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We can be a Christian for 60 years and even pastor a church for 30 years and still be a baby Christian. Physical age has no bearing on maturity in Christ although one would think so if they were growing in Christ and not in church man-made traditions.
Not knowing about the righteousness of God and trying to establish their own is what keeps a person being a baby Christian.
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Here is another sign of being a baby Christian. They are filled with malice and slander , envy..etc.
1 Peter 2:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
Not knowing about the righteousness of God and trying to establish their own is what keeps a person being a baby Christian.
Hebrews 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant.
Here is another sign of being a baby Christian. They are filled with malice and slander , envy..etc.
1 Peter 2:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
Carnal thinking - EG has classified this as self thinking. This is not scriptural, but an odd distortion.
For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.
1 John 2:16
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
Col 3:5
For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
1 Peter 4:3
We are commanded to love ourselves and love our neighbour as much.
Showing respect for yourself is important, as much as God shows us respect and honour. He thought so highly of us, he died so that we might be called His friends.
Our one biggest failing is to not see things objectively. We either think of ourselves better than everyone else or worse. Very rarely we have a right view of ourselves and others. We are encouraged to think others better than ourselves so we do not demean them or bring them down, but give them the honour they deserve.
I find among all these ideas nothing that suggests self centred thought is the problem, rather it is self-indulgence, self interest, self-seeking, selfish ambition that often lead to sin.
In fact without self knowledge, and self understanding, and self control it would not be possible to be a christian or follow Christ. So it is no surprise such ideas cause such confusion.
For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.
1 John 2:16
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
Col 3:5
For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.
1 Peter 4:3
We are commanded to love ourselves and love our neighbour as much.
Showing respect for yourself is important, as much as God shows us respect and honour. He thought so highly of us, he died so that we might be called His friends.
Our one biggest failing is to not see things objectively. We either think of ourselves better than everyone else or worse. Very rarely we have a right view of ourselves and others. We are encouraged to think others better than ourselves so we do not demean them or bring them down, but give them the honour they deserve.
I find among all these ideas nothing that suggests self centred thought is the problem, rather it is self-indulgence, self interest, self-seeking, selfish ambition that often lead to sin.
In fact without self knowledge, and self understanding, and self control it would not be possible to be a christian or follow Christ. So it is no surprise such ideas cause such confusion.
I think that mindset has such a distorted view of the law that it becomes impossible to do or think anything right. The law nowhere says that having a self-centered thought is illegal. The law only deals with externals, i.e, actions.
So what would such a mindset produce? IMO, living in a continual state of condemnation that can only be assuaged by the belief that defines grace as GOD not seeing any of our sins. To contradict this belief brings charges of self-righteousness
So what would such a mindset produce? IMO, living in a continual state of condemnation that can only be assuaged by the belief that defines grace as GOD not seeing any of our sins. To contradict this belief brings charges of self-righteousness
E
This gets old. Do not people study anymore?
Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
1 Corinthians 3:3
for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
1 Corinthians 3:4
For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
Carnal - Sarxis - Flesh, Body, People, Human nature.
Canality is self thinking, Sins of the flesh, It is putting self above others.
Peter. Please. if your going to try to tell someone they are wrong, at least try to study up.. You are so bent on probving thers wrong you continually makes mistakes like this, does this not even get old?
E
Making fun, Calling a spade a spade.. Now matter what you call it, it is just stating facts.
Maybe you need to study the gospel because your not saved yet? If you are. why are you studying the gospel and not studying how to be sanctified, to overcome sin, To do Gods will. To serve others. To see exampes of biblical men who were there before you.
But hey, I understand why you need to study the gospel.
Maybe you need to study the gospel because your not saved yet? If you are. why are you studying the gospel and not studying how to be sanctified, to overcome sin, To do Gods will. To serve others. To see exampes of biblical men who were there before you.
But hey, I understand why you need to study the gospel.
The Corinthian church was messed up. They were living carnally, worldly, as lost men. Paul calls them out time and time again for their wrong. Yet, Paul reminds them, "ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." Why does Paul remind them of who they are in Christ...so they will start living as such.
Works have never maintained salvation. Language is a problem.
Salvation is communion with the Lord, it is the Kingdom of Heaven, it is what being a christian is, it is our breadth, our very being, our prayer in the morning, our last thought at night, our praise for the good gifts he gives us and for the blessings we get wherever we turn.
Because of this communion, we do good works as we see need. And this communion is founded on faith and love.
What I find odd is to deny this reality, because it is what the apostles wrote in the new testament and the prophets lived in the old.
Salvation is communion with the Lord, it is the Kingdom of Heaven, it is what being a christian is, it is our breadth, our very being, our prayer in the morning, our last thought at night, our praise for the good gifts he gives us and for the blessings we get wherever we turn.
Because of this communion, we do good works as we see need. And this communion is founded on faith and love.
What I find odd is to deny this reality, because it is what the apostles wrote in the new testament and the prophets lived in the old.
T
EG ... so funny- your analogy of the car! 
We share the same Spirit and body of Christ ...
A rare thing happened to me yesterday. Usually I am content with what I have ... but once in a while desire grabs me.
Out of the blue I was compelled to look on a buy-sell site for motorcycles. I was in the middle of something and it was like I was grabbed by the neck and drawn to the site out of no where.
Lo and behold, there was another rare thing ... the bike I always wanted! Just a little beyond my financial reach. I wanted it so bad it hurt .... I was groaning ... but then, almost as soon as I had begun groaning the Holy Spirit reminded me that I should not be like that - rather I should be content with what I have... And the struggle began. I want it - but I don't want to be like this ... it feels like covetry ... at the least it's materialistic and doesn't matter- Be content! I wrestled with myself for a few minutes... then just conceded that God knew best- Drop it, I said to myself firmly - God's ways take precedence!
I had given myself over to God's wisdom even though it hurt. I surrendered.
A few moments after surrendering to Him I was drawn to another site that reviewed the bike in question. And kind of questioned why I was torturing myself. But as I watched the reviews I saw that the bike was not as good as it looked ... I realized that my bike was better in many ways ... and felt much better! I didn't want it anymore!
I wonder- was it God that drew me to that experience or maybe he just allowed the devil to draw me to it? I don't know and it doesn't really matter because in all things God works for the good of those who love Him according to His purpose. So either way ... same difference. But surely it was God's Holy Spirit that convicted me- reminding me of God's ways ... His power that helped me to submit to His ways ... and God who reassured me after I had followed His ways ...
He loves me ... leads me, guides me, teaches me, helps me to grow - through my weaknesses! How could I have experienced such wonderful truths and reminders yesterday if I was perfect and never sinned? I thank God for being in charge of my upbringing. He is author and finisher of my faith!
We share the same Spirit and body of Christ ... A rare thing happened to me yesterday. Usually I am content with what I have ... but once in a while desire grabs me.
Out of the blue I was compelled to look on a buy-sell site for motorcycles. I was in the middle of something and it was like I was grabbed by the neck and drawn to the site out of no where.
Lo and behold, there was another rare thing ... the bike I always wanted! Just a little beyond my financial reach. I wanted it so bad it hurt .... I was groaning ... but then, almost as soon as I had begun groaning the Holy Spirit reminded me that I should not be like that - rather I should be content with what I have... And the struggle began. I want it - but I don't want to be like this ... it feels like covetry ... at the least it's materialistic and doesn't matter- Be content! I wrestled with myself for a few minutes... then just conceded that God knew best- Drop it, I said to myself firmly - God's ways take precedence!
I had given myself over to God's wisdom even though it hurt. I surrendered.
A few moments after surrendering to Him I was drawn to another site that reviewed the bike in question. And kind of questioned why I was torturing myself. But as I watched the reviews I saw that the bike was not as good as it looked ... I realized that my bike was better in many ways ... and felt much better! I didn't want it anymore!
I wonder- was it God that drew me to that experience or maybe he just allowed the devil to draw me to it? I don't know and it doesn't really matter because in all things God works for the good of those who love Him according to His purpose. So either way ... same difference. But surely it was God's Holy Spirit that convicted me- reminding me of God's ways ... His power that helped me to submit to His ways ... and God who reassured me after I had followed His ways ...
He loves me ... leads me, guides me, teaches me, helps me to grow - through my weaknesses! How could I have experienced such wonderful truths and reminders yesterday if I was perfect and never sinned? I thank God for being in charge of my upbringing. He is author and finisher of my faith!
E
EG ... so funny- your analogy of the car! We share the same Spirit and body of Christ ...
A rare thing happened to me yesterday. Usually I am content with what I have ... but once in a while desire grabs me.
Out of the blue I was compelled to look on a buy-sell site for motorcycles. I was in the middle of something and it was like I was grabbed by the neck and drawn to the site out of no where.
Lo and behold, there was another rare thing ... the bike I always wanted! Just a little beyond my financial reach. I wanted it so bad it hurt .... I was groaning ... but then, almost as soon as I had begun groaning the Holy Spirit reminded me that I should not be like that - rather I should be content with what I have... And the struggle began. I want it - but I don't want to be like this ... it feels like covetry ... at the least it's materialistic and doesn't matter- Be content! I wrestled with myself for a few minutes... then just conceded that God knew best- Drop it, I said to myself firmly - God's ways take precedence!
I had given myself over to God's wisdom even though it hurt. I surrendered.
A few moments after surrendering to Him I was drawn to another site that reviewed the bike in question. And kind of questioned why I was torturing myself. But as I watched the reviews I saw that the bike was not as good as it looked ... I realized that my bike was better in many ways ... and felt much better! I didn't want it anymore!
I wonder- was it God that drew me to that experience or maybe he just allowed the devil to draw me to it? I don't know and it doesn't really matter because in all things God works for the good of those who love Him according to His purpose. So either way ... same difference. But surely it was God's Holy Spirit that convicted me- reminding me of God's ways ... His power that helped me to submit to His ways ... and God who reassured me after I had followed His ways ...
He loves me ... leads me, guides me, teaches me, helps me to grow - through my weaknesses! How could I have experienced such wonderful truths and reminders yesterday if I was perfect and never sinned? I thank God for being in charge of my upbringing. He is author and finisher of my faith!
We share the same Spirit and body of Christ ... A rare thing happened to me yesterday. Usually I am content with what I have ... but once in a while desire grabs me.
Out of the blue I was compelled to look on a buy-sell site for motorcycles. I was in the middle of something and it was like I was grabbed by the neck and drawn to the site out of no where.
Lo and behold, there was another rare thing ... the bike I always wanted! Just a little beyond my financial reach. I wanted it so bad it hurt .... I was groaning ... but then, almost as soon as I had begun groaning the Holy Spirit reminded me that I should not be like that - rather I should be content with what I have... And the struggle began. I want it - but I don't want to be like this ... it feels like covetry ... at the least it's materialistic and doesn't matter- Be content! I wrestled with myself for a few minutes... then just conceded that God knew best- Drop it, I said to myself firmly - God's ways take precedence!
I had given myself over to God's wisdom even though it hurt. I surrendered.
A few moments after surrendering to Him I was drawn to another site that reviewed the bike in question. And kind of questioned why I was torturing myself. But as I watched the reviews I saw that the bike was not as good as it looked ... I realized that my bike was better in many ways ... and felt much better! I didn't want it anymore!
I wonder- was it God that drew me to that experience or maybe he just allowed the devil to draw me to it? I don't know and it doesn't really matter because in all things God works for the good of those who love Him according to His purpose. So either way ... same difference. But surely it was God's Holy Spirit that convicted me- reminding me of God's ways ... His power that helped me to submit to His ways ... and God who reassured me after I had followed His ways ...
He loves me ... leads me, guides me, teaches me, helps me to grow - through my weaknesses! How could I have experienced such wonderful truths and reminders yesterday if I was perfect and never sinned? I thank God for being in charge of my upbringing. He is author and finisher of my faith!
God tested you, Then when you passed, He gave you the reason he did not want you to have it.
Imagine if we failed to resist. Then God showed us,, How we took money he could use to ser e others, and put it on something which was not as good as what you had.
Sadly, for some of us, It takes failing a few times to realise it is so much easier and cheaper to trust God!!
R
Actually, the Bible says none of that would be possible without the blood:
"...without shedding of blood is no remission." Heb 9:22
In complete agreement with you there.
What the Bible calls salvation in regards to works: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5
Walking in salvation, is working out our own salvation, this is not working FOR our salvation!
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philip 2:12
The Bible says nothing of the sort. The Bible does say this about Jesus beginning a good work in us: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" Philippians 1:6
Regarding your accusation, read the following chapter to understand our position on sin(Rom 6:1-13):
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Walking in righteousness is NOT the core of the gospel, nor is it part of it. The gospel is(1 Cor 15:1-4):
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
"...without shedding of blood is no remission." Heb 9:22
In complete agreement with you there.
What the Bible calls salvation in regards to works: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" Titus 3:5
Walking in salvation, is working out our own salvation, this is not working FOR our salvation!
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Philip 2:12
The Bible says nothing of the sort. The Bible does say this about Jesus beginning a good work in us: "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ" Philippians 1:6
Regarding your accusation, read the following chapter to understand our position on sin(Rom 6:1-13):
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Walking in righteousness is NOT the core of the gospel, nor is it part of it. The gospel is(1 Cor 15:1-4):
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
EG the problem with partial thoughts is that is just what they are.
Self centred thinking you are talking about is doing things without considering the consequences.
But again this is worldly language and thinking and not biblical. It is just looking at an action and how it effects others and then drawing morality from this.
Jesus calls us to love people, to start from them and us and see how we can help. The focus is on seeing reality, who we are and who they are, and what would be best.
Your language comes from the christian church which used terms like put Jesus on the throne of your life.
Stop being self centred, be Jesus centred. But it is just not language of life or biblical.
Biblical language is "Love your neighbour as you love yourself."
If you have a parcel keep it safe and help them is they have a need. If you meet people, try to find what there take on life is, and encourage good things. But if you do not love yourself, you will not love your neighbour. Many people miss this, and do not realise they actually hate themselves, what they stand for and who they are. Not surprisingly it is not going to be a good witness of love, life and victory if everything you have you wish you did not have.
Self centred thinking you are talking about is doing things without considering the consequences.
But again this is worldly language and thinking and not biblical. It is just looking at an action and how it effects others and then drawing morality from this.
Jesus calls us to love people, to start from them and us and see how we can help. The focus is on seeing reality, who we are and who they are, and what would be best.
Your language comes from the christian church which used terms like put Jesus on the throne of your life.
Stop being self centred, be Jesus centred. But it is just not language of life or biblical.
Biblical language is "Love your neighbour as you love yourself."
If you have a parcel keep it safe and help them is they have a need. If you meet people, try to find what there take on life is, and encourage good things. But if you do not love yourself, you will not love your neighbour. Many people miss this, and do not realise they actually hate themselves, what they stand for and who they are. Not surprisingly it is not going to be a good witness of love, life and victory if everything you have you wish you did not have.