Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

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Feb 24, 2015
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Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.
Heb 12:7-8
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.
Heb 12:14-16
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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what you need to understand, is that this forum, like all others, has what is called TOS...terms of service

these include speaking about others between members

therefore, I will ask you nicely again to kindly stop the chatter about another member

the TOS are for the good of the entire community

I would like to remind you that you are entitled to your opinion regarding anyone here; however, the TOS are for EVERYONE

if you take this personal as you did the last time, that is your perception

kindly respect the op

thank you
This is silly. You yourself have talked about peter, and others are mentioning his name, like G77 and JGIG, so you are just showing that it's only when I mention him that you have a problem. If you think I am doing something against the rules of this website by asking for patience and love and forgiveness when dealing with peter, then you can put in a complaint about me and I am sure they will deal with me and everyone else in here who has mentioned peter. I won't be cowed into stopping with reminders of where we all once were. This isn't an argument for who is right or wrong - it is an argument for more love and more patience even despite how he has drained anyone of strength with his misplaced zeal.

And you knew when you started a thread with "hyper stuff" in the title, that the same cast of characters would come in who have followed all of this. If there is one thing you are it is intelligent. So put in a complaint about us who have talked about peter and how we might bless him even though he thinks we aren't his brothers, for the last 8 months. And if we've done something wrong, the mods will speak with us.
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
This is silly. You yourself have talked about peter, and others are mentioning his name, like G77 and JGIG, so you are just showing that it's only when I mention him that you have a problem. If you think I am doing something against the rules of this website by asking for patience and love and forgiveness when dealing with peter, then you can put in a complaint about me and I am sure they will deal with me and everyone else in here who has mentioned peter. I won't be cowed into stopping with reminders of where we all once were. This isn't an argument for who is right or wrong - it is an argument for more love and more patience even despite how he has drained anyone of strength with his misplaced zeal.

And you knew when you started a thread with "hyper stuff" in the title, that the same cast of characters would come in who have followed all of this. If there is one thing you are it is intelligent. So put in a complaint about us who have talked about peter and how we might bless him even though he thinks we aren't his brothers, for the last 8 months. And if we've done something wrong, the mods will speak with us.
you have some issues it seems

why don't you pm people instead of AGAIN derailing the thread
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praisethe fruit of lips that openly profess his name. And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
Heb 13:15-16
 
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popeye

Guest
relating is good! relating to the topic might be better...my 'teacher' side is coming out I'm afraid...

when I start yelling "Now hear this"...that's when y'all will know you are really gonna catch it :p




aww shucks...that's just a little somethin' I cooked up between bicep curls
HUH?

I had you figured as a straight haired girl.
 
P

popeye

Guest
Mercy is God withholding the punishment we deserve

God blesses us by having substituted His own Son in our place

We receive grace from God...He is merciful towards us.


For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Ephesians 2:8

In His mercy, God extends grace and through that grace He extends forgiveness

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace Ephesians 1:7

Through His grace, we have reconciliation...with Him and even with each other as His grace is extended through us


19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1: 19-20


Grace is, briefly, God's unmerited favor to us

That means that even though we do not deserve...that is we have all fallen far short of the equivalent of sinless...God extends His mercy through His Son taking our place and blesses us with His grace

I mentioned broken cisterns in the op...the words given to Jeremiah by God:

My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water. Jeremiah 2:13


The only way to being accepted by God is the way that He has created. No self-effort or act of sacrifice is acceptable to Him. Even so, He only extends one kind of grace..as explained above.

When a person sins or continues in their sin, they are not exhibiting anything other than sin. They have fallen short of the mark; they may have received God's mercy but they are failing to live in His grace...the grace He offers.

Can we discuss that grace as it is described in scripture without adding to it or detracting from it?



I think after the poem thingy and the revelation that the women have formed a coalition,I will just agree with everything you post.

LOL
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
It seems that the apostles put great emphasis on the grace of God in Christ and His completed work for all of us.

Whenever we heard the word of His grace towards us in Christ's finished work - it enables us to walk in His life that is in us in Christ. We "experience grace" when we hear of Jesus and what He has already done for us because of His great love for us.

It looks like it is only grace ( God's unmerited favor towards us also His and ability in us ) is what is needed to build us up and to give us the inheritance that is ours in the Lord. Here is Paul speaking.

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

Here Peter says that we are to fix our hope "completely" on the grace that is being brought to us as we get a revelation of Jesus Christ. The revelation of Jesus Christ brings with it - the grace to live and be who we are in Him now - because we are joined as one in the spirit.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


The lifting up and unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ brings about this grace that we need to live.

It seems our loving Father will be unveiling this to us for all eternity. He will be unveiling the surpassing riches of His grace towards us in Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is unfathomable in His majesty and His work for us.

Ephesians 2:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.



Does knowing of our Father's great love and grace toward us really want to make us go out and sin all you want because we teach the greatness of God's grace in Christ towards us? I say NO. It makes me run to Him and fills my heart with love.
just so

we have tried very hard to explain that and no one more than you have...and with greater patience than I have certainly



but I am seeing something more in that verse from John 1

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14


I really like this verse from Peter that you included:

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


my last post, I mentioned John 1:14

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

that has to be God's grace I'm thinking

Jesus came full of the grace of God

we know the scripture says that Jesus came to show us the Father

so, IN Him, we have the living Word...the living grace...all we could need to demonstrate all that is the grace of God towards us who believe

how do you and others see that?

 
Feb 24, 2015
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how we might bless him even though he thinks we aren't his brothers
Interesting point. In most groups the us and them is clearly defined. Believe x and you are ok,
believe y and you are not. One particular character said I was spiritually unaware but harmless.

Another called me to repent continually, and no matter what I said, I was probably not saved.
I am called a pharisee, a legalist, trampling on the gospel, an adulterer of spirituality etc.

You might come to realise it is not I who say who is or is not part of the Kingdom. This level of
antagonism over basic theology and walking with Christ does not bode well, especially if I am told
saying what the basic ideas are is lying and sin, this is a different morality or love for Christ than
I have had most of my life.

It is interesting how many nail their colours to this mast. But then in a culture of compromise
and lack of morality or rules, it is not surprising peoples faith takes this turn.

But I am enjoying this exchanges because each day the Lord blesses me from His glorious riches.
It makes me look deeper into His word and see the vastness of ideas and encouragements to walk
in love and the Spirit there are there. So thank you all for your encouragement.

The Lord disciplines me through your hand, and as any child knows, by taking the lessons to heart
they learn how to fight the harder battles of the future, hallelujah.
 
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popeye

Guest
actually yes it is

and so am I

but now you know I can drop you

:p
Well,I bench press 405

(not gonna say what kinda 405,but the word starts in ounc)
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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The problem with the above post is its intension is not to address the points I make, but just
to attack me, personally, and say I am just inventing ideas.

Now I understand to people with a very narrow way of approaching complex subjects where they
put things in defined boxes and that is where they stay. If you connect the points in ways that
are new and challenging, the people who want to hold onto their framework will not address the
points because then they would have to change but just go for the individual.

What shows these constructs or points are valid is because those from the same school of thought
agree with what I am saying. So it goes deeper than grace777 is trying to claim, but then this is
always his tactic.

Equally the HG group come from a similar school of thought and emotional connections so naturally
agree with the criticism.

"being satanic, to liars, to lovers of sin, demonic, evil workers, heretics..etc. "

This list makes me laugh.
"Liars" - people said I was lying, if I was not they are the liar.
"being satanic" - I do not think anyone is satanic here or I have said they are, I just wonder at the
spirit behind the statements and certainty about things clearly from the Lord.
"demonic" - As above
"evil workers" - Slagging off those who stand for righteousness and purity are evil, is doing the work
of the enemy.
"heretics" - Saying future sin is forgiven is a heresy in my view, and people who teach this are heretics.
"lovers of sin" - I do not recall ever saying this. What I did say is people confessed they sinned
daily, hourly and could not conquer what they called sin and lived with it, like it was part of the walk with
Christ rather than a contradiction. So I would like to see how this became lovers of sin.

So this is an attempt at slander, but I expect nothing less from Grace777.

But praise the Lord, for His name is the Highest in Heaven, the Lamb upon the throne to whom all
glory and honour is due.

So this post has all the hallmarks of lies, slander, heresy and spiritual superiority.
But then I suppose if you bring a belief system into the light and show it for what it is, the
biggest proponents are not going to thank you, rather they will hate you and try and discredit
everything you say. No changer there then.
This is a very bad post peter.
You have not even tried to work toward peace in it.
And right on the heels of such a beautiful post.
If you keep insisting that everyone must have the same exact understanding as you do, you are making a grave mistake because just a short while ago, you argued that inward anger is not murder. So understand that you do not have perfect knowledge.

Stop trying to insist all must think the exact same way you do or that they are heretics. It doesn't matter if someone did this to you. Forgive them and make sure that YOU don't respond in kind.

In your last paragraph cursing came from your lips against ones our Lord DIED for. That's unacceptable even if you DO think they are not perfect in understanding yet. It's not acceptable when they do it and it's not acceptable when you do it.

Do you see this?
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
from JGIG's post # 447

So what’s the problem?

The problem, apparently, is we’re not preaching enough law. We’re antinomians with insufficient regard for the moral law of the Old Testament. In the Charisma article, the word “grace” appears nine times but the word “law” appears thirty times. This indicates a strong emphasis on the law.

The author writes, “The Law doesn’t save us, but it sanctifies us.” The grace of God gets us into the kingdom but it’s our observance of the Law – with a capital L – which keeps us there, or at least keeps us from upsetting a temperamental God who is intolerant of our sin.

Consequently, we may contrast the two perspectives as follows:




  • Hyper-grace – we are saved by grace and kept by grace
  • Mixed-grace – we are saved by grace but kept by law
I've quoted John 1:14 a couple of times now

Jesus, as John indicates, is full of grace

He is the fullfillment of the law...He is not full of the law

big distinction there!
 
Jun 1, 2016
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When people hold unto teachings that take away all responsibility from the believer,it is going to be trouble.

The truth is there is a responsibility on the believer,because the Holy Spirit is given to those who believe,so there is no excuse why people cannot be like Christ,abstaining from sin,for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,they will have the power to abstain from sin.

But the responsibility falls on the believer for they have a choice whether to be led of the Spirit,or not.

People can confess Christ as Savior,but deny the Spirit,or receive the Spirit,and deny the Spirit later,that is why the Bible says they have a form of godliness,but deny the power thereof,not everyone that calls Jesus Lord is saved,work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,and if you do not continue in God's goodness,you will be cut off.

Paul said we do not void out the law through faith,but we establish the law,and the law is spiritual,good,holy,and just,the moral laws,laws of love.

Everybody has to live up to the law,but they could not do it in the Old Testament,but we can do it in the New Testament.

If you are led of the Spirit you are not under the law,means,you are abstaining from sin,so the law cannot touch you for prosecution.

The truth is anybody that engages in sin is not led of the Spirit,therefore they are under the law,and they do not establish the law,which is strange that they would think otherwise.

If the man Christ Jesus had to do what is right to be right with God,then humans have to do the same,and there is no excuse for they can have the Holy Spirit.

Salvation is a gift of God,by Jesus Christ,but we still have the responsibility to want to represent righteousness,and goodness,for God will not twist people's arms to live for Him.

Not everybody that claims Christ wants to represent righteousness,and goodness,and it is wrong to take away all responsibility from the believer,for it is a trap that the flesh takes advantage.

To me it appears as if people want to believe there is no responsibility on the believer is because they are lazy,do not want to face the fact that they might not make it if there is a responsibility,and believe according to the flesh.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

And that is what they believe that they cannot fall,that it is impossible for them to fall,and that is where the trouble,and hypocrisy start,because the flesh takes advantage,for they do not pay attention to their walk with God,and become relaxed,and with the attitude that they cannot fall,they will engage in sin with no worry about it,because they believe they cannot fall.

To me hypergrace is a fleshy interpretation,for some people like to interpret the scriptures according to the flesh,and they do not understand the Bible what it says about faith,and grace,for there is a condition that goes along with them.

If someone goes to jail for a crime,and they pay their debt to society for that crime,and are free,they do not get to go out and sin for free,but they still have to obey the law.

We are forgiven of our sins,but we still have to obey the law,and have a responsibility to obey the moral laws of God.

If there is a sale buy one get one free,they will take the attitude of getting that second one free,and overlook the buy one first part,and say that is not true,trying to get something for free,when there is a price to be paid to get that second one.

They say faith alone,and grace,and overlook the price to be paid to have those things applied in their life.
amen. God has always been the same, without His commands, Grace cannot save us. even the old covenant was the same, it had forgiveness in it through animal sacrifice, there is grace even in God delivering the jews from captivity, like Jesus delivered His followers from its captivity. we are forgiven through hHis blood, they through animals blood. He did miracles to prove who He was to them, Jesus did miracles to prove who He is.

the issue is to accept only His death and resurrection as the gospel as SO many are bandwagon teachinjg in the world. just grace don't look to the commands of who died for you, just know he died.... its really an insult like those who passed by him as He was dying for them on the cross. in the name of grace rather than Jesus, who cant be separated from His words. Gods commands are life, the crudifixion is the sacrifice. in the old covenenant, it wasn't just how to sacrifice animals for your sin, it was much more, keep my words and you will not be sinning in the first place. Jesus is Just like His Father in every way. in Hos teachings there is grace and Justice like never before in the law.


in Jesus you forgive and justly you will be forgiven. in Him you give mercy, and justly you will receive mercy, in him you give and it will be given to you in greater masure, justly. how ever we treat others, is our measure we can expect. its not as if the old covenant is evil, but men were evil because of the deception in eden. following the lord Jesus, cleanses us from within and takes the motive away, and where there is no motive there is no reason to act. make someone clean on the inside, they will be clean on the outside, clean heart= clean actions. our responsibility went from the blood of goats and bulls, to the blood of Gods only Son. we are responsible for how we receive and honor His death and suffering on our behalf. grace was not free, it cost Him agony and death.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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just so

we have tried very hard to explain that and no one more than you have...and with greater patience than I have certainly



but I am seeing something more in that verse from John 1

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14


I really like this verse from Peter that you included:

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.


my last post, I mentioned John 1:14

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

that has to be God's grace I'm thinking

Jesus came full of the grace of God

we know the scripture says that Jesus came to show us the Father

so, IN Him, we have the living Word...the living grace...all we could need to demonstrate all that is the grace of God towards us who believe

how do you and others see that?

I see it the exact same way. We need to hear more teaching on Jesus and what He has done in order to have this grace that is in Him activated in our lives. All teaching that lifts up the work of Christ will bring grace with it which is really Christ Himself being revealed.

I always ask myself 3 questions about truth or a teaching as it relates to the grace of God being manifested in our lives..

1) Does it make Jesus bigger in your heart when you see His work and majesty?
( Or does it bring fear and insecurity because you are not "doing" enough to stay saved? )

2) Does it make you depend on Jesus and His finished work?
( or does it depend on what "you do" and depend on yourself?)

3) Does it make you fall deeply in love with your Lord, our Father and with all people?
(Or does it make you view others as accursed, hated by God...etc - even though He loves them so much He sent His Son to die for them )

If I can answer these questions in the affirmative - then it is the good news of the grace of Christ.

We can view scriptures through the lens of the Old Covenant and then try to mix in a little of the New Covenant and we end up in mess of "working to maintain" our own righteousness for going to heaven.

When ever we don't factor in the finished work of Christ nor the real purpose for Jesus dying for us - the fact that God loves us dearly and He is not looking for ways to keep people from Him - we will end up in error as we are mixing up the covenants.


 
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LaurenTM

Guest
This is a very bad post peter.
You have not even tried to work toward peace in it.
And right on the heels of such a beautiful post.
If you keep insisting that everyone must have the same exact understanding as you do, you are making a grave mistake because just a short while ago, you argued that inward anger is not murder. So understand that you do not have perfect knowledge.

Stop trying to insist all must think the exact same way you do or that they are heretics. It doesn't matter if someone did this to you. Forgive them and make sure that YOU don't respond in kind.

In your last paragraph cursing came from your lips against ones our Lord DIED for. That's unacceptable even if you DO think they are not perfect in understanding yet. It's not acceptable when they do it and it's not acceptable when you do it.

Do you see this?
this, is no problem at all stunned

it is a third party discussion we need to avoid

addressing someone directly is fine

that is all I ever meant...however, do not expect others to agree with your viewpoint although we certainly do hope for the best and do not curse in return

thanks
 
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popeye

Guest
actually yes it is

and so am I

but now you know I can drop you

:p
I had to laugh at the curve ball.

I thought "drop" meant banned.

I thought the beetle was dancing.

Then it all connected.

(knockout,and beetle one arm pushups)

Man,no wonder the women are conspiring together.

Us guys are dumber than dirt.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.
Heb 12:14-16
2 timothy 2:14-16 "Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly
 
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LaurenTM

Guest
amen. God has always been the same, without His commands, Grace cannot save us. even the old covenant was the same, it had forgiveness in it through animal sacrifice, there is grace even in God delivering the jews from captivity, like Jesus delivered His followers from its captivity. we are forgiven through hHis blood, they through animals blood. He did miracles to prove who He was to them, Jesus did miracles to prove who He is.

the issue is to accept only His death and resurrection as the gospel as SO many are bandwagon teachinjg in the world. just grace don't look to the commands of who died for you, just know he died.... its really an insult like those who passed by him as He was dying for them on the cross. in the name of grace rather than Jesus, who cant be separated from His words. Gods commands are life, the crudifixion is the sacrifice. in the old covenenant, it wasn't just how to sacrifice animals for your sin, it was much more, keep my words and you will not be sinning in the first place. Jesus is Just like His Father in every way. in Hos teachings there is grace and Justice like never before in the law.


in Jesus you forgive and justly you will be forgiven. in Him you give mercy, and justly you will receive mercy, in him you give and it will be given to you in greater masure, justly. how ever we treat others, is our measure we can expect. its not as if the old covenant is evil, but men were evil because of the deception in eden. following the lord Jesus, cleanses us from within and takes the motive away, and where there is no motive there is no reason to act. make someone clean on the inside, they will be clean on the outside, clean heart= clean actions. our responsibility went from the blood of goats and bulls, to the blood of Gods only Son. we are responsible for how we receive and honor His death and suffering on our behalf. grace was not free, it cost Him agony and death.

ok...

1. Which commands of God have ever saved one single person?

and

2. are you aware that we are told in the NT that animal sacrifice NEVER saved anyone?

please get back to us on that, and then we might have more to discuss with the rest of your post, but let's just start with the above, because what you are stating is not in the Bible

I understand you wish to obey God, no problem, but let us not add to the word