Leadership or Manipulation?

[Stephen63]

Everything you quoted said to expose "deeds." (works) To whom? I would say to the one doing them. Such as explaining to Catholics why some of their rituals are bogus.

But you have substituted the word, "people" for the word that was consistently used, "deeds" (works). So, this would not be helping worshipers see that acts they are performing are wrong, but instead, it is going after specific people, trying to discredit them because they also thought the things they are doing and teaching are correct.

So, you're saying expose the deeds of the televangelists, but don't name them?

How can we be the watchman on the wall to warn the people of a coming enemy, & not name who they are?

Jesus exposed the scribes & pharisees publicly for who they were.

When he drove out the sellers from the temple, I think He showed the people they shouldn't buy from them.

2Tim 4:14Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.15Be on guard against him yourself, for he vigorously opposed our teaching.

Paul's usual style was telling the people who to trust & who not to.

 

[Stephen63]

It is a manipulative trick to say people are slandering and insulting others, and how sinful
this behaviour is, aiming this invictive at innocents who are just expressing their faith,
then saying they are evil worse than the most heinous sin possible, which is a 100%
a slander and a curse all wrapped up in one post.

It is agression claiming a defense against someone who does not see one as an enemy,
making them a sinful enemy with a false accusations and then condemning them to judgement
and damnation. And to top it off declare you refuse to talk with people such as these because
they are not worthy of being regarded as in the body of Christ, and contaminate or what is the
word, defile, with their postings.

The venom such postings have buried within them, if taken seriously is probably the worst
I have come across. If this was someone of real standing or spiritual insight I might take it
to heart, but this is so corrosive, it comes from someone who seriously wants attention,
and feels justified to condemn innocents to hell.

I pray for people like this, and wonder at how such a tactic sees the light of day if
love truly dwelt in their hearts. What is so odd is the slander and insults are never specified,
so they cannot be put right, but then again if they never existed, that would be impossible

It is a sin to bear false witness against anyone, but this passes these people by, as sin is
not a problem, so one more sin to chalk up that Jesus has already forgiven before it was
commited, so why not get a whole bunch in, while you are about it.

I find the worst manipulators are those post mild-mannered sentences & interject statements of heresy within them to fool the people.

Softness & soft-spoken words is one of the biggest manipulative tools there are.

How else did Satan tell Eve "You shall not surely die"?

 

[Willie-T]

So, you're saying expose the deeds of the televangelists, but don't name them?

How can we be the watchman on the wall to warn the people of a coming enemy, & not name who they are?

Jesus exposed the scribes & pharisees publicly for who they were.

When he drove out the sellers from the temple, I think He showed the people they shouldn't buy from them.

2Tim 4:14Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.15Be on guard against him yourself, for he vigorously opposed our teaching.

Paul's usual style was telling the people who to trust & who not to.

No, I am saying to actually talk directly with the individual people you feel are being manipulated. Otherwise you become just another clanging gong, a chicken little, squawking even more noise out into the world. No one who listens to the people you hope to "expose", even hear the words you say because of the sputtering of your negative hollering.

 

[gb9]

I find the worst manipulators are those post mild-mannered sentences & interject statements of heresy within them to fool the people.

Softness & soft-spoken words is one of the biggest manipulative tools there are.

How else did Satan tell Eve "You shall not surely die"?

here is a manipulation story- a pastor told his church that they needed money to renovate or expand ( I don't remember which ) and he told his congregation that it was their duty to provide the funds, and if they came up short, or if someone did not give anything, that their name would be erased from the Book of Life. I know at least one young couple sold their t.v. to give, because they were fearful of hell.

hey Stephen, guess which denomination it was! I could give you a hint, but you already know.

 

[Stephen63]

has someone here really hurt you or something?

you sound so angry whenever I see one of your posts

it's ok. no one here can send you to hell so no need to be that way

That's the problem with chihuahuas..... not smart enough to stay on the porch.

I don't like chew toys, so scat!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

first, let's take a look at what manipulation is. we have probably all heard the expression 'guilt trip', meaning someone makes you feel guilty about yourself whether it be what you say, do or even think.

a manipulator will try to twist things around, turn the tables and is very skillful at dodging straight forward questions

if you are not aware or have not been around a manipulator, you will not know what hit you until you find yourself feeling guilty over something you did not do and apologizing to the manipulator and in so doing, you expose yourself further and make yourself even more vulnerable to their unapologetic scheming to put you right where they want you, which is under their control

we see people attempting this in the Bible forums on a regular basis.

an example is, you ask a question or have a contradictory response to something someone posts. they come back at you with a Bible verse they are using to attempt to become 'god' in your life. the verse will be designed as a rebuff or a rebuke and and they use this verse in a way never intended by God and this is not something anyone has to fear

there are pastors who will give an entire sermon intended to manipulate the congregation; an example is a pastor who wants to build some big extension to the church. I have literally heard a pastor say 'God has put it on my heart that some of you will take out a second mortgage on your house to help out with the project. God bless you. God will greatly reward you. This is not God and people fall for it and want to please God but they are not pleasing God at all; they are allowing themselves to be manipulated by the human being standing in front of them.

thousands of examples of manipulation could be given as it occurs through all spectrums of life. even children manipulate.

but this thread is about the manipulation of Christians by other Christians and how harmful it is to place yourself under false authority. it will wreck havoc in your life.

I don't know. maybe this thread will pass into obscurity like so many do, but I just wanted to bring this into the light and talk about it if anyone wants to

I'm not pointing anyone out. I don't have to do that. Quite a few people on here use this tactic and I don't want to argue with any of you. But if you recognize yourself, perhaps you will stop. You are hurting others and yourself as well.

this is a behavior that is sadly very often tolerated in church and called 'authority' but it is a false authority. we are not to be ruled over by people. every single Christian is supposed to be under authority and that includes the person at the top. no one should be god in your life and the reason Christians should submit to one another and take counsel from each other is to disallow the sad fact of sinful behavior (and the human desire to be god in their own life and the lives of others), to be active as any sort of power play over others

thanks

sadly, Most people do not even realise this is happening, even if they are the ones who are doing the manipulation.. I think it is a learned behavior that has become so common in many traditional churches,, it is lost..

Even sadder, is when someone like this is questioned in love,, all hell breaks lose.. I have seen churches split over this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It was self appointed fruit inspectors and condemnors that influenced my opinion of God and made me feel so unworthy that I knew I was "stoney ground"

Praise God for His faithfulness and love, He did NOT give up on me and He won't give up on anyone truly seeking Him.

I have seen it destroy peoples lives, and many walk away from God.. in fact, I myself walked away for 5 years..

Thats why I am so passionate against this..

 

[Stephen63]

No, I am saying to actually talk directly with the individual people you feel are being manipulated. Otherwise you become just another clanging gong, a chicken little, squawking even more noise out into the world. No one who listens to the people you hope to "expose", even hear the words you say because of the sputtering of your negative hollering.

Thanx for the compliment! Everybody knows those the OSAS's & Hyp******ers go after are the ones that poses the biggest threat to their heresy empire.

Our readers can take a good look at what people like you do & read between the lines to see how your group constantly degrades those that don't agree with you.....

That's what this thread is all about..... manipulation.

Thanx again for the good example.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

oh come on Samuel

do you actually think I started this thread for these forums?

sure I have come across examples of attempts at manipulation through anger, twisting the Bible, even threats

but I did not start it to specifically talk about forum behavior

do you live outside the forums?

you keep going back to the forums. let's move on if there is any hope for this discussion which I am doubtful there is

far more serious than the deflection to money matters, which seem to be occupying the majority of what you consider to be manipulation, is the use of the Bible as the hand of God through a manipulative human

I think you will find alot of people even in here do not go to church.. SO they may not know the way the churches are..

Maybe to them, this is their church?

 

[Sully]

Thanx for the compliment! Everybody knows those the OSAS's & Hyp******ers go after are the ones that poses the biggest threat to their heresy empire.

Our readers can take a good look at what people like you do & read between the lines to see how your group constantly degrades those that don't agree with you.....

That's what this thread is all about..... manipulation.

Thanx again for the good example.

How is using dime store psychology to level faulty accusations about mass groups of believers and posting those accusations on public forums anything other than a form of manipulation? Are you so blind you can't even see your own neon sign hypocrisy? Not to mention that your theology is totally jacked....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think it is part of the reason many use an excuse not to come to God their people (or the people who call themselves children of God) and churches are so manipulative, in how they demand things or else.. But also so hypocritical, in that they do not practice what they preach.

Phariseeism has stained the NT church as much as it stained the OT church..

 

[gb9]

I think it is part of the reason many use an excuse not to come to God their people (or the people who call themselves children of God) and churches are so manipulative, in how they demand things or else.. But also so hypocritical, in that they do not practice what they preach.

Phariseeism has stained the NT church as much as it stained the OT church..

completely correct. when you are actually informed, know and study and research and pray over the Bible, it is hard to listen to the mis-information that comes from many churches.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

some people just like to argue.. it is not worth it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

completely correct. when you are actually informed, know and study and research and pray over the Bible, it is hard to listen to the mis-information that comes from many churches.

it just proves satan is hard at work attacking the church, unlike any other religion.

 

[blue_ladybug]

​I find that when people try to manipulate others, it gives them a sense of power, superiority and being in control..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

​I find that when people try to manipulate others, it gives them a sense of power, superiority and being in control..

some call that the "god" complex.

 

[samuel23]

Hi Seven: I think we are all somewhat confused about what you were referring to(I know I am). Since Satan dominates this world it is full of manipulation, mostly for power so one can acquire what they want. When I did my taxes this year I did something I usually never do, that was I trusted the woman doing the work, and, da dah, she cheated me out of some money. Maybe there is a reason you were not specific, however it would help if you gave a hint of what kind of manipulation you are referring to. You said, using the bible as the hand of God, in a very real sense the bible IS the hand of God, at least most Christians believe it to be so. How could using the bible as the hand of God harm people because the bible is the hand of God? Now manipulating the bible is a grievous sin that is rampant in our time, is that what you were describing.

 

[Stephen63]

How is using dime store psychology to level faulty accusations about mass groups of believers and posting those accusations on public forums anything other than a form of manipulation? Are you so blind you can't even see your own neon sign hypocrisy? Not to mention that your theology is totally jacked....

Yeah, another one of them saying "if you talk about it , you're one of them".

 

[Sully]

Yeah, another one of them saying "if you talk about it , you're one of them".

No, it's what you say not the fact that you're saying it...

 

[Stephen63]

You'

​I find that when people try to manipulate others, it gives them a sense of power, superiority and being in control..

You're absolutely right. That's why I used these psychological terms..... such folks are narcissists. Controlling is what they do.