D. Ehrman helpful.

In particular the titles, Misquoting Jesus and Jesus Apocalyptic Prophet Of The New Millennium.
I'm curious as to why you would direct anyone to an apostate whose work drives people away from Christ. :unsure:
 

Icedaisey

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2021
1,398
475
83
#35
yea thats why I pointed that out

its only now that we have tonnes of other versions to choose from that KJV only comes about
However they cant say its the Authorised Version in the US so they want it to be KJV only

as it was the Church of England official version appointed to be read in all churches. The designated Head of the Church of England is the current reigning monarch.

Some people seem to not understand this. Back in the day, every single Church in England were all state owned as it were after they had kicked out the Roman Catholics and the Pope.

Before that the only Bible they had was in Latin..the Vulgate.
I didn't see where you pointed out my observations prior to my quoted post.


I'm curious as to why you would direct anyone to an apostate whose work drives people away from Christ. :unsure:
I don't know that his work drives people from the faith. Ehrman was a Christian, now turned to Agnostic.

He's a scholar and professor of NT studies and invests in the field of textual criticism.

Teaching the history of how the canon came to exist shouldn't turn people from wanting to learn about Christ.

And we know no one can take us from Christ.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,424
113
#36
Not if you believe in an almighty God who uses flawed men for His purposes.
Are you saying these men stopped being flawed as they translated? Do you think the word Passover can be accurately translated as Easter? That God does not pass over when blood is given on the altar?

When all does it happen that imperfect man can be trusted to be perfect? I think that is called barking up the wrong tree.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#37
Are you saying these men stopped being flawed as they translated? Do you think the word Passover can be accurately translated as Easter? That God does not pass over when blood is given on the altar?

When all does it happen that imperfect man can be trusted to be perfect? I think that is called barking up the wrong tree.
everything is perfect in its imperfections.With that being said,,,,It is written we are made perfect in weakness.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,721
13,394
113
#38
everything is perfect in its imperfections.With that being said,,,,It is written we are made perfect in weakness.
Um, no. It is written, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” (2 Corinthians 12:9)
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#39
Um, no. It is written, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” (2 Corinthians 12:9)
2Co 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.,,,,So your saying that he's saying?.,,,that without our weakness his strength would not be perfect?,,Rather then that god refines us until we are made perfect?
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
#40
Um, no. It is written, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” (2 Corinthians 12:9)
we are greater then the bible.We are the living word.