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E
Ecclesiastes 9:18
Wisdom is better than weapons of war; But one sinner destroys much good.”
I think we can rightly say, One sin can destroy so much good. For one sin can destroy a mans reputation as being a spokesman from God. One sin can destroy a family, A relationship. One sin can cause go be condemned by the law.
think about it, One sin caused the fall of mankind.
Wisdom is better than weapons of war; But one sinner destroys much good.”
I think we can rightly say, One sin can destroy so much good. For one sin can destroy a mans reputation as being a spokesman from God. One sin can destroy a family, A relationship. One sin can cause go be condemned by the law.
think about it, One sin caused the fall of mankind.
L
I would say you should look into what roaringkitten is talking about because it is a wonderful truth. We love Him because He first loved us. The more we find out how much Jesus has done for us in saving us and making us righteous and dealing with us by grace, we cannot help but seek to serve Him with our lives here and here after. And each day we are given more understanding of how much He loves us. The Bible says we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
R
Good point! A really good passage of Scripture(Rom 5):
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
L
Sobering words EG. They are so true. And Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes after he lost his wisdom for a time and allowed the gods of his foreign wives to come in. How sad and regretful he must have been after he came out of his stupor and began writing about all the hopelessness he felt when he walked in sin. Sin blinds. As Christians we know that sin destroys and we know we need to be kept by His Spirit and our minds need to be daily renewed in the truths we have been taught.
We know grace is how God deals with us. God loves us and once a believer starts to understand what grace means, it frees him not to sin. We are not under law but under grace. Sin has no more power over us. Grace teaches us how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts., how to live soberly righteously and Godly in this present age.
Having a proper understanding of grace will teach us how to do the will of God joyfully. Jesus promised His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Amen and it is!! We can count on Him to do as He promised and to believe that His way is the best way to walk. We are not missing anything, we gain all we need because we are IN Christ. The joy of the Lord is our strength. It all ties together and works for our good. Just like the Bible says.
Taken care of at the cross. New topic: Jesus...? 
Sin is a being; sins are its fruit, or particulars. The essence of sin in relationship to me, as human is my claim to my right to myself. It goes deeper down than all the sins that ever were committed. Sin can't be forgiven because it is not an act; you can only be forgiven for the sins you commit, not for heredity (Original sins domain over us). "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9); Sin, on the other hand, had to be cleansed by the miracle of God's grace.
It does not awaken antipathy; a deep-seated feeling of dislike, in a man when you tell him God will forgive him his sins because of what Jesus did on the Cross, but it does awaken antipathy when you tell him he has to give up his right to himself. Nothing is so much resented as the idea that I am not to be my own Master. "If anyone desires to come after Me," Jesus says, "Let him deny himself." (Matthew 16:24); that is, deny his right to himself, not merely give up external sins -- those are execrations; a feeling or expression of great loathing for. The point is, am I prepared deliberately to give up my right to myself to Jesus Christ? Prepared to say, "Yes, take complete control?" If I am, Jesus Christ has gained a disciple.
It does not awaken antipathy; a deep-seated feeling of dislike, in a man when you tell him God will forgive him his sins because of what Jesus did on the Cross, but it does awaken antipathy when you tell him he has to give up his right to himself. Nothing is so much resented as the idea that I am not to be my own Master. "If anyone desires to come after Me," Jesus says, "Let him deny himself." (Matthew 16:24); that is, deny his right to himself, not merely give up external sins -- those are execrations; a feeling or expression of great loathing for. The point is, am I prepared deliberately to give up my right to myself to Jesus Christ? Prepared to say, "Yes, take complete control?" If I am, Jesus Christ has gained a disciple.
Okay, I say and have said yes many times,
but in a practical sense,
I don't really know what that means.
My sheep hear my voice.....
Okay, in the sense that Scripture is the Word
or voice of God, and it says whoever believes on
the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved.
So I believe in Jesus.
Now, I know the verses that talk about,
being transformed by renewing your mind,
and presenting your body as a living sacrifice,
things like that, but, what is next, i.e., what does it
mean to 'give up my right to myself and give over
complete control?'
(and I hope this doesn't derail, but I guess if
this is a thread to study the bible , this is the
place to find answers to this.
In fact, not really
understanding the answers to this has probably
been the biggest holdup in my life.....
wanting to know but not wanting to make the
mistake of being deceived into believing I'm trying
to give my life over, but I'm just following my own
will or someone or someTHING elses.) Thanks.
but in a practical sense,
I don't really know what that means.
My sheep hear my voice.....
Okay, in the sense that Scripture is the Word
or voice of God, and it says whoever believes on
the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved.
So I believe in Jesus.
Now, I know the verses that talk about,
being transformed by renewing your mind,
and presenting your body as a living sacrifice,
things like that, but, what is next, i.e., what does it
mean to 'give up my right to myself and give over
complete control?'
(and I hope this doesn't derail, but I guess if
this is a thread to study the bible , this is the
place to find answers to this.
In fact, not really
understanding the answers to this has probably
been the biggest holdup in my life.....
wanting to know but not wanting to make the
mistake of being deceived into believing I'm trying
to give my life over, but I'm just following my own
will or someone or someTHING elses.) Thanks.
Think about this dear reader. One sin caused the fall of mankind. So sin is deadly, destructive, the worst thing in the world.
"My view of sin says if I have one thought that is self centered God is so horrified, and offended by that thought that if not for the grace of God he would snap his fingers and send me directly to hell."
Now imagine you see a flash car and think, I would love to have a car like that and enjoy driving it.
This is now a sin worthy of hell for this believer.
Now please show me in the bible where this idea has been born. Please show me the author of such ideas? The only author I know of such a lie is satan himself, and those who condemn themselves on this kind of morality are so wrapped up in self condemnation, love has no chance to enter their life and set them free. Every action they do they feel is full of sin, everyday, everywhere.
So for them for Christ to save them, though they dwell and live in sin continually, he forgives them, else salvation is impossible, because righteousness is an impossible dream.
And for them I must be a hypocrite to not admit this is Gods standard of sin, and am deluding myself.
This man is in an insane prison of his own making, and not surprisingly the real sins if present are irrelevant, because righteousness in his eyes is just a pipe dream that God will one day give him from when they meet.
I do not know to laugh or cry. Unfortunately this man has already entered a kind of hell, tormented by his own standards and pushing himself closer to total failure and collapse. There is no point discussing anything with him because as has been revealed over months, I am the hypocrite and he is the sinner saved be grace walking in forgiveness and continual failure.
If sin was as he described I would agree with him, but it is not, so he preaches an extreme version of righteousness and failure which is real perfectionism beyond the rational.
Dear reader,
It is sad for me that you consider a sensible standard of what sin is or is not is wrong. There are many well meaning people who have a perfectionist personality disorder. Nothing is ever good enough. But this is an illness, it is not healthy or right.
If you have met people who are wrecked with sin in their life, broken relationships, chaos, theft, disorder, emptiness, you will realise the wonder of walking in love, honesty, compassion, openness, meaning what you say, letting your heart speak, is literal life, as Jesus described, eternal water that never runs out.
But people who have been in churches for 20+ years get more and more jaded and grow cold inside, and turn into some kind of distorted perfectionism and condemnation of others. You know when this is happening because sin is not longer the real sins and betrayal, but some odd doctrines, or ways of seeing things that have been hidden, which you have to be cleansed from wrong thinking etc. rather than let your yes be yes and your no be no. Walk in love, purity and honesty, show compassion, patience, kindness, goodness, self control. Against such there is no law.
It does not get simpler than that, yet I am the hypocrite sinner, who is denying everything. God help these poor lost self condemning perfectionists, they strain at a knat and swallow a camel.
It is sad for me that you consider a sensible standard of what sin is or is not is wrong. There are many well meaning people who have a perfectionist personality disorder. Nothing is ever good enough. But this is an illness, it is not healthy or right.
If you have met people who are wrecked with sin in their life, broken relationships, chaos, theft, disorder, emptiness, you will realise the wonder of walking in love, honesty, compassion, openness, meaning what you say, letting your heart speak, is literal life, as Jesus described, eternal water that never runs out.
But people who have been in churches for 20+ years get more and more jaded and grow cold inside, and turn into some kind of distorted perfectionism and condemnation of others. You know when this is happening because sin is not longer the real sins and betrayal, but some odd doctrines, or ways of seeing things that have been hidden, which you have to be cleansed from wrong thinking etc. rather than let your yes be yes and your no be no. Walk in love, purity and honesty, show compassion, patience, kindness, goodness, self control. Against such there is no law.
It does not get simpler than that, yet I am the hypocrite sinner, who is denying everything. God help these poor lost self condemning perfectionists, they strain at a knat and swallow a camel.
This unfortunately this is just being rude.
It appears that too many think random thoughts that occur in their heads are actually who they are, rather than just random thoughts. You cannot choose the ideas that come to you, but you can choose what you do with them.
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Gal 6:7
So how you choose to dwell and think is what matters.
The simple point I am making is people are not doomed to condemnation because a thought pops into their heads, they are condemned because of their intention and desires and actions.
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
Gen 6:5
Jerusalem, wash the evil from your heart and be saved. How long will you harbor wicked thoughts?
Jer 4:14
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?
Matt 9:4
So why do you reader entertain evil thoughts about me?
Maybe I should expect nothing else as you confess the thoughts of your heart are sinful and worthy of hell even though you claim to be children of Heaven.
If your mind is not a place where Jesus rules, where love has made its home, how can you claim to have met Jesus?
Humble yourselves, repent and ask the Lord to show you His way.
It appears that too many think random thoughts that occur in their heads are actually who they are, rather than just random thoughts. You cannot choose the ideas that come to you, but you can choose what you do with them.
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
Gal 6:7
So how you choose to dwell and think is what matters.
The simple point I am making is people are not doomed to condemnation because a thought pops into their heads, they are condemned because of their intention and desires and actions.
The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time.
Gen 6:5
Jerusalem, wash the evil from your heart and be saved. How long will you harbor wicked thoughts?
Jer 4:14
Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, “Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?
Matt 9:4
So why do you reader entertain evil thoughts about me?
Maybe I should expect nothing else as you confess the thoughts of your heart are sinful and worthy of hell even though you claim to be children of Heaven.
If your mind is not a place where Jesus rules, where love has made its home, how can you claim to have met Jesus?
Humble yourselves, repent and ask the Lord to show you His way.
E
See people. Here is where Peter does not see where he is watering down Gods law.
Gods law says to love the lord you god with all your heart mind and soul. One of the ways we break this law is to put self above others.
Peter tries to use that if I see a car and desire to have it, that that is sin, Well lets get this straight, that having a desire is not sin.
Now, If you LUST after that car. and it takes your mind off doing Gods will to the point it becomes coveting, then it is sin, And you have broken the first commandment, Because you did not love God enough to know he has supplied all your needs, nore did you trust him, to the pont you lusted after something else.
and you have broken anther command, you shall not covet.
So in this one lustful thought, You have broken two commands.
What does James say about this?
James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
James said if we break the least of commands, Just one sin, We are guilty of the whole law. Here we have nbroken two commands, Is this not worthy of Condemnation?
Want proof. Moses said, whoever does not confirm and obey ALL of those commands are under a curse. Here, let me let paul explain.
for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[SUP][e][/SUP]
Moses did not leave ground for just certain sins, He said ever sin is damnable and puts all men under a curse. This curse is death (as wintessed by the term hang on a tree)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[SUP][g][/SUP] [SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[SUP][h][/SUP]), [SUP]14 [/SUP]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
So you see, Peter here needs to stop watering down the law. And see how even his smallest seemingly insignificant sin would place him under a curse if not for grace
John said a child of God can not live in sin Your argument is with him
Your the one in prison dude, You have watered down the law so much to think you are righteous, The schooll has lost its ability to be a schoolmaster to you. To lead you to christ.
Thus you are a slave to sin.
lol. Thanks, I needed this laugh,, Hell? that was my life before Christ.
EG argument is revealing.
He admits there is no problem looking at a car. Well that is good. We are in agreement.
We also agree coveting a car that is not yours is also a sin.
Now this where I am lost. I have said simply looking at a car is not sinful, it is what you dwell on that matters and that is your choice. Now EG extends his argument to say I am saying coveting is ok, which I am not saying.
Now he feels he has established me a sinner, so now I am a hypocrite etc.
Let us go back to his original statement.
"My view of sin says if I have one thought that is self centered God is so horrified, and offended by that thought that if not for the grace of God he would snap his fingers and send me directly to hell."
So the sin he is talking about is being self centered. I am therefore at a loss where his actual position is, because he failed to actually address what he regarded as real sin and what he did not.
Maybe this is just a mirage of failure, and he will invent any reason for failure and just leave it at that.
But such a serious issue of sin and redemption you would have thought a believer who condemns others to hell would be better at showing his true position. But he is so full of pride that he succeeds all the time, when he actually misses the point, there is nothing left but to shrug and say, what?
He admits there is no problem looking at a car. Well that is good. We are in agreement.
We also agree coveting a car that is not yours is also a sin.
Now this where I am lost. I have said simply looking at a car is not sinful, it is what you dwell on that matters and that is your choice. Now EG extends his argument to say I am saying coveting is ok, which I am not saying.
Now he feels he has established me a sinner, so now I am a hypocrite etc.
Let us go back to his original statement.
"My view of sin says if I have one thought that is self centered God is so horrified, and offended by that thought that if not for the grace of God he would snap his fingers and send me directly to hell."
So the sin he is talking about is being self centered. I am therefore at a loss where his actual position is, because he failed to actually address what he regarded as real sin and what he did not.
Maybe this is just a mirage of failure, and he will invent any reason for failure and just leave it at that.
But such a serious issue of sin and redemption you would have thought a believer who condemns others to hell would be better at showing his true position. But he is so full of pride that he succeeds all the time, when he actually misses the point, there is nothing left but to shrug and say, what?
roaringkitten - sin and righteousness are actually everything about salvation.
Jesus went to the cross because of sin, and gives us the walk of righteousness and victory.
What some call salvation by works is actually walking in salvation. Loosing your salvation is based on failing to walk in your salvation after first beginning. It unfortunately comes from the same tree. This tree is believing OSAS, says in effect once you come to faith and are born again, you can never lose being in the Kingdom, no matter how you behave.
The fruit of such teaching is to say sin does not matter. I know these connections so what is sin and what is walking in righteousness are the core of the gospel and not something minor, it is how we know we are saved.
Jesus went to the cross because of sin, and gives us the walk of righteousness and victory.
What some call salvation by works is actually walking in salvation. Loosing your salvation is based on failing to walk in your salvation after first beginning. It unfortunately comes from the same tree. This tree is believing OSAS, says in effect once you come to faith and are born again, you can never lose being in the Kingdom, no matter how you behave.
The fruit of such teaching is to say sin does not matter. I know these connections so what is sin and what is walking in righteousness are the core of the gospel and not something minor, it is how we know we are saved.
E
So I really need to explain what a self centered thought is? Let me help. The bible calls it carnal thinking, it calls it fleshly thinking, it calls it the way of the world.
God said you want to live righteous, Love the lord your God, and your neighbor as yourself. Do this, and you will not sin.
Don't do it, (become self centered at any moment of time) and you have sinned.
now what does God think of that sin, which so many people just ignore, or blow off?
Jame answered that, Break the least, Guilty of all.
It is not rocket science.
The serious issue is people who go around blowing off any sin as insignificant, When God says the penalty of sin (ALL SIN) is death... But the gift of God is eternal life ONLY through Christ.
God said you want to live righteous, Love the lord your God, and your neighbor as yourself. Do this, and you will not sin.
Don't do it, (become self centered at any moment of time) and you have sinned.
now what does God think of that sin, which so many people just ignore, or blow off?
Jame answered that, Break the least, Guilty of all.
It is not rocket science.
The serious issue is people who go around blowing off any sin as insignificant, When God says the penalty of sin (ALL SIN) is death... But the gift of God is eternal life ONLY through Christ.