Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

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cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
8,200
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#1
I will add further Scriptures as the thread progresses. There are some interesting OT verses that hint at the Rapture.

https://barrysetterfield.org/Rapture.html

1 Thess 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come.

2 Thess 1:6-8
since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
and to give YOU who are troubled REST with us WHEN the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
in flaming fire taking vengeance (which is the purpose of the GT......a purpose not accorded to the Bride) on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Ruby123

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2019
6,419
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#2
There is an interesting documentary/video shown on Vimeo called Before the Wrath. You have to pay to watch it or download it. It likens the rapture to a Jewish Wedding, the church being the Bride of Christ and Jesus being the groom. I thought it was quite interesting and it explains the rapture more clearly.
 
Oct 19, 2020
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#3
1 Thess 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come.
Just putting this out here, but the prior Verse, 1:9, clears 1:10 up.

But I have a couple points to add.

[and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead]
We are doing this currently and will be until we are indeed caught up.


Something bothers me about the point you're making concerning the Rapture here. Is your use of this portion from Verse 1:10
[even Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come]
You believe this [delivers us ] is specifically speaking "Rapture" here, and not the fact we escaped God's Ultimate Wrath of spending all eternity in the [Lake of Fire] by His Accomplishment upon the Cross?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
6,583
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#4
^ Right.

Paul, in the Thessalonians epistles, is mostly covering the Subject of an "eschatological salvation" [/deliverance].

"...the One delivering us out-from the wrath coming." (i.e. the wrath coming on this earth, during a specific, limited, future time-period... commonly called the 7-yr Trib / 70th Week of Daniel).
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#5
Just putting this out here, but the prior Verse, 1:9, clears 1:10 up.

But I have a couple points to add.

[and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead]
We are doing this currently and will be until we are indeed caught up.


Something bothers me about the point you're making concerning the Rapture here. Is your use of this portion from Verse 1:10
[even Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come]
You believe this [delivers us ] is specifically speaking "Rapture" here, and not the fact we escaped God's Ultimate Wrath of spending all eternity in the [Lake of Fire] by His Accomplishment upon the Cross?
Revelation calls those judgments in the book the wrath of God repeatedly so therefore the most logical conclusion is that He delivers us from those also. The Day of the Lord that mentions the judgments upon people even in this life that will be visited upon the earth at a future end time scenario called the wrath of God would be included. Not ONLY the Lake of Fire. The wrath to come would most likely be talking about all of the many scriptures that prophesy an outpouring of the wrath of God revealed from heaven upon men for their wickedness even before the Lake of Fire final disposition.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
4,996
3,113
113
#6
Just putting this out here, but the prior Verse, 1:9, clears 1:10 up.

But I have a couple points to add.

[and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead]
We are doing this currently and will be until we are indeed caught up.


Something bothers me about the point you're making concerning the Rapture here. Is your use of this portion from Verse 1:10
[even Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come]
You believe this [delivers us ] is specifically speaking "Rapture" here, and not the fact we escaped God's Ultimate Wrath of spending all eternity in the [Lake of Fire] by His Accomplishment upon the Cross?
Yes
The wrath we are not appointed to is eternal damnation.
Tribulation is the persecution of the enemy not the wrath of God which is poured out on the wicked.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#7
Yes
The wrath we are not appointed to is eternal damnation.
Tribulation is the persecution of the enemy not the wrath of God which is poured out on the wicked.

There is a prophecy of the Great Tribulation which is the same as the Day of His Wrath (Zech 1) and this is not the same as tribulation that all christians must be prepared to go through to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

The Great Tribulation of Revelation is repeatedly called the wrath of God in Revelation.


Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Rev 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Zeph 1: 14The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

15That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
18Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.

Rev 6:16-17
16And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 11:18
18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev 14:10
10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 14:19
19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Rev 15:1 1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

7And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Rev 16 19And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Therefore many Post Tribulation Rapture proponents suggest that there will be some kind of supernatural protection upon saints during this time so that it cannot be said that they perish under the wrath of God. They use the story of the plagues of Egypt as support and also this passage about the servants of the Lord being sealed in Revelation.

And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

But then only 144,000 of the tribes of Israel are sealed and so the question becomes are they really only Jews or is it symbolic representation of all the redeemed? And who's guess is correct?

Maybe saints are being divinely protected from wrath like the hail stones but not being protected from persecution or martyrdom. I don't know, it gets confusing as to how they die by the multitudes from the Antichirst but no one dies from the wrath of the Lamb.

At least most Post Tribulation Rapture proponents do not believe that the saints receive the wrath judgments along with the wicked. How that plays out is not very clear.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
9,515
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#8
Expect the same pattern.

1. Enoch raptured (Church raptured)
THEN

2. Gods wrath poured out on the wicked ungodly while preserving His through the tribulation in Noah’s flood. (Converted sinners protected from God’s wrath in great tribulation, but NOT wicked man’s)
THEN

3. Destruction of ungodly wicked by the flood, Noah and family preserved to start new world. ( Wrath, tribulation, and judgement on present wicked ungodly. Saints reign in World with Jesus as King.


There’s your pattern to look for.
 
Oct 19, 2020
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#9
Revelation calls those judgments in the book the wrath of God repeatedly so therefore the most logical conclusion is that He delivers us from those also. The Day of the Lord that mentions the judgments upon people even in this life that will be visited upon the earth at a future end time scenario called the wrath of God would be included. Not ONLY the Lake of Fire. The wrath to come would most likely be talking about all of the many scriptures that prophesy an outpouring of the wrath of God revealed from heaven upon men for their wickedness even before the Lake of Fire final disposition.

No argument here, but Christ saved us from the ultimate Wrath of being separated from God eternally.
 
Oct 19, 2020
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160
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#11
^ Right.

Paul, in the Thessalonians epistles, is mostly covering the Subject of an "eschatological salvation" [/deliverance].

"...the One delivering us out-from the wrath coming." (i.e. the wrath coming on this earth, during a specific, limited, future time-period... commonly called the 7-yr Trib / 70th Week of Daniel).

If you believe going through seven years of Tribulation, how we understand it will be like from our WORD of God we read, will be worse than the wrath of Eternal Damnation away from God, I pray for you!
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#12
I have a pan tribulation pre millennial view of the rapture.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
10,615
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#13
Just putting this out here, but the prior Verse, 1:9, clears 1:10 up.

But I have a couple points to add.

[and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead]
We are doing this currently and will be until we are indeed caught up.


Something bothers me about the point you're making concerning the Rapture here. Is your use of this portion from Verse 1:10
[even Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come]
You believe this [delivers us ] is specifically speaking "Rapture" here, and not the fact we escaped God's Ultimate Wrath of spending all eternity in the [Lake of Fire] by His Accomplishment upon the Cross?
Hello KingdomBrat!

This is not an issue. When we believed we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. Therefore, we are not appointed to suffer any of God's wrath, whether the wrath that is coming upon the earth, nor at the great white throne judgment. Why would believers be exposed to one but not the other?

Since God's wrath will be coming upon the whole inhabited world, there would be no place that the church could escape to, not to mention the fact that the church is not even mentioned during the narrative of God's wrath.

The scriptures that CV5 quoted above in regards to Jesus rescuing believers from the wrath to come, is indeed referring to the coming wrath upon this earth in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements.
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
5,770
3,015
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#14
There is an interesting documentary/video shown on Vimeo called Before the Wrath. You have to pay to watch it or download it. It likens the rapture to a Jewish Wedding, the church being the Bride of Christ and Jesus being the groom. I thought it was quite interesting and it explains the rapture more clearly.
Perry Stone as well has done a wonderful teaching on the parallels between the wedding rituals and the coming fulfillment.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
10,615
2,100
113
#15
I will add further Scriptures as the thread progresses. There are some interesting OT verses that hint at the Rapture.

https://barrysetterfield.org/Rapture.html

1 Thess 1:10
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us FROM the wrath to come.

2 Thess 1:6-8
since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
and to give YOU who are troubled REST with us WHEN the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
in flaming fire taking vengeance (which is the purpose of the GT......a purpose not accorded to the Bride) on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I don't mean to derail your thread, but I feel that it is relevant to the topic.

In light of the pre, mid and post gathering of the church interpretations, I have a scripture that was revealed to me just a few nights ago while I was reading, which I had never even considered before as a proof of the church being gathered prior to the time of God's wrath which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgment, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses bring.

============================================================

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.

============================================================

The punishment for adding to the prophecies in book of Revelation is that, the person who does this will go through those very plagues, meaning that they would have to be on the earth to experience them when they take place. As previously stated, the plagues described in the book of Revelation is none other than the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the plagues that the two witnesses will bring.

All of that said, if being present on the earth to experience the plagues of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments is the punishment for those who add to the prophesies in the book of Revelation, then how is it that we have people believing and teaching that the true church is going to be on the earth to experience those plagues?

And just a note for those who would claim that the church will be protected during that time: first, the church is nowhere mentioned during the narrative of God's wrath. And second, there is no scripture stated that they are protected. The only groups who are protected is the woman/Israel of chapter 12 where God cares for her during the last 3 1/2 years out in the wilderness. And the 144,000 who are said to be protected from the stings of the demon locusts of the 5th trumpet. Other than that, there is nothing mentioned of anyone being protected and rightly so, because the purpose of those plagues of wrath are to punish the inhabitants of the earth.

The mid tribulation believers would have the church going through a portion of those plagues. And the post believers would have us going through all of the plagues mentioned in the book. For Jesus doesn't return to the earth to end the age until after the 7th bowl has been poured out.

Just food for thought ......
 
Oct 19, 2020
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#16
Hello KingdomBrat!

This is not an issue. When we believed we were credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. Therefore, we are not appointed to suffer any of God's wrath, whether the wrath that is coming upon the earth, nor at the great white throne judgment. Why would believers be exposed to one but not the other?

Since God's wrath will be coming upon the whole inhabited world, there would be no place that the church could escape to, not to mention the fact that the church is not even mentioned during the narrative of God's wrath.

The scriptures that CV5 quoted above in regards to Jesus rescuing believers from the wrath to come, is indeed referring to the coming wrath upon this earth in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements.

It seems [Odd] that if you view during the latter portion of the Great Tribulation, when Satan is in full power, and the world is in celebration thinking he is God, that some call this the Wrath of God.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
#17
It seems [Odd] that if you view during the latter portion of the Great Tribulation, when Satan is in full power, and the world is in celebration thinking he is God, that some call this the Wrath of God.
Absolutely the short reign of the Antichrist is a judgment upon those that believe a lie an love not the truth.

He that withholds will withhold until he be taken out of the way and that wicked will be revealed, is a judgment upon those who endure his regime.

In my opinion the first horse that is loosed represents the revelation of the Antichrist who goes forth accumulating world power and in his wake are the other three horses all 4 of these are judgment and the wrath of God.

And since there are 5 to 9 specific verses calling these judgments in the tribulation that wrath of God we don't need to call it something else.
 
Oct 19, 2020
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#18
Absolutely the short reign of the Antichrist is a judgment upon those that believe a lie an love not the truth.

He that withholds will withhold until he be taken out of the way and that wicked will be revealed, is a judgment upon those who endure his regime.

In my opinion the first horse that is loosed represents the revelation of the Antichrist who goes forth accumulating world power and in his wake are the other three horses all 4 of these are judgment and the wrath of God.

And since there are 5 to 9 specific verses calling these judgments in the tribulation that wrath of God we don't need to call it something else.
Technically speaking here, Satan is [not] in power till the second half. If this Wrath is during the end of the second half of the Great Tribulation, then Believers in God aren't facing it if they're here in the first half of Tribulation. Interpretation claims we leave [before] wrath. We could very well be Mid Trib Rapture.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
8,200
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#19
Revelation calls those judgments in the book the wrath of God repeatedly so therefore the most logical conclusion is that He delivers us from those also. The Day of the Lord that mentions the judgments upon people even in this life that will be visited upon the earth at a future end time scenario called the wrath of God would be included. Not ONLY the Lake of Fire. The wrath to come would most likely be talking about all of the many scriptures that prophesy an outpouring of the wrath of God revealed from heaven upon men for their wickedness even before the Lake of Fire final disposition.
Rev 6:16
and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

https://barrysetterfield.org/Pre-Tribulation_Rapture.html

"It is that word, “apostosia” which causes some problems. Today in our modern English we use the word “apostacy” to describe a religious departure from the faith. Our word apostacy is a late derivative of that same Greek word, and so it has become fashionable to translate it as “the apostacy” or “the departure from the faith” or “the religious departure.” First of all, there have been many departures from the faith historically. We can see this in any number of sects and cults. Second, the translation which indicates a departure from the faith came about as a result of the Reformation doctrine which saw the Pope as the Antichrist and the Roman Catholic Church as having departed from the true faith. The Reformers and those who produced the King James Version therefore favored “the apostacy” as it hinted at their problems with Rome and the language was now making it a possible translation."

"Interestingly, the 7 English translations before the KJV did not use the word “apostacy” or its equivalent of “falling away.” They simply used the word “Departure”, because that is what the root word actually means in Greek – physically going away. In the Greek language there is a root word from which the noun apostasia is derived and from which the verb aphistemi is also derived. All told this root is used 15 times in the New Testament. In most cases it is the verb which has been used and is almost always translated as “departure,” since it really does mean a physical departure as in Luke 2:37 and 4:13. It is only the noun form which has been translated on two occasions as “falling away” or a religious departure due to the influence of the Reformers. The conclusion is that a strict rather than colloquial translation would read as follows: “Let no one deceive you by any means for that Day (the Tribulation) will not come unless THE DEPARTURE comes first.” In the context of verse 1 of our gathering together to Christ, “The Departure” must be referring to the Rapture, and that must happen before the Tribulation. So, when rightly understood, this passage positively affirms a pre-Trib Rapture."
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
8,200
4,660
113
#20
It seems [Odd] that if you view during the latter portion of the Great Tribulation, when Satan is in full power, and the world is in celebration thinking he is God, that some call this the Wrath of God.
Check an online concordance and find out how many times the term "wrath" is used in the book of Revelation.

If I am not mistaken that term is used 13 times.
One time as wrath of the Lamb.
One time as the wrath of Satan
Eleven times as the wrath of God

"Some" don't call the GT the "wrath of God".......God calls the GT "wrath of God".

IMO, nobody knows the day or the hour because the seminal transaction that initiates the 7 year tribulation period actually occurs in heaven, when the Lamb takes the scroll from the Hand of The Father. And this at the express discretionary time appointed and permitted ONLY by God the Father Himself. Which of course matches a Jewish wedding ceremony perfectly. It is the father of the groom who decides that the house is complete and THEN gives permission for the son to retrieve his dearly beloved betrothed.

It may well be that in Their own divine Sovereign discretion that the Son still...EVEN NOW does not know the day or the hour. Jesus made it perfectly clear that during His earthly sojourn that He Himself did not know the day or the hour. But of course nobody knows for sure.

Matt 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.