Let scripture change your mind, don't bent scripture to fit your thinking.

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Locoponydirtman

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#1
#1
So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”
JOHN 20:21‭-‬23 NASB
Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
ACTS 1:4‭-‬5 NASB

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
ACTS 2:4 NASB

So it appears that there is receiving the Holy Spirit, and then there is being baptized in the Holy Spirit or as some say a full of the Holy Spirit

Please no rhetoric let's just have a biblical discussion because I want to learn something rather than have a bunch of folks sticking to their guns argue. Back what you have to say with scripture please.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#2
It seems we agree.

Is there a verse for that? ;)
 
crossnote

crossnote

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Dino246 said:
It seems we agree.

Is there a verse for that? ;)
Click to expand...
Psalm 133:1 (KJV) A Song of degrees of David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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I dont have any guns.

I was reading this book called boundaries. It was a christian book about making boundaries for kids.
The author kept quoting random scripturees throughout but every so often they would say 'stick to your guns' which is not a phrase from the Bible.
So I dont know where they got that from.

Its an american book, so maybe its meant for americans who like guns.

After I read that book I thought, hmm could work but they never mentioned just praying and letting the holy spirit move and convict peoples hearts so that they wouldnt need all these boundaries.

Pop psychology meets the Bible that book.

Also why didnt they say 'abide in the vine' instead of 'stick to your guns'?!
 
L

Locoponydirtman

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#5
#5
Lanolin said:
I dont have any guns.

I was reading this book called boundaries. It was a christian book about making boundaries for kids.
The author kept quoting random scripturees throughout but every so often they would say 'stick to your guns' which is not a phrase from the Bible.
So I dont know where they got that from.

Its an american book, so maybe its meant for americans who like guns.

After I read that book I thought, hmm could work but they never mentioned just praying and letting the holy spirit move and convict peoples hearts so that they wouldnt need all these boundaries.

Pop psychology meets the Bible that book.

Also why didnt they say 'abide in the vine' instead of 'stick to your guns'?!
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Stick to your guns, is an American idiom that means hold your ground or dont back down.
I never read those types of books. Christian pop psychology stuff is often just as bad as the same from the world.
I'm not trying to be offensive by saying stick to your guns, it's just a very common idiom.
So my idea is to let the scripture say what it says rather than use the scripture to support our own mind.
This has been an enlightening study for me and I can deny what the scripture says. The disciples received two separate dispensations of the Holy spirit. One when Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit and then an infilling in the upper room. It also seems to bear out in reason as to what happened in Samaria. Phillip, preached and did miracles and baptized many believers the John and Peter came and laid their hands on them and they received the holy spirit.
Now when you continue reading you find Phillip teaches an Ethiopian and baptizes him in water in the believers baptisim but is then immediately taken away and there was no infilling by the Holy Spirit, yet the Holy Spirit is who guided Phillip to him.
Now my question is why had Phillip not been passing the infilling of the Spirit to people as he preached and baptized them in water? Peter and John did that later.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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Dec 15, 2018
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#6
Locoponydirtman said:
Stick to your guns, is an American idiom that means hold your ground or dont back down.
I never read those types of books. Christian pop psychology stuff is often just as bad as the same from the world.
I'm not trying to be offensive by saying stick to your guns, it's just a very common idiom.
So my idea is to let the scripture say what it says rather than use the scripture to support our own mind.
This has been an enlightening study for me and I can deny what the scripture says. The disciples received two separate dispensations of the Holy spirit. One when Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit and then an infilling in the upper room. It also seems to bear out in reason as to what happened in Samaria. Phillip, preached and did miracles and baptized many believers the John and Peter came and laid their hands on them and they received the holy spirit.
Now when you continue reading you find Phillip teaches an Ethiopian and baptizes him in water in the believers baptisim but is then immediately taken away and there was no infilling by the Holy Spirit, yet the Holy Spirit is who guided Phillip to him.
Now my question is why had Phillip not been passing the infilling of the Spirit to people as he preached and baptized them in water? Peter and John did that later.
Click to expand...
Dont know, what makes you think the euncuch wasnt filled with the holy spirit? He did declares Jesus Christ is the son of God. Which is the eunuch confessing with his mouth.

I have noticed that in some churches, when they baptise people, they often just ask them if they believe and all the people have to say is yes, or nod, but its very different when a believer declares with their own mouth that Jesus is Lord. I often wonder WHY they ask them instead of letting the person who is baptised speak and declare their faith, as evidence that they believe. As Anyone could say 'yes' To anyone. Its like people who get married and all they have to say is 'i do' after the celebrant asks them some questions but they dont actually mean their vows cos they dont even say them.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#7
Lanolin said:
I have noticed that in some churches, when they baptise people, they often just ask them if they believe and all the people have to say is yes, or nod, but its very different when a believer declares with their own mouth that Jesus is Lord. I often wonder WHY they ask them instead of letting the person who is baptised speak and declare their faith, as evidence that they believe. As Anyone could say 'yes' To anyone. Its like people who get married and all they have to say is 'i do' after the celebrant asks them some questions but they dont actually mean their vows cos they dont even say them.
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Yes people can mouth anything, but God knows if it's coming from their heart.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
(Rom 10:9-10)
 
Chester

Chester

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May 23, 2016
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Locoponydirtman said:
So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them and *said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”
JOHN 20:21‭-‬23 NASB
Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
ACTS 1:4‭-‬5 NASB

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
ACTS 2:4 NASB

So it appears that there is receiving the Holy Spirit, and then there is being baptized in the Holy Spirit or as some say a full of the Holy Spirit

Please no rhetoric let's just have a biblical discussion because I want to learn something rather than have a bunch of folks sticking to their guns argue. Back what you have to say with scripture please.
Click to expand...
So let's go with your statement, "So it appears that there is receiving the Holy Spirit, and then there is being baptized in the Holy Spirit or as some say a full of the Holy Spirit".

Yeah, I see where the disciples received the Spirit in John 20:21-23. Then I see from Acts 1:4-5 that Jesus said that the disciples would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And then I see from Acts 2:4 that the disciples were filled with the Spirit.

How did you come up with the idea that being baptized in the Holy Spirit is the same as being "full of the Spirit"? It seems that is what you say in your statement. Also you say "there is receiving the Spirit, and then there is being baptized . . ." - Do you mean that receiving the Spirit and being baptized with the Spirit are two different things? If so, where does the text say this?
 
Deade

Deade

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#9
Locoponydirtman said:
Now my question is why had Phillip not been passing the infilling of the Spirit to people as he preached and baptized them in water? Peter and John did that later.
Click to expand...
You are saying when a man receives the Holy Spirit he then becomes able to discern God's word. right? There is another spirit that pretends to teach us that comes from the dark side. That spirit is very good as wrestling and twisting the word to say something completely different. How can we discern which spirit is teaching us?

Consider: Ephesians 5:8-10 "For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord." It should show!:)
 
Didymous

Didymous

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#10
Feb 22, 2018
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Locoponydirtman said:
“Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”
Click to expand...
Is this something we can do, or was this just something the apostles could do?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Locoponydirtman said:
So it appears that there is receiving the Holy Spirit, and then there is being baptized in the Holy Spirit or as some say a full of the Holy Spirit
Click to expand...
The apostles received the Holy Spirit after the resurrection of Christ and before Pentecost. But they received the fulness of the Spirit on the day of Pentecost.

At the same time the baptism WITH the Spirit and the gift of the Holy Ghost are one and the same thing (Acts 2:38). This baptism is an outpouring and immersion in the Holy Spirit which produces the New Birth (renewal and regeneration).

TITUS 3
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us [POURED OUT ON US] abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; [BAPTISM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT]

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
 
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Locoponydirtman

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#13
#13
Lanolin said:
Dont know, what makes you think the euncuch wasnt filled with the holy spirit? He did declares Jesus Christ is the son of God. Which is the eunuch confessing with his mouth.

I have noticed that in some churches, when they baptise people, they often just ask them if they believe and all the people have to say is yes, or nod, but its very different when a believer declares with their own mouth that Jesus is Lord. I often wonder WHY they ask them instead of letting the person who is baptised speak and declare their faith, as evidence that they believe. As Anyone could say 'yes' To anyone. Its like people who get married and all they have to say is 'i do' after the celebrant asks them some questions but they dont actually mean their vows cos they dont even say them.
Click to expand...
I don't know if he was or not. I know the scripture doesn't say exactly that he was and I guess the former experience with the Samarians kind of leads the thought or at least affected mine, because they also baptized by Phillip but not in the Holy Spirit. Peter and John came later. But not the text does not specify.

Also your second point is a good one. Why not have them say it with their own mouth and voice?
 
L

Locoponydirtman

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#15
#15
Chester said:
So let's go with your statement, "So it appears that there is receiving the Holy Spirit, and then there is being baptized in the Holy Spirit or as some say a full of the Holy Spirit".

Yeah, I see where the disciples received the Spirit in John 20:21-23. Then I see from Acts 1:4-5 that Jesus said that the disciples would be baptized with the Holy Spirit. And then I see from Acts 2:4 that the disciples were filled with the Spirit.

How did you come up with the idea that being baptized in the Holy Spirit is the same as being "full of the Spirit"? It seems that is what you say in your statement. Also you say "there is receiving the Spirit, and then there is being baptized . . ." - Do you mean that receiving the Spirit and being baptized with the Spirit are two different things? If so, where does the text say this?
Click to expand...
How I came to that conclusion was that I read the 20th chapter of John the first through I think eight chapter of Acts and the 1st Corinthians 12 13 and 14 over and over and over trying to make sense of it.
Now you're welcome to share your interpretation and I will read it and I will consider it.
I'm not going to debate anything because I don't know anything to debate.
I am pouring out everything that I thought that I knew and replacing it with new knowledge asset is found during reading and study of scripture.
I can be wrong I have been before.
 
S

SpoonJuly

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#16
#16
Remember that different translations lead to what is perceived as TRUTH.
Sadly, truth has become a very fluid thing in the minds of men because of the many translations.
 
A

allaboutJesus4me

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#17
Feb 21, 2015
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#17
Lanolin said:
Dont know, what makes you think the euncuch wasnt filled with the holy spirit? He did declares Jesus Christ is the son of God. Which is the eunuch confessing with his mouth.

I have noticed that in some churches, when they baptise people, they often just ask them if they believe and all the people have to say is yes, or nod, but its very different when a believer declares with their own mouth that Jesus is Lord. I often wonder WHY they ask them instead of letting the person who is baptised speak and declare their faith, as evidence that they believe. As Anyone could say 'yes' To anyone. Its like people who get married and all they have to say is 'i do' after the celebrant asks them some questions but they dont actually mean their vows cos they dont even say them.
Click to expand...
Hello....I would like to share my personal experience- I was raised in church. Many times i would go to the altar to confess and to seek Jesus... Every time, upon arising from the altar, the Minister would ask, "Do you believe what this word of God says? That if you believe with your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, then you are saved! Are you saved?" Which I would respond with an " I don't know." Pastor: "Well, of course you know sister! You just said you believe didn't you?" Humbly and shaking-ly i'd say "Yeeessss..." With which I would hear, "Ok then church! She's saved! Let's just praise the Lord!" I knew in myself that nothing had happened> My soul was just as hungry as if I'd never went down to the altar. But, all thanks be unto Jesus, My Lord and Savior!!! He kept me hungry and thirsting for Him!!! ...At 18 yrs. old, in church, Jesus began talking to my heart with ever so much pressure that I hung onto the bench in front of me so hard the bench was trembling! I knew the Spirit of God was in control! The Lord God spoke to me: "Look up here on this stage!" I Looked and behold an indescribable glittering, flashing Light lit up the whole front end of the building! I knew it was The Shekinah Glory of The Lord God Himself! A Loud Ringing Voice Spoke: "Come Unto Me!" I literally made my way out to the aisle, ran down screaming, "Lord God Jesus, have mercy on me, Please have mercy on me!!!" On my knees at the altar, I reached into that Shekinah Glory Light, with which I was immediately supernaturally, knocked backwards, still on my knees crying unto The Lord!!!...The whole congregation was weeping, crying, calling out to Jesus, others running to the altar, as The Holy Spirit moved upon them!...After a while it grew quiet...The Evangelist made his way to my side saying, " Well sister can you tell us what happened?" I said, I can tell you this of a surety from Jesus Himself, Today...Oh Yes today, I have been 'Born Again!!!" We all shouted and praised Jesus together!!! That was 41 years ago, and it gets sweeter every day!!!! Glory to God in The Highest!!!! Jesus is Alive! Seek HIM until HE HIMSELF gives (whoever doesn't yet 'know') that Blessed Assurance!!! He so wants to!!!
 
J

jaybird88

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#18
#18
i have always had a different opinion of the "spirit" i see lots of people talking about "I have the spirit" or "you got to get the spirit" but IMO the spirit is not something that you can just snap your fingers and get. people like Elijah had the spirit and he could call down fire from the heavens or look down on someone in the next county. thats my idea of someone with the spirit.
 
Deade

Deade

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#19
jaybird88 said:
i have always had a different opinion of the "spirit" i see lots of people talking about "I have the spirit" or "you got to get the spirit" but IMO the spirit is not something that you can just snap your fingers and get. people like Elijah had the spirit and he could call down fire from the heavens or look down on someone in the next county. thats my idea of someone with the spirit.
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The Elijah anointing is quite large to compare with. That was the very Spirit of faith. I would think most have somewhat less anointing than that. But scripture says he is coming again!

allaboutJesus4me said:
Jesus is Alive! Seek HIM until HE HIMSELF gives (whoever doesn't yet 'know') that Blessed Assurance!!! He so wants to!!!
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He let you know He was ready for you: Blessed Assurance Jesus is mine! Praise God!:love:
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#20
Jul 31, 2013
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#20
Lanolin said:
Dont know, what makes you think the euncuch wasnt filled with the holy spirit? He did declares Jesus Christ is the son of God. Which is the eunuch confessing with his mouth.

I have noticed that in some churches, when they baptise people, they often just ask them if they believe and all the people have to say is yes, or nod, but its very different when a believer declares with their own mouth that Jesus is Lord. I often wonder WHY they ask them instead of letting the person who is baptised speak and declare their faith, as evidence that they believe. As Anyone could say 'yes' To anyone. Its like people who get married and all they have to say is 'i do' after the celebrant asks them some questions but they dont actually mean their vows cos they dont even say them.
Click to expand...
right; what are they going to do, say no?
 
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