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L
Willie., you need to give UnderGrace a hug and an apology because you hurt her feelings it's obvious. I remember that post and although I have no worries about Todd., I understand UnderGrace's reservations.
It stings to have someone say harsh or negative things to us on CC. Especially a man like you Willie. You are after all one of the "biggies" here (imo) Outspoken and to the point saying what you think. We women can feel the sting if words are not kind here. Seriously I've been on the other end of someone's negative responses and it does sting.
I've even felt bad when you disagreed with me so if you said I was an ill puppy I'd be crushed. You know I think highly of you Willie and being a woman., I understand how UnderGrace feels. She needs a warm hug and some reassurance. A lot of time has past since that post so there are some unresolved hurt feelings. We all need reassurance from time to time here on CC.
L
ok kiddies....ahem.....
once upon a time the site had a forum
sadly some folks had no decorum
a pm button was therefore added
so folks could reply and go at it
just a reminder from little ole me
hate me or love, or let me be,
maybe I need a day at the beach
instead of sitting here trying to preach
I just hoped for a serious chat
but I guess today, that's not where you're at
so, whatever and put me on mute
or complain about me and give me the boot
once upon a time the site had a forum
sadly some folks had no decorum
a pm button was therefore added
so folks could reply and go at it
just a reminder from little ole me
hate me or love, or let me be,
maybe I need a day at the beach
instead of sitting here trying to preach
I just hoped for a serious chat
but I guess today, that's not where you're at
so, whatever and put me on mute
or complain about me and give me the boot
L
ok kiddies....ahem.....
once upon a time the site had a forum
sadly some folks had no decorum
a pm button was therefore added
so folks could reply and go at it
just a reminder from little ole me
hate me or love, or let me be,
maybe I need a day at the beach
instead of sitting here trying to preach
I just hoped for a serious chat
but I guess today, that's not where you're at
so, whatever and put me on mute
or complain about me and give me the boot
once upon a time the site had a forum
sadly some folks had no decorum
a pm button was therefore added
so folks could reply and go at it
just a reminder from little ole me
hate me or love, or let me be,
maybe I need a day at the beach
instead of sitting here trying to preach
I just hoped for a serious chat
but I guess today, that's not where you're at
so, whatever and put me on mute
or complain about me and give me the boot
Oh Deary I'm sorry. Some things have been said out in the open so I felt some things have to be posted out in the open. But you know., when these threads start it always gets derailed at points in the thread because people are relating. Anytime we are relating to each other things get side tracked. Stuff gets said and mis understood and have to be put back on track. It's the nature of people right? So I'm sorry to have added to the derailment longer than the usual derailment.
I do like this thread you started and will continue to post on it sissy!! This is a good topic and is getting some things posted that helps in the understanding of hyper grace (since that is now a real phrase) as much as it sounds negative it seems to be a phrase that is here to stay unfortunately.
Hey Lauren., I didn't know you were so talented with the poems!!!!!
My observation is simple.
The doctrines or approach to faith is not denied, it is the fruit or consequences that are disputed.
It appears to me HG are claiming they have a better spiritual effect on people and they come to Christ
in a real way rather than is a legalistic environment.
The following 5 points are obvious conclusions from JGIG's list.
1. If someone sins we just "point you to the living Grace of God"
2. Don't need rules or scripture just the Holy Spirit
3. Morality is for hypocrites
4. Jesus words dismissed as only impossible standards to create condemnation.
5. Confrontation of sin is not appealing to sinners.
Now walking with Christ in righteousness and purity, with a clean heart, is our goal.
What I find inspiring is you want love from the heart, to have open and clear emotions,
to be the same on the inside as you appear on the outside.
The problem we both have, is only in a personal one to one with the Lord will we ever
achieve this. So I encourage you to dive into His word, dwell in His love and the Holy Spirit
and walk in His grace. People will always bring baggage into church, from their culture, from
their families. Some are out and out racists, bigots, hate women, love money, want power,
influence etc. but we are just to praise the Lord and carry on.
Some want to say I started the antagonism, but the above is all I ever have stood for. If I
started to list the issues about the church and church history, life would not be long enough,
and nothing would be gained.
So God bless you, and your battles with the great foes you want to bring down. Not sure you
know at all what you are fighting or why, but I hope you find blessing in it.
The doctrines or approach to faith is not denied, it is the fruit or consequences that are disputed.
It appears to me HG are claiming they have a better spiritual effect on people and they come to Christ
in a real way rather than is a legalistic environment.
The following 5 points are obvious conclusions from JGIG's list.
1. If someone sins we just "point you to the living Grace of God"
2. Don't need rules or scripture just the Holy Spirit
3. Morality is for hypocrites
4. Jesus words dismissed as only impossible standards to create condemnation.
5. Confrontation of sin is not appealing to sinners.
Now walking with Christ in righteousness and purity, with a clean heart, is our goal.
What I find inspiring is you want love from the heart, to have open and clear emotions,
to be the same on the inside as you appear on the outside.
The problem we both have, is only in a personal one to one with the Lord will we ever
achieve this. So I encourage you to dive into His word, dwell in His love and the Holy Spirit
and walk in His grace. People will always bring baggage into church, from their culture, from
their families. Some are out and out racists, bigots, hate women, love money, want power,
influence etc. but we are just to praise the Lord and carry on.
Some want to say I started the antagonism, but the above is all I ever have stood for. If I
started to list the issues about the church and church history, life would not be long enough,
and nothing would be gained.
So God bless you, and your battles with the great foes you want to bring down. Not sure you
know at all what you are fighting or why, but I hope you find blessing in it.
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”
1 cor 1:30-31
Amen & praise the Lord
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.
Rom 13:13
Instead, be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 5:18-20
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.
Rom 12:3
So I admire your dedication and desire to walk closely with the Lord and realise what it
means to be His child, a member of the Kingdom of heaven. Some days this does feel far
off until the presence of the Lord falls on you. But our King is very gracious, so amen
to that most precious love He gave us through the cross, and to Him we owe a debt we
can never pay or earn, my Lord and King, Jesus Christ.
1 cor 1:30-31
Amen & praise the Lord
Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.
Rom 13:13
Instead, be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Eph 5:18-20
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.
Rom 12:3
So I admire your dedication and desire to walk closely with the Lord and realise what it
means to be His child, a member of the Kingdom of heaven. Some days this does feel far
off until the presence of the Lord falls on you. But our King is very gracious, so amen
to that most precious love He gave us through the cross, and to Him we owe a debt we
can never pay or earn, my Lord and King, Jesus Christ.
The problem with the above post is its intension is not to address the points I make, but just
to attack me, personally, and say I am just inventing ideas.
Now I understand to people with a very narrow way of approaching complex subjects where they
put things in defined boxes and that is where they stay. If you connect the points in ways that
are new and challenging, the people who want to hold onto their framework will not address the
points because then they would have to change but just go for the individual.
What shows these constructs or points are valid is because those from the same school of thought
agree with what I am saying. So it goes deeper than grace777 is trying to claim, but then this is
always his tactic.
Equally the HG group come from a similar school of thought and emotional connections so naturally
agree with the criticism.
"being satanic, to liars, to lovers of sin, demonic, evil workers, heretics..etc. "
This list makes me laugh.
"Liars" - people said I was lying, if I was not they are the liar.
"being satanic" - I do not think anyone is satanic here or I have said they are, I just wonder at the
spirit behind the statements and certainty about things clearly from the Lord.
"demonic" - As above
"evil workers" - Slagging off those who stand for righteousness and purity are evil, is doing the work
of the enemy.
"heretics" - Saying future sin is forgiven is a heresy in my view, and people who teach this are heretics.
"lovers of sin" - I do not recall ever saying this. What I did say is people confessed they sinned
daily, hourly and could not conquer what they called sin and lived with it, like it was part of the walk with
Christ rather than a contradiction. So I would like to see how this became lovers of sin.
So this is an attempt at slander, but I expect nothing less from Grace777.
But praise the Lord, for His name is the Highest in Heaven, the Lamb upon the throne to whom all
glory and honour is due.
So this post has all the hallmarks of lies, slander, heresy and spiritual superiority.
But then I suppose if you bring a belief system into the light and show it for what it is, the
biggest proponents are not going to thank you, rather they will hate you and try and discredit
everything you say. No changer there then.
to attack me, personally, and say I am just inventing ideas.
Now I understand to people with a very narrow way of approaching complex subjects where they
put things in defined boxes and that is where they stay. If you connect the points in ways that
are new and challenging, the people who want to hold onto their framework will not address the
points because then they would have to change but just go for the individual.
What shows these constructs or points are valid is because those from the same school of thought
agree with what I am saying. So it goes deeper than grace777 is trying to claim, but then this is
always his tactic.
Equally the HG group come from a similar school of thought and emotional connections so naturally
agree with the criticism.
"being satanic, to liars, to lovers of sin, demonic, evil workers, heretics..etc. "
This list makes me laugh.
"Liars" - people said I was lying, if I was not they are the liar.
"being satanic" - I do not think anyone is satanic here or I have said they are, I just wonder at the
spirit behind the statements and certainty about things clearly from the Lord.
"demonic" - As above
"evil workers" - Slagging off those who stand for righteousness and purity are evil, is doing the work
of the enemy.
"heretics" - Saying future sin is forgiven is a heresy in my view, and people who teach this are heretics.
"lovers of sin" - I do not recall ever saying this. What I did say is people confessed they sinned
daily, hourly and could not conquer what they called sin and lived with it, like it was part of the walk with
Christ rather than a contradiction. So I would like to see how this became lovers of sin.
So this is an attempt at slander, but I expect nothing less from Grace777.
But praise the Lord, for His name is the Highest in Heaven, the Lamb upon the throne to whom all
glory and honour is due.
So this post has all the hallmarks of lies, slander, heresy and spiritual superiority.
But then I suppose if you bring a belief system into the light and show it for what it is, the
biggest proponents are not going to thank you, rather they will hate you and try and discredit
everything you say. No changer there then.
Willie., you need to give UnderGrace a hug and an apology because you hurt her feelings it's obvious. I remember that post and although I have no worries about Todd., I understand UnderGrace's reservations.
It stings to have someone say harsh or negative things to us on CC. Especially a man like you Willie. You are after all one of the "biggies" here (imo) Outspoken and to the point saying what you think. We women can feel the sting if words are not kind here. Seriously I've been on the other end of someone's negative responses and it does sting.
I've even felt bad when you disagreed with me so if you said I was an ill puppy I'd be crushed. You know I think highly of you Willie and being a woman., I understand how UnderGrace feels. She needs a warm hug and some reassurance. A lot of time has past since that post so there are some unresolved hurt feelings. We all need reassurance from time to time here on CC.
L
Mercy is God withholding the punishment we deserve
God blesses us by having substituted His own Son in our place
We receive grace from God...He is merciful towards us.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Ephesians 2:8
In His mercy, God extends grace and through that grace He extends forgiveness
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace Ephesians 1:7
Through His grace, we have reconciliation...with Him and even with each other as His grace is extended through us
19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1: 19-20
Grace is, briefly, God's unmerited favor to us
That means that even though we do not deserve...that is we have all fallen far short of the equivalent of sinless...God extends His mercy through His Son taking our place and blesses us with His grace
I mentioned broken cisterns in the op...the words given to Jeremiah by God:
My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water. Jeremiah 2:13
The only way to being accepted by God is the way that He has created. No self-effort or act of sacrifice is acceptable to Him. Even so, He only extends one kind of grace..as explained above.
When a person sins or continues in their sin, they are not exhibiting anything other than sin. They have fallen short of the mark; they may have received God's mercy but they are failing to live in His grace...the grace He offers.
Can we discuss that grace as it is described in scripture without adding to it or detracting from it?
God blesses us by having substituted His own Son in our place
We receive grace from God...He is merciful towards us.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Ephesians 2:8
In His mercy, God extends grace and through that grace He extends forgiveness
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace Ephesians 1:7
Through His grace, we have reconciliation...with Him and even with each other as His grace is extended through us
19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1: 19-20
Grace is, briefly, God's unmerited favor to us
That means that even though we do not deserve...that is we have all fallen far short of the equivalent of sinless...God extends His mercy through His Son taking our place and blesses us with His grace
I mentioned broken cisterns in the op...the words given to Jeremiah by God:
My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water. Jeremiah 2:13
The only way to being accepted by God is the way that He has created. No self-effort or act of sacrifice is acceptable to Him. Even so, He only extends one kind of grace..as explained above.
When a person sins or continues in their sin, they are not exhibiting anything other than sin. They have fallen short of the mark; they may have received God's mercy but they are failing to live in His grace...the grace He offers.
Can we discuss that grace as it is described in scripture without adding to it or detracting from it?
There on the mountain that you have climbed you will die and be gathered to your people, just as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people. This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites.
Deut 32:50-51
What I find amazing is as servants of the King we still can upset Him, like in any relationship
He delegates His authority and privilege to us, and expects us to respond appropriately.
Emphasising empty vessels only filled and inspired by Christ without the believers involvement
does not match this obvious eternal way God has of communing with His people.
If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.
John 20:23
Now imagine Jesus has said this to some believers here. If they hold a sin against someone
and do not forgive it, then they are doomed. This is probably one of the most difficult verses there
is, and is used by the RCC to excommunicate people.
This is the ultimate delegation of spiritual authority, rejection from the Kingdom.
Because of how strong this is, I can see it as means to the apostles themselves, but it does not
apply today. That is my view, because I am not sure anyone has that walk, which would warrant
this authority being available.
Deut 32:50-51
What I find amazing is as servants of the King we still can upset Him, like in any relationship
He delegates His authority and privilege to us, and expects us to respond appropriately.
Emphasising empty vessels only filled and inspired by Christ without the believers involvement
does not match this obvious eternal way God has of communing with His people.
If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.
John 20:23
Now imagine Jesus has said this to some believers here. If they hold a sin against someone
and do not forgive it, then they are doomed. This is probably one of the most difficult verses there
is, and is used by the RCC to excommunicate people.
This is the ultimate delegation of spiritual authority, rejection from the Kingdom.
Because of how strong this is, I can see it as means to the apostles themselves, but it does not
apply today. That is my view, because I am not sure anyone has that walk, which would warrant
this authority being available.
L
oh my look....posted it again...idle hands...gotta keep on keeping on
and hoo boy...yet another chance to talk about the only thing that really matters!!!
for eternity anyway
Mercy is God withholding the punishment we deserve
God blesses us by having substituted His own Son in our place
We receive grace from God...He is merciful towards us.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Ephesians 2:8
In His mercy, God extends grace and through that grace He extends forgiveness
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace Ephesians 1:7
Through His grace, we have reconciliation...with Him and even with each other as His grace is extended through us
19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1: 19-20
Grace is, briefly, God's unmerited favor to us
That means that even though we do not deserve...that is we have all fallen far short of the equivalent of sinless...God extends His mercy through His Son taking our place and blesses us with His grace
I mentioned broken cisterns in the op...the words given to Jeremiah by God:
My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water. Jeremiah 2:13
The only way to being accepted by God is the way that He has created. No self-effort or act of sacrifice is acceptable to Him. Even so, He only extends one kind of grace..as explained above.
When a person sins or continues in their sin, they are not exhibiting anything other than sin. They have fallen short of the mark; they may have received God's mercy but they are failing to live in His grace...the grace He offers.
Can we discuss that grace as it is described in scripture without adding to it or detracting from it?
and hoo boy...yet another chance to talk about the only thing that really matters!!!
for eternity anyway
Mercy is God withholding the punishment we deserve
God blesses us by having substituted His own Son in our place
We receive grace from God...He is merciful towards us.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God Ephesians 2:8
In His mercy, God extends grace and through that grace He extends forgiveness
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace Ephesians 1:7
Through His grace, we have reconciliation...with Him and even with each other as His grace is extended through us
19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1: 19-20
Grace is, briefly, God's unmerited favor to us
That means that even though we do not deserve...that is we have all fallen far short of the equivalent of sinless...God extends His mercy through His Son taking our place and blesses us with His grace
I mentioned broken cisterns in the op...the words given to Jeremiah by God:
My people have committed two sins: They have forsaken me, the spring of living water, and have dug their own cisterns, broken cisterns that cannot hold water. Jeremiah 2:13
The only way to being accepted by God is the way that He has created. No self-effort or act of sacrifice is acceptable to Him. Even so, He only extends one kind of grace..as explained above.
When a person sins or continues in their sin, they are not exhibiting anything other than sin. They have fallen short of the mark; they may have received God's mercy but they are failing to live in His grace...the grace He offers.
Can we discuss that grace as it is described in scripture without adding to it or detracting from it?
L
Now here is a great reference:
14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
here we see John saying that Jesus is full of grace (and truth)
Jesus is FULL of grace!
how do we see that? experience that?
It seems that the apostles put great emphasis on the grace of God in Christ and His completed work for all of us.
Whenever we heard the word of His grace towards us in Christ's finished work - it enables us to walk in His life that is in us in Christ. We "experience grace" when we hear of Jesus and what He has already done for us because of His great love for us.
It looks like it is only grace ( God's unmerited favor towards us also His and ability in us ) is what is needed to build us up and to give us the inheritance that is ours in the Lord. Here is Paul speaking.
Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Here Peter says that we are to fix our hope "completely" on the grace that is being brought to us as we get a revelation of Jesus Christ. The revelation of Jesus Christ brings with it - the grace to live and be who we are in Him now - because we are joined as one in the spirit.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
The lifting up and unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ brings about this grace that we need to live.
It seems our loving Father will be unveiling this to us for all eternity. He will be unveiling the surpassing riches of His grace towards us in Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is unfathomable in His majesty and His work for us.
Ephesians 2:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Does knowing of our Father's great love and grace toward us really want to make us go out and sin all you want because we teach the greatness of God's grace in Christ towards us? I say NO. It makes me run to Him and fills my heart with love.
Whenever we heard the word of His grace towards us in Christ's finished work - it enables us to walk in His life that is in us in Christ. We "experience grace" when we hear of Jesus and what He has already done for us because of His great love for us.
It looks like it is only grace ( God's unmerited favor towards us also His and ability in us ) is what is needed to build us up and to give us the inheritance that is ours in the Lord. Here is Paul speaking.
Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Here Peter says that we are to fix our hope "completely" on the grace that is being brought to us as we get a revelation of Jesus Christ. The revelation of Jesus Christ brings with it - the grace to live and be who we are in Him now - because we are joined as one in the spirit.
1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
The lifting up and unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ brings about this grace that we need to live.
It seems our loving Father will be unveiling this to us for all eternity. He will be unveiling the surpassing riches of His grace towards us in Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ is unfathomable in His majesty and His work for us.
Ephesians 2:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Does knowing of our Father's great love and grace toward us really want to make us go out and sin all you want because we teach the greatness of God's grace in Christ towards us? I say NO. It makes me run to Him and fills my heart with love.
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Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
Heb 12:1-3
Heb 12:1-3