Legalism's Mistake: Confusing Cause & Effect (Sanctification)
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It says work out the salvation YOU HAVE ALREADY RECIEVED with fear that you will not be a light.
Paul did not fear God, He feared that an action he did would cause his word to be useless..
whats amazing is seeing people claim they can do more than what the cross of Christ did, and that the Cross of Christ is not adequate. The people will puff themselves up as something worthy of anything..
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I never made this claim, you pull this out of the air to try and down play my responses to your lack of wisdom and blindness... you want salvation in your pocket so you claim that christ's work gives you that.... without conditions. If your ideology was correct the whole world would be saved...wake up.
Mathew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for broad is the way which leadeth unto distruction, and many there be which go thereat.
Mathew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which laedeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mathew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Sounds to me like your idea of gloriously saved doesnt fit with the scriptures
Mathew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these saying of mine, and DOETH them, i will liken unto him a wise man, which built his house on a rock.
Mathew 7: and every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM NOT, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which bulit his house upon the sand
I dont puff myself up because this is not my scripture...it is God's sent down and delivered by Christ and the apostles..so if your offended at me your actually offended at the apostles first then Christ and last God.
Mathew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for broad is the way which leadeth unto distruction, and many there be which go thereat.
Mathew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which laedeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mathew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Sounds to me like your idea of gloriously saved doesnt fit with the scriptures
Mathew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these saying of mine, and DOETH them, i will liken unto him a wise man, which built his house on a rock.
Mathew 7: and every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM NOT, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which bulit his house upon the sand
I dont puff myself up because this is not my scripture...it is God's sent down and delivered by Christ and the apostles..so if your offended at me your actually offended at the apostles first then Christ and last God.
E
No The whole world would not be saved, People like you prove it.
If true FAITH in the work of Christ is required, and so few people have it, but actually more have it in their on deeds (whatever deeds they may be) then how could the whole world be saved.
Your ignorance as to what people believes is truly amazing. but you can still come around there is always hope.
You do puff yourself up if those things are required to eternal life. Because you EARNED IT.
I do those things because my foundation is on the true rock (christ) Not the other way around.
Your foundation is your works (self) Not Christ.
If true FAITH in the work of Christ is required, and so few people have it, but actually more have it in their on deeds (whatever deeds they may be) then how could the whole world be saved.
Your ignorance as to what people believes is truly amazing. but you can still come around there is always hope.
You do puff yourself up if those things are required to eternal life. Because you EARNED IT.
I do those things because my foundation is on the true rock (christ) Not the other way around.
Your foundation is your works (self) Not Christ.
I asked because unless that OP (original post) is read a person will interpret 1st John 1:9 to be talking about sanctification and not understand how we can sin in the light and be forgiven but that scripture is talking about those that are not saved.
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1st John 1:9
king James version(KJV)
9.)If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
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1st John 1:9
king James version(KJV)
9.)If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
Well even if I had read it, I would still consider the verse you mentioned to be talking about our walk with Christ, i.e., sanctification. John was communicating to believers when he wrote 'we'; he didn't say 'they', meaning unbelievers.
It's really not a question of being forgiven when we sin because all sin has been forgiven. Also, we cannot sin in the light because we cannot sin when we are walking in the spirit. If we sin, we are not walking in the spirit, but darkness. Sanctification requires acknowledging that our mind is in darkness and turning from the darkness back to the light. I don't believe we have to ask for forgiveness because the light is forgiveness. Instead I think we need to thank GOD for his abiding mercy.
It's really not a question of being forgiven when we sin because all sin has been forgiven. Also, we cannot sin in the light because we cannot sin when we are walking in the spirit. If we sin, we are not walking in the spirit, but darkness. Sanctification requires acknowledging that our mind is in darkness and turning from the darkness back to the light. I don't believe we have to ask for forgiveness because the light is forgiveness. Instead I think we need to thank GOD for his abiding mercy.
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All the points you bring up, including the "we" statement of John is addressed in the article I shared, and the subsequent posts: http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...on-1-john-1-9-sin-confession.html#post2240057
If you don't want to give it the time of day, its sort of hard to condense. The basis of the argument is historical and scriptural evidence, that he was speaking to a group known as the Gnostics. He was addressing Gnosticism that held belief that were contrary to our faith. They didn't believe they had sin, for example, therefore John tells them that they would be calling God a liar. They didn't believe Jesus actually came in the flesh because flesh was inherently sinful, but John says to them that they saw, and touched him. A lot of the things said in 1 John looks like it is addressing each belief of Gnosticism if you read a side by side comparison of their beliefs while reading.
Your "we" argument is addressed in a post of mine in the thread I linked but here is a copy/paste of what I shared...
---This is a rhetorical narrative voice which is used in nonfiction. It has the effect of creating a sense of level ground between the narrator and audience by creating an inclusive feeling. There is a separation between us and the subject matter, but we (narrator and audience) are both on the same side of it, approaching it together as equals.
They go on to define it in the form of cooking books. We then put the chicken in the oven... it could be then said of sin confession, that we then confess our sin therefore showing our need for the Savior Jesus Christ. So, John was not so much including himself in the process now, so much as showing the method by which we receive forgiveness. Acknowledge we are sinners in need of a Savior and then repent. Believe.
Also said: The first person plural we-voice is particularly suitable for presenting in front of an audience.
If you don't want to give it the time of day, its sort of hard to condense. The basis of the argument is historical and scriptural evidence, that he was speaking to a group known as the Gnostics. He was addressing Gnosticism that held belief that were contrary to our faith. They didn't believe they had sin, for example, therefore John tells them that they would be calling God a liar. They didn't believe Jesus actually came in the flesh because flesh was inherently sinful, but John says to them that they saw, and touched him. A lot of the things said in 1 John looks like it is addressing each belief of Gnosticism if you read a side by side comparison of their beliefs while reading.
Your "we" argument is addressed in a post of mine in the thread I linked but here is a copy/paste of what I shared...
---This is a rhetorical narrative voice which is used in nonfiction. It has the effect of creating a sense of level ground between the narrator and audience by creating an inclusive feeling. There is a separation between us and the subject matter, but we (narrator and audience) are both on the same side of it, approaching it together as equals.
They go on to define it in the form of cooking books. We then put the chicken in the oven... it could be then said of sin confession, that we then confess our sin therefore showing our need for the Savior Jesus Christ. So, John was not so much including himself in the process now, so much as showing the method by which we receive forgiveness. Acknowledge we are sinners in need of a Savior and then repent. Believe.
Also said: The first person plural we-voice is particularly suitable for presenting in front of an audience.
Here is what I've seen the false accusers do in order to slap a false label on a true believer in Jesus Christ who speaks out against sinful behavior. (or how they are to spot a "sinless perfectionist", or "works Salvationism", and to spot a "legalist")
1st here is how they spot of one who is a "sinless perfectionist"......
Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
2nd here is how they spot one who preaches "works Salvationism"....
James 2:17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
And thirdly, this is how they spot one who preaches "legalism"...
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
It's a sad time indeed when professing Christians speak out against what the words of God plainly say, just in order to try and justify their own sinful behavior.
1st here is how they spot of one who is a "sinless perfectionist"......
Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
2nd here is how they spot one who preaches "works Salvationism"....
James 2:17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:20
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
And thirdly, this is how they spot one who preaches "legalism"...
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
It's a sad time indeed when professing Christians speak out against what the words of God plainly say, just in order to try and justify their own sinful behavior.
It's impossible to sin while walking in the light, i.e. the spirit. That's the whole point; the light keeps us from sinning. When we sin we're kidding ourselves if we think we're walking in the light. That's the whole point of John's writing. The is no occasion to sin when we walk in the light because we are doing GOD's will.
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1 John 2:10
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While no one will disagree with you here, The issue many have is saying that while we are commiting a sin, we are not Gods children (although disobedient children)
If we were all perfect and never sinned, why would God have to chasten us, and if we have not been chastened by God we are not his true children as scripture clearly states. Then how can Gods true children ever be perfect?