lets have some Bible study shall we?

[PeterJens]

A spirit that is not helpful.

I do find it discouraging to continually read of denial of basic scriptural principles of sin, repentance, purity, holiness, walking in the Spirit. But equally the Lord has overcome, is victorious. Jesus calls me to just rejoice in what I have, and give glory to His name, which I do do. My life literally has been founded on just taking one step after another as He has led me.

All I can say He has blessed me unbelievably in all I have tried, so I am just humbled before the cross and give glory to the work He has done in my heart. So bless you all, because you are all part of His work, and His will which will work towards those who are saved to eternity, whichever side of the fence you are on. So I encourage you to follow Jesus and walk in love, Amen

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG thankyou for your contribution. I do not understand how you draw your conclusions, calling me a liar, slanderer, hypocrite, legalist, denier of my own sin, devaluing Gods word and His standards, my faith is false, and say I am saying sin is ok and claim righteousness.

This is a pretty total writing off of another believer. You have continually done this to me.

My points are simple. Walking in righteousness is possible through Christ. You obviously reject this, or else you would not respond as you do.

It is possible. In fact is is not only possible. It is an assurance, That is what seperates you and I peter.

You think it is possible, I think it is a reality.

EG my one point to you is simple. I know what stirs my heart, how Jesus touched me, and how I have life in His Spirit.
I am concerned for who you are, because none of the things I share touch you, it is like talking to someone with a heart of stone. And it is there we must part, after months of presentation, you have your view and I mine. If what you wrote upset me or spoke to me I would tell you, but as it has no weight, I wonder what you are defending so strongly and why you need to create such a vicious destruction of another. Does it not worry you, how a simple issue about walking in righteousness, giving Glory to God ends up like you have described?

Thats fine, I tried to do this months ago, But you were not willing, You kept saying lies about me, and what I believe, And no matter how many times we shared with you how you were bearing false witness against us, You kept denying it. and continued with your lies.

You responding to me, Or me toughing you, That does not matter, I can only hope God touches you.

All I can do is continue to try to show truth.

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Isaiah 6:3

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Rev 4:8

You say I am a hypocrite, a sinner, slanderer etc. yet I have no conviction on my conscience or before the Lord.
If you have no foundation as to your accusation, you are a false accuser, a worker of iniquity, a follower not of Christ.

The pharisee had no conviction in there heart either. So little conviction that he murdered our Lord. and felt nothing.

so you having no conviction is meaningless.

God tells us not to go by feeling or emotion, that is what the world does.

I am not a false accuser, You are. You have been shown this not just by me, but by numerous people over a period of weeks. yet you continue to deny it.

Thats on you my friend, You can not teach an old dog new tricks, He will still return to his vomit. That dog must be made a new creature in christ.

Until then, I expect nothing more from you. but continued slander and denial

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you for the refreshing post Peter.

I realize that I also owe you an apology ...
I sincerely thought you were of the school that claims salvation can only be maintained by good works.

There may be one or two who sin licentiously and think there is no problem with that ... but I do think most people here - almost all - have respect for God and try their best to keep from sinning. Some say they feel God does it for them, some say they put some effort into it ... but either way ... most seem to shun sin and reach for righteousness in Christ.

"All I can do is be true to my walk and how He has led me." -PJ

I agree and feel the same way. And God is working in us each day to improve our walk with Him. Let us be grateful for that and try to walk in peace with others as we learn, and they learn.

Thank you and may God bless you in your walk with Him as well.

Peace n Love~

He does.. Why do you think he says what he says, and hates on those who say otherwise..

He is just less suttle than people like HeRose and others Who will come right out and say it.

 

[PeterJens]

We get tired of these discussion also.
So please. Show us where someone clearly said sin does not matter, and we can continue to live in sin.

Not being sin conscious. Things that matter needs awareness of it. Ignoring sin, is saying it does not matter.
A post saying "the lamb is slain before the foundation of the world", again is saying sin is resolved, when it is not and this interpretation just encourages such an idea.

Claiming a quote of such a phrase as above is a KO, again is a denial of sin and its influence. I do wonder at the intelligence of some peoples arguments.

Hypocracy. Safety matters because we have a safety officer, except he is blind, deaf and dumb.

EG you also have a distorted view of what sin is and is not. When you eat a meal, who are you feeding? When you sleep, who are you giving in to? When you breath, whose breath are you taking?

All of our lives are to do with ourselves. Doing things for ourselves is not evil, or sinful, it is part of life.
Walking in love is the beginning of righteousness and purity, through this you discover where the "you" lies within it all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A spirit that is not helpful.

I do find it discouraging to continually read of denial of basic scriptural principles of sin, repentance, purity, holiness, walking in the Spirit. But equally the Lord has overcome, is victorious. Jesus calls me to just rejoice in what I have, and give glory to His name, which I do do. My life literally has been founded on just taking one step after another as He has led me.

All I can say He has blessed me unbelievably in all I have tried, so I am just humbled before the cross and give glory to the work He has done in my heart. So bless you all, because you are all part of His work, and His will which will work towards those who are saved to eternity, whichever side of the fence you are on. So I encourage you to follow Jesus and walk in love, Amen

Yet not one person in those room is doing this.

Why do you cotinually lie and say people have no desire to learn these things?

Why do you think people get so angry at you Peter. It is not because your not a nice person, You are, and you have alot of bible knowledge, Sadly, what good is it, when you continually slander people by saying they have no desire to learn things of God, or desire to live in sin, WHEN NOT ONE PERSON IN THIS ROOM BELIEVES OR TEACHES THIS!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not being sin conscious. Things that matter needs awareness of it. Ignoring sin, is saying it does not matter.
A post saying "the lamb is slain before the foundation of the world", again is saying sin is resolved, when it is not and this interpretation just encourages such an idea.

Claiming a quote of such a phrase as above is a KO, again is a denial of sin and its influence. I do wonder at the intelligence of some peoples arguments.

Hypocracy. Safety matters because we have a safety officer, except he is blind, deaf and dumb.

EG you also have a distorted view of what sin is and is not. When you eat a meal, who are you feeding? When you sleep, who are you giving in to? When you breath, whose breath are you taking?

All of our lives are to do with ourselves. Doing things for ourselves is not evil, or sinful, it is part of life.
Walking in love is the beginning of righteousness and purity, through this you discover where the "you" lies within it all.

Revelation 13:8

All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So scripture is lying?

I have a distorted view of what sin is? DO you see me excusing my sin Peter. DO you see me calling my sin mistakes, Accidents, Oopsies? No peter. that is people like you and others who preach godliness by deny its power.

How can you sit there and claim I have a distorted view of what sin is, when my view of sin is much deeper than yours? My view of what constitutes sin is more stringent that yours. My view of what is evil is much deeper than yours. My view of sin says if I have one thought that is self centered God is so horrified, and offended by that thought that if not for the grace of God he would snap his fingers and send me directly to hell. not to pass Go or collect 200 dollars.



I don't get it.

 

[PeterJens]

hates on those who say otherwise..

I "hate" on people?

I do not use the word hate because it is about emnity, rejection, disgust, violence, aggression, bitterness.

I hate the actions of those who commited the holocaust, who took people, their possession and treated them as experiments, as lumps of meat. I know how evil these people were, because I have known the intimate details of the concentration camps and how bad it went. There is probably no more degrading a place than that which these people created, but I do not hate them, I hate what they did.

So to connect me with the idea that I hate, is used by a person who has not been touched by a reason to hate, and the unbelievable evil that satan brings.

To also connect hate with a brother in the Lord is a terrible thing to accuse someone of, especially someone who loves the Lord and has followed Him faithfully for many years. So I wonder at the heart from which this fruit has come.

I wish things were not as they are, that light and darkness did not divide this world, that judgements do not need to come, that the cross did not have to as brutal as it was, but this is what sin does to us and how far we are lost before the King. It is why I bow the knee to the love of Christ and His cross. Oh what a King, the King of Glory

But thanks be to God, who always leads us as captives in Christ’s triumphal procession and uses us to spread the aroma of the knowledge of him everywhere.
2 Cor 2:14

 

[thepsalmist]

Not being sin conscious. Things that matter needs awareness of it. Ignoring sin, is saying it does not matter.
A post saying "the lamb is slain before the foundation of the world", again is saying sin is resolved, when it is not and this interpretation just encourages such an idea.

Claiming a quote of such a phrase as above is a KO, again is a denial of sin and its influence. I do wonder at the intelligence of some peoples arguments.

Hypocracy. Safety matters because we have a safety officer, except he is blind, deaf and dumb.

EG you also have a distorted view of what sin is and is not. When you eat a meal, who are you feeding? When you sleep, who are you giving in to? When you breath, whose breath are you taking?

All of our lives are to do with ourselves. Doing things for ourselves is not evil, or sinful, it is part of life.
Walking in love is the beginning of righteousness and purity, through this you discover where the "you" lies within it all.

Peter ... that quote above is from the Bible ... not an utterance of a follower. They are God's words.

The Lamb was slain before the beginning of the world ... so that whoever would believe on Him would have eternal life. When we believe in this promise and receive the seal of the Holy Spirit of adoption ... all our sins are covered.

That said, if someone says he is saved in that way, yet he does not feel convicted when he sins, then I would assume he is mistaken and does not have the Holy Spirit at all, ergo is not saved.

I think the reason God gave us a new spirit (holy) but left us with soul and body that struggle against sin is this:

When we sin (in soul and body) we are reminded that we need God. That reminder helps us to maintain, and even strengthens our faith - which IS essential to salvation.

 

[PeterJens]

Why do you think people get so angry at you Peter. It is not because your not a nice person, You are, and you have alot of bible knowledge, Sadly, what good is it, when you continually slander people by saying they have no desire to learn things of God, or desire to live in sin, WHEN NOT ONE PERSON IN THIS ROOM BELIEVES OR TEACHES THIS!!

Double speak. If repentance is no longer repenting of sin, turning away from evil and doing good, confessing sin and asking for forgiveness, then people are no longer preaching repentance.
If sin is already forgiven before you commit it, then sin is no longer a problem.
If love is not the core of the believer but Holy Spirit power, then this is a different gospel.

To then say I am lying is actually to disown the faith and make it into something else. And yes I understand why you hyper-grace followers do this, but it is not christianity as I have walked in and followed most of my life.

Now ofcourse people will say their version is the true interpretation of Christ and Gods will. If they did not believe this they would not be arguing it. Equally I holding my position would not be saying this is my view.

You seem unable to grasp people may not agree with you, but are not the evil hypocrites you make them out to be.
And changing the meaning of sin and language does not change the facts.

The only reason I persist is because this is reality.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Peter ... that quote above is from the Bible ... not an utterance of a follower. They are God's words.

The Lamb was slain before the beginning of the world ... so that whoever would believe on Him would have eternal life. When we believe in this promise and receive the seal of the Holy Spirit of adoption ... all our sins are covered.

This is a false idea based upon how some translations are worded. Many translations have removed this stumbling block. For example:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I "hate" on people?

I do not use the word hate because it is about emnity, rejection, disgust, violence, aggression, bitterness.

I hate the actions of those who commited the holocaust, who took people, their possession and treated them as experiments, as lumps of meat. I know how evil these people were, because I have known the intimate details of the concentration camps and how bad it went. There is probably no more degrading a place than that which these people created, but I do not hate them, I hate what they did.

So to connect me with the idea that I hate, is used by a person who has not been touched by a reason to hate, and the unbelievable evil that satan brings.

To also connect hate with a brother in the Lord is a terrible thing to accuse someone of, especially someone who loves the Lord and has followed Him faithfully for many years. So I wonder at the heart from which this fruit has come.

I wish things were not as they are, that light and darkness did not divide this world, that judgements do not need to come, that the cross did not have to as brutal as it was, but this is what sin does to us and how far we are lost before the King. It is why I bow the knee to the love of Christ and His cross. Oh what a King, the King of Glory

But thanks be to God, who always leads us as captives in Christ’s triumphal procession and uses us to spread the aroma of the knowledge of him everywhere.
2 Cor 2:14

When someone says one thing,

And you reply by saying they say something which is not even remotely close to what they originally said.

You are slandering them. Slander comes from pride, From this comes hate.

Every time you say so and so is saying this, when they have never said it, Have never even considered it, And would preach against it his or herself. You slander them.

If you continue to do it, even after NUMEROUS people have tried in love to show you what you are doing. You have turned slander into hate.

And yes, God considers that sin just as evil and damning as what Hitler did to the Jews.

As I said, You do not have a proper perspective on sin.. if you did, you would realise this, and not so easily be entangled in it. but you would be horrified by what you are doing, at the very least, You would concentrate so hard on what someone else is saying, you would be afraid to misread them and even have the possibility of slandering them. Because you would realism how horrific that sin is to a Holy and Righteous God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Double speak. If repentance is no longer repenting of sin, turning away from evil and doing good, confessing sin and asking for forgiveness, then people are no longer preaching repentance.
If sin is already forgiven before you commit it, then sin is no longer a problem.
If love is not the core of the believer but Holy Spirit power, then this is a different gospel.

1. Thats your opinion, which you are aloud to have, and no one would judge you for that, But you do not leave it there, You push your opinion on others, And claim they are liars in what they themselves believe, this is when it stops being an opinion, and starts being slander.
2. your opiion in these matters does not make you right
3. That does not mean that the person you are discussing things with believes or is saying whayt you THINK they are saying.
4. All of these points have been thoroughly refuted time and time again, And shown that no one believes those things, that for you to keep bringing them up is just mind boggling.

To then say I am lying is actually to disown the faith and make it into something else. And yes I understand why you hyper-grace followers do this, but it is not christianity as I have walked in and followed most of my life.

See, You just slandered me again, I am not a hypergrace believer, Your problem is you have us all bottled up into one little thing, Maybe it makes it easier for you> excuses you from doing the HARD WORK of listening to people so you can understand what they believe?

I do not know. But you just slandered the body of Christ.

Now ofcourse people will say their version is the true interpretation of Christ and Gods will. If they did not believe this they would not be arguing it. Equally I holding my position would not be saying this is my view.

Then why do you slander people. just because your opinion? If you preached obedience, and following Gods commands in love, and appreciation for all God did for you. And taught that those whom God has perfected in Grace, he is in the process of sanctifying them.

Then I could not teach you are a legalist. Because you teach obedience, righteousness, and sanctification all comes from God. and not self.

of course you do teach obedience, Following Gods commands in love, and being sanctified, However, you deny God has the power to do it, You teach man can resist God and fall away. So I must show you how you are like me in many ways (teach obedience in love and mercy) but apposed to me in a major way (it is not God who does it, but ourselves) which makes it a different gospel

we can agree to disagree, and move on, Or you can continue to slander people. and continue to be called out for your lies by people in the room.

You seem unable to grasp people may not agree with you, but are not the evil hypocrites you make them out to be.

People disagree with me all the time, But they do not slander me, and say I believe in things I do not. Why do you think we still get along, Unlike you and I.

It is not the disagreement which causes these things it is slander and a refusal to listen to what the other says.

If you want to teach works, Fine, Do it, But do not slander me as teaching licentiousness or hyper grace easy believism, when it is not true!

And changing the meaning of sin and language does not change the facts.

The only reason I persist is because this is reality.

Then why do you change the meaning of sin and reality? Tell me peter. why?

Because it is not me, It is you..

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

1 point peter. No such thing as accidents, Mistakes or oopsies. You break one, you are guilty of the whole set..

when will you acknowledge this in practice and not just words?

 

[PeterJens]

The Lamb was slain before the beginning of the world

This is one interpretation of this sentence. Because it is an interpretation which may not be true, but if true changes theology and our whole structure of salvation, it needs to be confirmed elsewhere and makes sense.

The lamb was slain

Slain means died. Now death in our meaning is death of the physical body, not the spiritual. Death of the soul as Jesus described is in the lake of fire. There is no coming back from this second death or destruction. What complicates this idea though is people will say this destruction is not destruction but punishment eternally.

So either the lamb was created human and died or was condemned to hell for eternal punishment?
A third possibility is the lamb had an eternal body that was killed, but again an eternal body cannot be killed else it is not eternal. So the meaning of the lamb being slain outside the earth does not work.

John in revelation is using language in the perspective of after the cross. Jesus is the lamb who was slain after the cross but the lamb before the cross. So when John is talking about the slain lamb, he means Jesus who has authority because of the cross to do something.

Now interpretations and language matter, so to hold your interpretation you have to show consistent meaning of the phrase in the way you intend or it is simply a wrong interpretation.

Unfortunately large parts of scripture can be changed like this if you want, and many groups have done this.

 

[Grace777x70]

Brethren we are wasting our time. We have told these ones the same thing now more then 200x times. At some point we have to say either they are deceived or they are being dis-honest. Either way it's a waste of time going over the same truths with them. Let's just give the scriptures out and let the Holy Spirit reveal the gospel of the grace of Christ to those that are open to Him.

 

[roaringkitten]

Double speak. If repentance is no longer repenting of sin, turning away from evil and doing good, confessing sin and asking for forgiveness, then people are no longer preaching repentance.
If sin is already forgiven before you commit it, then sin is no longer a problem.
If love is not the core of the believer but Holy Spirit power, then this is a different gospel.

To then say I am lying is actually to disown the faith and make it into something else. And yes I understand why you hyper-grace followers do this, but it is not christianity as I have walked in and followed most of my life.

Now ofcourse people will say their version is the true interpretation of Christ and Gods will. If they did not believe this they would not be arguing it. Equally I holding my position would not be saying this is my view.

You seem unable to grasp people may not agree with you, but are not the evil hypocrites you make them out to be.
And changing the meaning of sin and language does not change the facts.

The only reason I persist is because this is reality.

Did Jesus deal with all your sins on the cross? What did the blood of Jesus accomplish?

 

[gb9]

Brethren we are wasting our time. We have told these ones the same thing now more then 200x times. At some point we have to say either they are deceived or they are being dis-honest. Either way it's a waste of time going over the same truths with them. Let's just give the scriptures out and let the Holy Spirit reveal the gospel of the grace of Christ to those that are open to Him.

this is the best way. I think many of us are tired of having the same argument with the same people about the same things.

 

[thepsalmist]

This is one interpretation of this sentence. Because it is an interpretation which may not be true, but if true changes theology and our whole structure of salvation, it needs to be confirmed elsewhere and makes sense.

The lamb was slain

Slain means died. Now death in our meaning is death of the physical body, not the spiritual. Death of the soul as Jesus described is in the lake of fire. There is no coming back from this second death or destruction. What complicates this idea though is people will say this destruction is not destruction but punishment eternally.

So either the lamb was created human and died or was condemned to hell for eternal punishment?
A third possibility is the lamb had an eternal body that was killed, but again an eternal body cannot be killed else it is not eternal. So the meaning of the lamb being slain outside the earth does not work.

John in revelation is using language in the perspective of after the cross. Jesus is the lamb who was slain after the cross but the lamb before the cross. So when John is talking about the slain lamb, he means Jesus who has authority because of the cross to do something.

Now interpretations and language matter, so to hold your interpretation you have to show consistent meaning of the phrase in the way you intend or it is simply a wrong interpretation.

Unfortunately large parts of scripture can be changed like this if you want, and many groups have done this.

To me ... personally, Peter ... that is really going out of one's way to stay blind ...

God blesses all that are His in His good time ...

 

[Grace777x70]

Jesus took all sin away with His death and blood. Sin is not the issue anymore...unbelief in Jesus' finished work is the issue now in the New Covenant. Those that deny what the blood of Jesus accomplished are in fact denying the Lord and Master.

John 1:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus took all sin away with His death and blood. Sin is not the issue anymore...unbelief in Jesus' finished work is the issue now in the New Covenant. Those that deny what the blood of Jesus accomplished are in fact denying the Lord and Master.

A contradictory statement for sure. Unbelief is sin, so sin is the issue.

 

[Grace777x70]

To me ... personally, Peter ... that is really going out of one's way to stay blind ...

God blesses all that are His in His good time ...

Human philosophy and man-made traditions will take us captive so we are to see to it that they don't and to cling to Christ alone in His finished work for us.

Colossians 2:8 (NASB)

[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.