Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.

[Truth7t7]

just that it is before the end of the trib and the 144k are gathered as firstfruits which automatically involves main harvest.
rev 14 is neither the rapture or the second coming
the gathering is Jewish because the 144k are firstfruit Jews.
Jacobs trouble is Israels trouble.
the gt is the stage where God deals with the covenant Jews. (Israel)

the ac kills all who refuse the mark. The Jews are ushered into protection with the devil in pursuit.

the flying scorpions are commanded not to hurt the 144k messianic jews (which are already sealed by being born again,but in need of sealing against the scorpions.)

here is the heart of the matter: the entire end times is begun by the rapture and the advent of the ac.
this is test fit.
anything else and the business in heaven is bypassed and we lose the connectability of the dots.
end times is not a "trib/wrath/second coming" dynamic.
it is the gathering of the 2 groups for business in heaven.
the trib is like the flood of Noah's day. Noah was high into the heavens via the ark while the horror was below him.
we also will be high above the horror of the Judgement of God during the gt.

the gathering of the Jewish ripe fruit of rev 14;15 is the declaration at the first miracle of Jesus ...it was at a wedding ,it had to dowith grapes (wine) and the declaration was "but you saved the best wine for last"

that is the Jews. they come to the wedding in heaven LAST. the best for last.

IOW, the first miracle by Jesus HAD TO BE AT A WEDDING and involve grapes.

without the Jew there is no christianity. (ruth came in through naomi)

without ruth naomi could not regain inheritance.
both came in through boaz.

the depth of end times is hidden.
Framing it around the gt is like going to a bible class where the ot is never studied.
you can "get there" but it is so very lacking in depth.

You sound like a screen writer for the (Left Behind) series, Tim La Haye is that you?

Revelation 14:14-20 is nothing more than the last day resurrection and final judgement.

First reaping is the saved, second is the wicked, its that simple

I must admit, you have creative "Imagination"

Matthew 13:36-43 below, gives a detailed explanation of the reaping of the Angel's, a 3rd grade sunday school teaching.

Revelation 1414-20KJV
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

Matthew 13:36-43KJV
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
On the contrary, I gave you a color coded explanation of the v.17-19 that shows that the "gathering" has NOTHING to do with saved people.
You've shown a terrible misunderstanding of ch 14.

tell me what it is

Your misunderstanding. What you believe ch 14 means. I hope I don't have to tell you what you believe.

 

[FreeGrace2]

please forgive the childish verses i posted and tell me the correct interpretation of rev 14.

i will wait.

Well, I already have. The last part, from v.14-20, is a summary of what is about to occur, which refers to the last part of the Tribulation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

never ever said it was the rapture. you falsely ascribed it .

So, what do you think this "gathering" refers to?

then you combined 2 gatherings into one.

OK, please specify WHEN each of these "2 gatherings" occur, exactly.

vs 15 is Jesus gathering ripe fruit

What is "ripe fruit" in your mind?

vs 18 is an angel gathering over ripe fruit.

What is the angel "gathering" which is "over ripe fruit"?

you did not see that?????

I can read as well as you can. Now, please answer my questions so I will finally understand what you think ch 14 is about.

I'll wait.

 

[FreeGrace2]

here is the heart of the matter: the entire end times is begun by the rapture and the advent of the ac.

Now we're getting somewhere, hopefully. When, in regard to the Tribulation, do you think the rapture occurs? It sounds from your statement above that it is pre-Trib. This thread is all about that.

So, if your view is that the rapture is pre-Trib, please provide the verses that make that clear.

this is test fit.

What does this mean?

anything else and the business in heaven is bypassed and we lose the connectability of the dots.

I would ask what this means, but never mind.

end times is not a "trib/wrath/second coming" dynamic.
it is the gathering of the 2 groups for business in heaven.

OK, provide verses that support your "2 groups for business in heaven" idea.

the gathering of the Jewish ripe fruit of rev 14;15 is the declaration at the first miracle of Jesus ...it was at a wedding ,it had to dowith grapes (wine) and the declaration was "but you saved the best wine for last"

that is the Jews. they come to the wedding in heaven LAST. the best for last.

Since ch 19 doesn't support this idea, what verses do?

 

[GaryA]

(The Day Of The Lord)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The 'Day of the Lord' is both:

1) a [specific] 1000-year span of time
2) the first day of that 1000 years

And, 2 Peter 3:8 is a major part of what shows us that.

You can refuse to see it all-the-day-long if you like - but, it is there - "plain as day" - for the understanding.

The 'Day of the Lord' is the 7th 1000-year day [from creation] - and - it is the [24-hour] day that Christ returns.

Context of scripture shows us what is being referred to.

 

[GaryA]

@FreeGrace2 - just curious - why will you not quote your own posts???

 

[GaryA]

You [can] quote your own posts the same way you quote the posts of other members:

On the contrary, I gave you a color coded explanation of the v.17-19 that shows that the "gathering" has NOTHING to do with saved people.

@FreeGrace2 - just curious - why will you not quote your own posts???

See?

And - it provides a link so that others may see where the quote came from...

 

[TheWaytoGo]

Hello!

If you are speaking in regards to Jesus' insertion in red above, what you posted would not be supported by this. There is just nothing in that verse that would support your post above. If you look at the context, it is a warning to those righteous on the earth at that time to remain awake and clothed, that being figurative to keep themselves pure and watching for the Lord's return. Although, I have wondered also if it is warning to the reader to always be watching and keeping oneself from the sinful nature so that they do not enter into that time period of God's wrath.

In regards to when the Lord comes down from heaven and the church with Him, there are no weapons mentioned, nor would we need them. For we would all be in our immortal and glorified bodies which will have have power. That said, I'm sure that there won't be much of a battle with the immortal against mortal.

That verse is written while God's Wrath is being poured out AFTER the Tribulation and AFTER the First Resurrection, therefore, He is not talking to believers, but the unrighteous.

 

[FreeGrace2]

@FreeGrace2 - just curious - why will you not quote your own posts???

I generally do, for context. So my response to the poster will be better understood.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You [can] quote your own posts the same way you quote the posts of other members:



See?

And - it provides a link so that others may see where the quote came from...

Yep. And I've been doing that.

 

[Ahwatukee]

That verse is written while God's Wrath is being poured out AFTER the Tribulation and AFTER the First Resurrection, therefore, He is not talking to believers, but the unrighteous.

Hello TheWaytoGo!

The verse does not support your claim of the verse referring to the unrighteous.

"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed."

First of all, The seals, trumpets and bowl judgements, as well as the plagues of the two witnesses, is what makes up the tribulation/great tribulation period. The verse above is inserted by the Lord at the pouring out of the 6th bowl, which would take place before the 7th bowl is poured out and which completes God's wrath. So, I don't know why you would claim that it is written after God's wrath, when there is one bowl left to be poured out.

And second, in regards to your claim 'He's not talking to believers, but the unrighteous,' the verse says 'blessed is the one who [stays awake]' which would be a warning to those who are already awake and alert. For you can't stay awake if you were never awake in the first place, which would be the case with unbelievers. The warning for them to stay awake and remaining clothed, would be in reference to believers to continue in faith, being watchful and alert, while the unrighteous would not be in that state to begin with.

In addition, how could the verse be referring to the unrighteous (unbelievers), when they would not be reading the word of God in order to heed the warning? Only those who would be familiar with God's word would understand the warning. Therefore, the warning is to believers in Christ, specifically, the saints during the great tribulation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

“And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I addressed that passage / verse / wording ^ in my Post #402 (page 21) of this thread, back on Jan 31 (perhaps this was before you joined in on the thread?) Please see that post :

https://christianchat.com/threads/l...the-rapture-is-compelling.197095/post-4481614

 

[cv5]

I believe it's part of The Gospel. "This Gospel of The Kingdom". Jesus paid for this earth with his blood.
Perhaps some churches don't teach very much on it but I find it quite difficult to avoid.

Isaiah 2
This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:

2 In the last days

the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established
as the highest of the mountains;
it will be exalted above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.
3 Many peoples will come and say,

‘Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
to the temple of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.’
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into ploughshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war any more.
5 Come, descendants of Jacob,
let us walk in the light of the Lord.

Given that quote no one in their right mind could ever deny the coming earthly reign of Lord Jesus Messiah. Compound that with the hundreds and hundreds of other similar quotes.

Any other position is abject refusal of the love of the truth.

 

[Runningman]

Rapture references are always set in context of the return of Christ. Christ returns after the great tribulation. It's very simple.

 

[cv5]

“And when they had preached the gospel to that city, and had taught many, they returned again to Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch,

Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭14:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are tribulations and then there is THE Tribulation/Great Tribulation. The time of Gods Wrath that only occurs when the Restrainer is taken out of the way. Which only occurs only after the man of sin is revealed. A very specific period of time delineated in Daniel chapter 9 & 12 as precisely 7 years and 3.5 years. A specific period of time known as the Day of the Lord, of which the prophets have spoken about more than almost anything else.

Acts 14 is NOT speaking of this period of time for reasons that are patently obvious.

 

[cv5]

Rapture references are always set in context of the return of Christ. Christ returns after the great tribulation. It's very simple.

Is that what your Church teaches? What is this denomination?

 

[cv5]

Rapture references are always set in context of the return of Christ. Christ returns after the great tribulation. It's very simple.

The time of Gods Wrath may be your problem but it is not my problem...

Rev 3:10
“Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

 

[cv5]

Rapture references are always set in context of the return of Christ. Christ returns after the great tribulation. It's very simple.

Maybe your problem is that you are attending the wrong denomination? The Sardis denomination? Which some commentators believe is the Reformation Church.
Rev 3:3
“Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you.

Perhaps the Thyatira Church?
Rev 2:2
“Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.