Legalism's Mistake: Confusing Cause & Effect (Sanctification)
- Thread starter BenFTW
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
And I'll give mine here....
I do not justify sinful behavior, perhaps you have not read enough of my posts? And Satan does not want you to address your sin, Satan wants you to believe you can sin all you want and still be saved. I speak out against sinful behavior, Satan and those that are his try to excuse and justify sinful behavior, even by misrepresenting the words of God and those who speak it in truth and in righteousness.
And I do not point people to the law for salvation as you suggest, but I do point to the gospel message of Jesus Christ and being set free from sin and walking in the obedience of the faith= being a faithful servant. And by the way people do not renew their own minds, it is the God's Spirit that gives a person a new heart and mind so that they can think, talk and walk in righteousness as Christ who now dwells in them is righteous. It is by the power of God working in them that they can stop sinning and be freed from the bondage of sin. And by Christ dwelling them they walk in righteousness and do righteous works and bear good fruit.
But this you try misrepresent as being "self righteous" and "self works" showing to me how you do not truly understand who is really doing the righteous works in those who have put on Jesus Christ.
I do not justify sinful behavior, perhaps you have not read enough of my posts? And Satan does not want you to address your sin, Satan wants you to believe you can sin all you want and still be saved. I speak out against sinful behavior, Satan and those that are his try to excuse and justify sinful behavior, even by misrepresenting the words of God and those who speak it in truth and in righteousness.
And I do not point people to the law for salvation as you suggest, but I do point to the gospel message of Jesus Christ and being set free from sin and walking in the obedience of the faith= being a faithful servant. And by the way people do not renew their own minds, it is the God's Spirit that gives a person a new heart and mind so that they can think, talk and walk in righteousness as Christ who now dwells in them is righteous. It is by the power of God working in them that they can stop sinning and be freed from the bondage of sin. And by Christ dwelling them they walk in righteousness and do righteous works and bear good fruit.
But this you try misrepresent as being "self righteous" and "self works" showing to me how you do not truly understand who is really doing the righteous works in those who have put on Jesus Christ.
E
I didn't name names, but my rebuke seems to have struck a nerve with you so what does that say? 
rebuke? was that the momentary gust of air I felt go past me?
You can't rebuke those who are secure in Christ, Only God can. And he says they are adopted as his children, and the father has promised he will never lose any of them
So your rebuke is lacking any power. no matter how forceful you try to rebuke, or how powerful your presentation, or how loud you screem It will always be a gust of air which one does not know where it even comes from. (meaningless)
1 John 1:9
When we read the Bible, we need to look at the context in which each book was written. If we don't do that, it's easy to misinterpret what a particular book or chapter is really saying. When that happens, we can easily come to wrong conclusions, which can then cause a lot of misunderstanding about the work of Christ on our behalf.
One example of this is that many people believe that although their sins have been forgiven prior to salvation, after salvation it is up to them to obtain forgiveness through their confession. Others believe that all their sins have been forgiven at the cross, however, they cannot experience forgiveness unless they confess each time they sin. The verse both parties use to defend their belief is I John 1:9. Let's read the first chapter of 1 John, and keep in mind two important questions: "Who was John's audience?" and 'What was he trying to accomplish in this letter?"
The audience was a confused church in Asia.
The pastor there asked John to write a letter to help clear up some major doctrinal heresy called "Gnosticism." Gnosticism comes from the Greek word " gnosis", which means knowledge.
The Gnostics were a group of people who believed they possessed superior spiritual knowledge. They believed that all flesh is evil and that only spirit is good. Because they believed that, they didn't believe that Jesus really came in the flesh - they believed He was an illusion.
They also believed that because sin had to do with our flesh, there really wasn't sin - sin was also just an Illusion. (That's similar to people today who believe sickness is an illusion.) The church in Ephesus was filled with people who not only didn't believe Christ came in the flesh, they didn't believe sin was real.
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.
"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ.
"This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost).
Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
(edit out link)
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins.
We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
When we read the Bible, we need to look at the context in which each book was written. If we don't do that, it's easy to misinterpret what a particular book or chapter is really saying. When that happens, we can easily come to wrong conclusions, which can then cause a lot of misunderstanding about the work of Christ on our behalf.
One example of this is that many people believe that although their sins have been forgiven prior to salvation, after salvation it is up to them to obtain forgiveness through their confession. Others believe that all their sins have been forgiven at the cross, however, they cannot experience forgiveness unless they confess each time they sin. The verse both parties use to defend their belief is I John 1:9. Let's read the first chapter of 1 John, and keep in mind two important questions: "Who was John's audience?" and 'What was he trying to accomplish in this letter?"
The audience was a confused church in Asia.
The pastor there asked John to write a letter to help clear up some major doctrinal heresy called "Gnosticism." Gnosticism comes from the Greek word " gnosis", which means knowledge.
The Gnostics were a group of people who believed they possessed superior spiritual knowledge. They believed that all flesh is evil and that only spirit is good. Because they believed that, they didn't believe that Jesus really came in the flesh - they believed He was an illusion.
They also believed that because sin had to do with our flesh, there really wasn't sin - sin was also just an Illusion. (That's similar to people today who believe sickness is an illusion.) The church in Ephesus was filled with people who not only didn't believe Christ came in the flesh, they didn't believe sin was real.
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life"
(I John 1:1).
In other words, John is establishing that he was an eyewitness to the fact that Jesus truly did come in the flesh. He did this to convince the Gnostics that Jesus was not an illusion.
"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son, Jesus Christ" (verse 3).
This verse says two things. First, John repeats the fact that he, the rest of the apostles and other people saw Christ in the flesh. He wanted the Gnostics to realize that there were many people who could testify to the reality of Christ. Second, he is saying that there are some people in the audience who were not in the fellowship with Christ.
"This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all" (verse 5).
John's message in this verse is clear: God is light and in Him there is no darkness. We are either in the light (saved) or in darkness (lost).
Scriptures are full of this comparison between light (saved) vs. darkness (lost).
(edit out link)
"If we claim to have fellowship with Him yet walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth." (verse 6).
In other words, if someone says he has fellowship with Christ, but is walking in darkness (lost), he is lying and not practicing the truth. The Gnostics claimed to be in fellowship with Christ (saved), and yet were actually living a lie and therefore weren't practicing the truth.
"If we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, His Son, purifies us from all sin" (verse 7).
In other words, if we walk in the light (are saved) we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. To put it another way, once we are saved, we are permanently in the fellowship because the blood of Jesus continually cleanses us from all sin. Therefore, we aren't forgiven because we confess our sins.
We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross.
