Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[FreeGrace2]

No clouds mean clouds and revealed means revealed.

Huh? Where does "no clouds" mean "clouds"?

In your world the ac is actually IN POWER KILLING BELIEVERS AND RECIEVING WORSHIP ( the mark being a form of worship)...THEN REVEALED.

Don't place anything in "my world". Because you have no clue.

Rev 13 is rather clear about the beast killing believers and being worshiped.

The only way that can occur is when he is in power. Or revealed.

( no joke...you have him revealed way into his actual installment in power)

I don't. You're confused. But what's new here?

Silly beyond belief

Yes, your assumptions and presumptions are very much silly beyond belief.

But the worst one is believing in a pre trib rapture when there isn't any verse that describes raptured believers being taken up to heaven, and trying to force a parable to "indicate" that. But only by a very heavy dose of spiritualizing it first.

 

[cv5]

The bible promotes a pretrib rapture.
Authenticated by several in this thread.
Easily defended.

Postrib rapture is impossible as it does not fit.
It fails immediately.
Immediately.
It was started in the early church by a perception of a fallen and scattered jewish nation.
Deception.
They were decieved....and really it APPEARED TRUE.

Again deception.

It is actually postribs that, imo, birthed replacement theology.

Those 2 doctrines are hand in hand.

Deception.

There is no deception in praying and believing as Jesus commanded. Yet postribs ARE NOT expecting and waiting ....or getting ready For the rapture.

The bible ends with the bride and the spirit invoking the rapture.
Act 1 is the very beginnings of the church ...and invokes the rapture as pretrib.
So we see the start and end of the church age with the rapture present. The gt is jacobs trouble.
Israels trouble. The church is gathered...then jacobs trouble.
Postribbers mock and twist that very dynamic. They see it as their duty. " i just don't believe...."

That is last days deception.

I do agree that the denial of the pre-trib rapture tends to blur the distinction between Israel and the Church. But I think more properly that it is the failure to discriminate the distinction between Israel and the Church to start with which creates a situation where people deny the pre-trib rapture.

Taken to the extreme you end up with replacement theology. A devastating heresy.

 

[cv5]

Huh? Where does "no clouds" mean "clouds"?


Don't place anything in "my world". Because you have no clue.

Rev 13 is rather clear about the beast killing believers and being worshiped.

The only way that can occur is when he is in power. Or revealed.


I don't. You're confused. But what's new here?


Yes, your assumptions and presumptions are very much silly beyond belief.

But the worst one is believing in a pre trib rapture when there isn't any verse that describes raptured believers being taken up to heaven, and trying to force a parable to "indicate" that. But only by a very heavy dose of spiritualizing it first.

Riddle me this: demonstrate to us this harpazo that Paul describes anywhere in the book of Revelation from chapter 6 onward. Any terminology must be conclusively describing the Church per se in the same manner as it is in the epistles.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Huh? Where does "no clouds" mean "clouds"?

Don't place anything in "my world". Because you have no clue.

Riddle me this: demonstrate to us this harpazo that Paul describes anywhere in the book of Revelation from chapter 6 onward.

No. Answer my question first. And only then will I "demonstrate" whatever you want. But first explain what you mean by demonstrating "this harpazo".

 

[Absolutely]

Huh? Where does "no clouds" mean "clouds"?


Don't place anything in "my world". Because you have no clue.

Rev 13 is rather clear about the beast killing believers and being worshiped.

The only way that can occur is when he is in power. Or revealed.


I don't. You're confused. But what's new here?


Yes, your assumptions and presumptions are very much silly beyond belief.

But the worst one is believing in a pre trib rapture when there isn't any verse that describes raptured believers being taken up to heaven, and trying to force a parable to "indicate" that. But only by a very heavy dose of spiritualizing it first.

Lol
You walked up to the barn and emptied both barrels and missed from 2 ft away.

How can you mess up such no brainers????

 

[Absolutely]

Quote by absolutely:
"( no joke...you have him revealed way into his actual installment in power)"

Free grace "I don't. You're confused. But what's new here?"

No you are saying exactly that.
EVEN THOUGH It says "Revealed"
You reframe it to "in power for years."
Why?
Because of your faulty theological, poorly thought out BELIEFS.

 

[Absolutely]

Absolutely said:

No clouds mean clouds and revealed means revealed

.

FREEGRACE QUOTE "Huh? Where does "no clouds" mean "clouds"?"

Forgot the Comma after " no"
Clouds =clouds
Reveal =reveal

...not that it matters. You will refute anything said whether correct or not.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Lol
You walked up to the barn and emptied both barrels and missed from 2 ft away.

How can you mess up such no brainers????

Your opinions are yours. What you lack is any evidence that Jesus raptures people and takes them to heaven. NONE of the rapture verses mentions any trip to heaven.

Wouldn't that be the place to say it if it were true? Of course it would.

All you've provided is a highly spiritualized parable. Spiritualizing Scripture is how to make up stuff that can't be proven or refuted.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No you are saying exactly that.
EVEN THOUGH It says "Revealed"
You reframe it to "in power for years."
Why?
Because of your faulty theological, poorly thought out BELIEFS.

What have I "reframed"? The Bible says Jesus will REIGN for 1,000 years. That will certainly be a revelation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

.



Forgot the Comma after " no"
Clouds =clouds
Reveal =reveal

...not that it matters. You will refute anything said whether correct or not.

It is truly amazing how much of your opinions are in error.

You criticize me for YOUR failure to put in a comma. I was commenting DIRECTLY on your post as you typed it.

So, what do you expect, that I read your mind and know what you meant? That would be nice.

btw, regarding what I will refute. False doctrine, every time.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Your opinions are yours. What you lack is any evidence that Jesus raptures people and takes them to heaven. NONE of the rapture verses mentions any trip to heaven.

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." - Phil.3:20

"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." - John 14:1-3

John 14:1-3 is a promise from the Lord. He said that He was going to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for us and that He would come back to get us to take us back to those places that He prepared which are in the Father's house, which would be in heaven.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words." - 1 Thess.4:16

I Thessalonians above, is a detailed account of the promise made in John 14:1-3, which is when the Lord returns to gather His church. First the dead will rise immortal and glorified, then the living will be changed immortal and glorified and caught up in the clouds with those who will have just resurrected. At that point the entire church from beginning to end will be gathered in the air, where the Lord will take the whole group back to the Father's house. Following that will usher in the time period of God's wrath on the earth known as 'The Day of the Lord" and the tribulation period. The church will not be on the earth during that time, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already suffered it on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.

"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

After Paul gets done admonishing the Corinthians regarding some of them not believing in the resurrection, he finishes with the event of the Lord returning for the church to snatch them up into the air and to take them back to the Father's house, which is made clear in the first part of the verse where Paul says "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" which is would be referring to heaven. Believers must be changed immortal and glorified in order to inherit the kingdom of God, because this present body decays and perishes.

So, when you take all of these scriptures into account, you can now say that you have seen scriptures that show that the Lord is coming to take believers back to heaven. Only a stubborn or spiritually blind person would continue to contend against this truth.

 

[Aldg19]

It’s wonderful to know you all I’m leaving to focusing on my life it’s was a wonderful time learning with you all but it’s definitely been a wonderful 3 weeks with you I learned so much but i hope that you understand why I’m leaving it’s best for me to start my music journey with country music and I’m moving to Nashville I have been dreaming about doing country music forever it’s officially real thanks for your love and support I love you so much and I can’t wait to see you and meet you in heaven someday

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
What you lack is any evidence that Jesus raptures people and takes them to heaven. NONE of the rapture verses mentions any trip to heaven.

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." - Phil.3:20

The verse doesn't say anything about transformed believers being taken to heaven.

"My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am." - John 14:1-3[/QUOT]
Jesus hadn't died and been resurrected YET, and was speaking to living humans. After His death He di "go and prepare a room for them". And when all of the people He was talking to died, they DID go to be with Him.

As to "I will come back and take hou to be with me", do you think Jesus meant at a pre trib rapture? If he did, and that STILL hasn't happened yet, where do you think all those He was talking to are right now? Paul said "absent from the body, face to face with the Lord". So I believe that at physical death, the soul of every believer is IN heaven. So those He spoke to ARE in heaven right now.

Given Jesus' account of Lazarus and a rich man, we know that angels carried Lazarus to paradise. So I believe that at death every believer is "escorted" to heaven. That could easily be what Jesus was referring to.

I certainly don't believe that Jesus personally comes to earth every time a believer dies and personally escorts them to heaven.

Also, you must consider Acts 3:21. Most translations have "heaven must receive Him". However here are the others:

New Living Translation
For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.
Amplified Bible
whom heaven must keep until the time for the [complete] restoration of all things about which God promised through the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time.
Contemporary English Version
But Jesus must stay in heaven until God makes all things new, just as his holy prophets promised long ago.
Good News Translation
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for all things to be made new, as God announced through his holy prophets of long ago.
International Standard Version
He must remain in heaven until the time of universal restitution, which God announced long ago through the voice of his holy prophets.

So, what does the actual Greek word mean?

According to my lexicon, it means "to receive, retain, to contain". So these translations capture the meaning accurately.

Given Acts 3:21, Jesus isn't coming back to earth until the Second Advent.

John 14:1-3 is a promise from the Lord. He said that He was going to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for us and that He would come back to get us to take us back to those places that He prepared which are in the Father's house, which would be in heaven.

I've explained it above.

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words." - 1 Thess.4:16

This most FAMOUS rapture verse says nothing about returning to heaven.

I Thessalonians above, is a detailed account of the promise made in John 14:1-3, which is when the Lord returns to gather His church. First the dead will rise immortal and glorified, then the living will be changed immortal and glorified and caught up in the clouds with those who will have just resurrected. At that point the entire church from beginning to end will be gathered in the air, where the Lord will take the whole group back to the Father's house. Following that will usher in the time period of God's wrath on the earth known as 'The Day of the Lord" and the tribulation period. The church will not be on the earth during that time, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already suffered it on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely.

There is NO evidence of taking believers to heaven. And Acts 3:21 refutes the idea.

"I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

STILL no evidence of a return to heaven.

After Paul gets done admonishing the Corinthians regarding some of them not believing in the resurrection, he finishes with the event of the Lord returning for the church to snatch them up into the air and to take them back to the Father's house

Uh, no. No verse teaches "take them back to the Father's house". You are just conflating 2 verses from DIFFERENT contexts.

which is made clear in the first part of the verse where Paul says "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" which is would be referring to heaven.

No, Paul was talking about the fact that human physical bodies cannot survive in heaven.

Believers must be changed immortal and glorified in order to inherit the kingdom of God, because this present body decays and perishes.

So?

So, when you take all of these scriptures into account, you can now say that you have seen scriptures that show that the Lord is coming to take believers back to heaven.

Nope. Only by conflating several verses would one come up with your view.

Acts 3:21 says Jesus REMAINS in heaven until the time of restoration of all things. That would be the Second Advent.

Only a stubborn or spiritually blind person would continue to contend against this truth.

Why do you contend against the truth of Scripture? I just showed you a verse that refutes ANY notion of Jesus returning BEFORE the Second Advent.

Those who believe that Jesus comes to earth and takes believers back to heaven have NO VERSES that plainly teach that.

You are trying to connect dots that aren't connected.

 

[Ahwatukee]

FreeGrace2 said:
What you lack is any evidence that Jesus raptures people and takes them to heaven. NONE of the rapture verses mentions any trip to heaven.

The verse doesn't say anything about transformed believers being taken to heaven.

Oh, but it does! You are just refusing to link the scriptures together and acknowledge truth. This is why God put in multiple scriptures regarding the same subjects, so that scripture supports scripture.

Here are the scriptures again:

"But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body."

The reference to transforming our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body, is referred to in both I Thess.4:16-17 and 1 Cor.15:51-53, when the Lord returns to get us. And the reason for that, is because we need to be changed immortal and glorified before we can go back to heaven with Him.

"Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

So when it says, we (dead and living believers) will changed into our immortal and glorified bodies and then caught up to meet the Lord in the air, where do you think we go from there? That would be back to the Father's house. At some time that promise must be fulfilled. In addition, the fact that the other scripture states that our citizenship is in heaven and that we await a Savior from there, where at which time He will transform our bodies to be immortal and glorified, in order to inherit the kingdom of God in heaven, because these flesh and blood bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God as the scripture states

So, we have a promise from the Lord that He went to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for us and that He is coming back to gather us to take us back to the Father's house, as revealed in John 14:1-3. I Thess.4:16-17, which is a detailed account of that event.

Then in Philippians 3:20, we have Paul stating that our citizenship is in heaven and that we eagerly await a Savior from there, who is going to transform these perishing bodies immortal and glorified.

Honestly, If you can't make these simple scriptural connections, then you have no business teaching anything regarding end-time events. But I believe that the Spirit wrote it this way purposely, because it weeds out those who are truly looking for the truth of His word and those who aren't. You and others always reject what the Spirit has revealed to others, distorting and circumventing His word. There is no scriptural reasoning or logic with you people. And you refuse to learn from those who have studies and continue to study this information.

I'm not against you! I'm saying open your eyes and consider what is being revealed to you, being like a Berean searching the scriptures to see if what we are telling you is the truth. Stop rejecting this information just for the sake of rejecting it!

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
The verse doesn't say anything about transformed believers being taken to heaven.

Oh, but it does! You are just refusing to link the scriptures together and acknowledge truth.

You just acknowledged your own error. I specifically mentioned a verse. But you admitted you have to "link verses together".

But the problem is that what you are "linking" don't actually link.

"But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body."

This is a clear reference to our resurrection. But NOTHING about going to heaven afterward.

The reference to transforming our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body, is referred to in both I Thess.4:16-17 and 1 Cor.15:51-53, when the Lord returns to get us. And the reason for that, is because we need to be changed immortal and glorified before we can go back to heaven with Him.

But it doesn't SAY ANYTHING about going back to heaven. Your achilles heel.

"Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

Still nothing about going back to heaven.

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

This premier rapture verse says NOTHING about going to heaven.

So when it says, we (dead and living believers) will changed into our immortal and glorified bodies and then caught up to meet the Lord in the air, where do you think we go from there?

Great question! The SAME PLACE as our Lord is going. To set up His kingdom rule on earth.

That would be back to the Father's house.

Based on what clear verse, exactly? That's the problem with your view. You don't have any verses.

At some time that promise must be fulfilled.

What promise?

In addition, the fact that the other scripture states that our citizenship is in heaven and that we await a Savior from there, where at which time He will transform our bodies to be immortal and glorified, in order to inherit the kingdom of God in heaven, because these flesh and blood bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God as the scripture states

Don't you know that heaven is where God lives? Jesus' reign will exist on into the new earth. And we'll be with Him forever.

That will be heavenly.

So, we have a promise from the Lord that He went to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for us and that He is coming back to gather us to take us back to the Father's house, as revealed in John 14:1-3.

That's already been fulfilled. Jesus hadn't yet died or resurrected. So He DID come back, when He was resurrected. And He went and prepared rooms for believers.

I Thess.4:16-17, which is a detailed account of that event.

There is NOTHING about going back to heaven in this premier rapture verse!!

Then in Philippians 3:20, we have Paul stating that our citizenship is in heaven and that we eagerly await a Savior from there, who is going to transform these perishing bodies immortal and glorified.

Maybe it hasn't dawned on you, but when Paul wrote that, he was clearly expecting to go to heaven when he died. As all believers do when they die. Up to the present time.

[QUTOE]Honestly, If you can't make these simple scriptural connections, then you have no business teaching anything regarding end-time events.[/QUOTE]
I'm not the one having the problem. None of your verses support your claims.

And why don't you address Acts 3:21, which I explained to you?

 

[Absolutely]

I said:
The verse doesn't say anything about transformed believers being taken to heaven.

You just acknowledged your own error. I specifically mentioned a verse. But you admitted you have to "link verses together".

But the problem is that what you are "linking" don't actually link.


This is a clear reference to our resurrection. But NOTHING about going to heaven afterward.


But it doesn't SAY ANYTHING about going back to heaven. Your achilles heel.


Still nothing about going back to heaven.


This premier rapture verse says NOTHING about going to heaven.


Great question! The SAME PLACE as our Lord is going. To set up His kingdom rule on earth.


Based on what clear verse, exactly? That's the problem with your view. You don't have any verses.


What promise?


Don't you know that heaven is where God lives? Jesus' reign will exist on into the new earth. And we'll be with Him forever.

That will be heavenly.


That's already been fulfilled. Jesus hadn't yet died or resurrected. So He DID come back, when He was resurrected. And He went and prepared rooms for believers.


There is NOTHING about going back to heaven in this premier rapture verse!!


Maybe it hasn't dawned on you, but when Paul wrote that, he was clearly expecting to go to heaven when he died. As all believers do when they die. Up to the present time.

[QUTOE]Honestly, If you can't make these simple scriptural connections, then you have no business teaching anything regarding end-time events.

10 virgins
Last supper dialogue
Rev 14
1 thes 4
Lot and noah ( ironic that you have no clue either came immediately back, nor were removed POST JUDGEMENT)
ACTS 1
Rev 19
Mat 24

ALL TESTIFY AGAINST YOU.

You have zero verses that show a immediate u turn at the rapture.

None...zero.

Psssst....noah left prejudgement
Returned postjudgement

Perfect pretrib removal and postrib return picture of the rapture.

You have no case at all
None

 

[Absolutely]

I said:
The verse doesn't say anything about transformed believers being taken to heaven.

You just acknowledged your own error. I specifically mentioned a verse. But you admitted you have to "link verses together".

But the problem is that what you are "linking" don't actually link.


This is a clear reference to our resurrection. But NOTHING about going to heaven afterward.


But it doesn't SAY ANYTHING about going back to heaven. Your achilles heel.


Still nothing about going back to heaven.


This premier rapture verse says NOTHING about going to heaven.


Great question! The SAME PLACE as our Lord is going. To set up His kingdom rule on earth.


Based on what clear verse, exactly? That's the problem with your view. You don't have any verses.


What promise?


Don't you know that heaven is where God lives? Jesus' reign will exist on into the new earth. And we'll be with Him forever.

That will be heavenly.


That's already been fulfilled. Jesus hadn't yet died or resurrected. So He DID come back, when He was resurrected. And He went and prepared rooms for believers.


There is NOTHING about going back to heaven in this premier rapture verse!!


Maybe it hasn't dawned on you, but when Paul wrote that, he was clearly expecting to go to heaven when he died. As all believers do when they die. Up to the present time.

[QUTOE]Honestly, If you can't make these simple scriptural connections, then you have no business teaching anything regarding end-time events.

Acts 3:21 addresses the restitution of all things.

No problem concerning the rapture

No smoking gun.

 

[FreeGrace2]

10 virgins

Nope. Just a highly spiritualized (made up story) parable.

Last supper dialogue

Nope.

Rev 14

Nope.

1 thes 4

Lot and noah ( ironic that you have no clue either came immediately back, nor were removed POST JUDGEMENT)

Rather, you have NO CLUE about the fact that there is nothing about being resurrected/raptured and taken to heaven.

ACTS 1

Nope. This is Christ's Second Advent. But yes, that is when He will resurrect and rapture believers. But not go back to heaven.

Rev 19

The wording makes clear what is about to occur, which is the wedding supper. Not that it IS occurring during ch 19.

Mat 24

This is a Second Advent passage, which occurs AFTER the Tribulation. And again, NO MENTION of going up to heaven.

ALL TESTIFY AGAINST YOU.

You, sir, have no clue.

You have zero verses that show a immediate u turn at the rapture.

How funny. It's the pre-tribbers who have a U turm in their theology. That Jesus comes to the clouds of earth, where the LIVING believers are, and resurrects all the dead believers and raptures all the LIVING believers, and then makes this huge U-turn back to heaven with the whole lot of believers, both dead and living.

I don't need a "u-turn" in a post-trib rapture. You need one for a pre-trib raptue. Yes, you really do not have a clue.

Psssst....noah left prejudgement
Returned postjudgement

More cluelessness. What did Noah leave? Nothing. He STAYED on the earth. Being overfilled with water changes nothing.

And he didn't "return" to earth. He was already ON the earth, with a water overlay.

But those who are forced to "spiritualize" to prop up their unbiblical notions will make up a lot of stuff.

Perfect pretrib removal and postrib return picture of the rapture.

I just pointed out the total failure of all your examples of what you erroneously use to promote the false idea that Jesus takes raptured believers to heaven, regardless of timeframe.

You have no case at all
None

Just total cluelessness.

2 Thess 2:1-3 proves that living believers are "gathered UP" when Christ returns at the Second Advent, which everyone knows occurs AFTER the Tribulation.

And Acts 3:21 says that heaven "receives" Jesus until the restoration of all things. The Greek word means "to receive, retain, to contain". This verse alone refutes any notions that Jesus makes a trip to earth before "the restoration of all things".

Get a clue.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Acts 3:21 addresses the restitution of all things.
No problem concerning the rapture

It also addresses the FACT that heaven "receives" (meaning 'to retain, to contain') Jesus until the restoration of all things.

Quite interesting that you had to leave that part out. Which would be expected since you believe that Jesus does leave heaven for a quite trip to earth to rapture living believers and taking them back to heaven.

And all without ANY verse that teaches that raptured believers are taken to heaven.

Just clueless.

 

[Absolutely]

Oh, but it does! You are just refusing to link the scriptures together and acknowledge truth. This is why God put in multiple scriptures regarding the same subjects, so that scripture supports scripture.

Here are the scriptures again:

"But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body."

The reference to transforming our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body, is referred to in both I Thess.4:16-17 and 1 Cor.15:51-53, when the Lord returns to get us. And the reason for that, is because we need to be changed immortal and glorified before we can go back to heaven with Him.

"Now I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

So when it says, we (dead and living believers) will changed into our immortal and glorified bodies and then caught up to meet the Lord in the air, where do you think we go from there? That would be back to the Father's house. At some time that promise must be fulfilled. In addition, the fact that the other scripture states that our citizenship is in heaven and that we await a Savior from there, where at which time He will transform our bodies to be immortal and glorified, in order to inherit the kingdom of God in heaven, because these flesh and blood bodies cannot inherit the kingdom of God as the scripture states

So, we have a promise from the Lord that He went to the Father's house (heaven) to prepare places for us and that He is coming back to gather us to take us back to the Father's house, as revealed in John 14:1-3. I Thess.4:16-17, which is a detailed account of that event.

Then in Philippians 3:20, we have Paul stating that our citizenship is in heaven and that we eagerly await a Savior from there, who is going to transform these perishing bodies immortal and glorified.

Honestly, If you can't make these simple scriptural connections, then you have no business teaching anything regarding end-time events. But I believe that the Spirit wrote it this way purposely, because it weeds out those who are truly looking for the truth of His word and those who aren't. You and others always reject what the Spirit has revealed to others, distorting and circumventing His word. There is no scriptural reasoning or logic with you people. And you refuse to learn from those who have studies and continue to study this information.

I'm not against you! I'm saying open your eyes and consider what is being revealed to you, being like a Berean searching the scriptures to see if what we are telling you is the truth. Stop rejecting this information just for the sake of rejecting it!

Not only that but only select Jews are sealed against the flying scorpions during the trib.
IOW no believers are present because they are in heaven.
Plus rev 19 has the bride becoming the wife in heaven....so how did we get there?