Light -> Sun in Genesis.

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Jul 22, 2014
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Light can be measured, so it is a real physical property of our universe that God created. The vault or expanse (KJV says "firmament") that divided the waters from above from the waters below is the heavens. There are three heavens mentioned in Scripture (of which you can do a Google search on for Scriptural references). The 1st heavens is Earth's atmosphere or the sky above us. The 2nd heavens is outer space, which is filled with the planets and stars. The third heaven (Which Paul mentions by name) is the spiritual kingdom of God.

All these things are very real.

However, what is truly amazing and beautiful is that the first chapter of Genesis of the creation week metaphorically talks about Jesus Christ.

ECT Jesus Christ in Genesis Chapter 1 - Theology Online | Christian Forums & More
 
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oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
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Well let me just take you a bit further. Most translations will define raqiya' as expanse rather than firmament which implies a firm barrier. I would submit that what's really happened was God divided waters by an expanse of space, not a barrier. The implication is He put distance between the 2 halves.
Yes this is how I see it. Firmament seems to merely imply a separation.

And it gets more complicated when you consider that this expanse is named, heaven and that it contains not only birds and clouds but the sun moon and stars.

Gen. 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night...

The expanse of day 2 was actually the expansion of the cosmos, not just the troposphere. If the expanse is only atmospheric in scope, then the sun moon and stars are not really in it.

This is why virtually all creationists have moved away from the canopy theory, and toward Russell Humphrey's exegesis of the text. Humphrey's is currently at ICR, but I don't know of any creationists sticking with the canopy theory. Henry Morris first conceived it (the greatest creationist that ever lived), but I think he got this one wrong.
Well, possibly but I am not sure that this necessarily eliminates the canopy theory. I guess of course that would depend upon hoy one defined "canopy."
 
Dec 18, 2013
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An aside to this, can you imagine the vastness and richness of God's heaven?
Only barely from what I can glean from Genesis, Ezekiel, and Revelation. And even the descriptions written therein are too glorious to properly and fully imagine with my feeble brain of flesh.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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Dear people,


In Genesis 1:3 stands:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

A bit further stands:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, [SUP]15 [/SUP]and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. [SUP]16 [/SUP]God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. [SUP]17 [/SUP]God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, [SUP]18 [/SUP]to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

So. First there was the light. Then there was the sun, moon and stars.
That makes no sense to me.
Could anyone explain it?


Bless'
Channa.

BTW; If there's no answer. Could you please just say it?
Well ! Did you get your answer, or are more confused?
 
May 14, 2014
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Light could be symbolic of many things. He separated it from the darkness. Good/evil...wisdom/folly...etc.
 
May 15, 2013
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Light can be measured, so it is a real physical property of our universe that God created. The vault or expanse (KJV says "firmament") that divided the waters from above from the waters below is the heavens. There are three heavens mentioned in Scripture (of which you can do a Google search on for Scriptural references). The 1st heavens is Earth's atmosphere or the sky above us. The 2nd heavens is outer space, which is filled with the planets and stars. The third heaven (Which Paul mentions by name) is the spiritual kingdom of God.

All these things are very real.

However, what is truly amazing and beautiful is that the first chapter of Genesis of the creation week metaphorically talks about Jesus Christ.

ECT Jesus Christ in Genesis Chapter 1 - Theology Online | Christian Forums & More


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How many heavens are there and what is the third heaven Paul speaks of in 2 Corinthians 12:
The Hebrew word for “heavens” is shamayim, it is in a plural form, meaning “heights,” “elevations.” It is found in the first verse of the Bible (Genesis 1:1; 2:1). The Bible teaches in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, he did not make another heaven after this time. The phrase “heavens and earth” are used to indicate the whole universe (Genesis 1:1; Jeremiah 23:24; Acts 17:24). According to the Jewish tradition from the Bible there were three heavens. All are attributed to God as the creator. Psalm 102:25 “Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.”
How many heavens are there and what is the third heaven Paul speaks of in 2 Corinthians 12

12 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

Sound to me that he was referring to two people that one was caught up in the third Heaven, and the other was caught up in Paradise. So it might be more than just three heavens.
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C

Calminian

Guest
Yes this is how I see it. Firmament seems to merely imply a separation.


Well, possibly but I am not sure that this necessarily eliminates the canopy theory. I guess of course that would depend upon hoy one defined "canopy."
I would agree, there's nothing in the text that prohibits a vapor canopy. Just saying I don't think vs. 6-8 are referring to it.
 
C

Calminian

Guest
... The 1st heavens is Earth's atmosphere or the sky above us. The 2nd heavens is outer space, which is filled with the planets and stars. The third heaven (Which Paul mentions by name) is the spiritual kingdom of God.....
This is a very common belief, the problem is, scripture never defines the 3 heavens in this way. It mentions 3 heavens, and it mentions that birds and clouds and the stars are in them, but never specifically says the clouds are in the 1st heavens, the stars in the second, etc. It's really just man's speculation that this is how they are divided.

Also, there is nothing in the Bible that describes a 'spiritual' heaven. This is all speculation. Maybe there is, but what would a spiritual realm look like anyway? In fact, how can a place be spiritual? I think the reasoning is, angels are spiritual beings who dwell in the heavens, so therefore the heavens must be spiritual. But why would angels need a realm that is spiritual? They dwell on the physical earth just fine. They even ate physical food with Abraham.

Others speculate that since God is in heaven, it can be physical or it wouldn't be able to contain him. But scripture says that heaven can't contain God anyway, so why not the physical universe?

And I personally wouldn't be surprised at all if the heaven of heavens were somewhere in the physical universe, billions of miles away. Can't prove it either way, but it's within the realm of possibility. It's speculation but possible.
 
K

Kaycie

Guest
Dear people,


In Genesis 1:3 stands:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

A bit further stands:

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, [SUP]15 [/SUP]and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. [SUP]16 [/SUP]God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. [SUP]17 [/SUP]God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, [SUP]18 [/SUP]to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. [SUP]19 [/SUP]And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

So. First there was the light. Then there was the sun, moon and stars.
That makes no sense to me.
Could anyone explain it?


Bless'
Channa.

BTW; If there's no answer. Could you please just say it?
Jesus is the Light.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Jesus is the Light.
I cannot agree that light can be summed up in Christ ignoring all other aspects of our one true God.

I would also like people to consider that these words were first breathed into men who didn't write them down for many years. They had a thought pattern different than we do. They didn't gather facts to see how they could use them to reason with and create something new, they looked at facts to see how they could fit their life into those facts. These were brilliant people, but it was the Greeks who came along thousands of years later that would post the questions people post on this forum.

When our Hellenistic mind set goes to work on scripture written for the Hebrew mind set, it comes up with ideas that God didn't breath these scriptures for us to do. the first chapters of Genesis are not manuals how God created the world. They are facts about that God created our world and what we are to know to live best in that world.
 

Channa

Senior Member
Mar 1, 2014
381
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Well ! Did you get your answer, or are more confused?
Well. I did get my answer. For me is it clear now.
Someone said that all the laws of nature are not applying now.
I made the fault to think in earthlogic. (sorry for the unlogic word. English isn't my native as you can see ;))
Many other interesting things heard.
I didn't follow the discussion on page 3,4,5 exactly
It was not my intent when I started this forumn to ... idk cause this argue
(You may not agree with the word argue ok)
However: thank ya all for the replies that are meant to give a clear explanation from a Bibical point of view.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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This is a very common belief, the problem is, scripture never defines the 3 heavens in this way. It mentions 3 heavens, and it mentions that birds and clouds and the stars are in them, but never specifically says the clouds are in the 1st heavens, the stars in the second, etc. It's really just man's speculation that this is how they are divided.

Also, there is nothing in the Bible that describes a 'spiritual' heaven. This is all speculation. Maybe there is, but what would a spiritual realm look like anyway? In fact, how can a place be spiritual? I think the reasoning is, angels are spiritual beings who dwell in the heavens, so therefore the heavens must be spiritual. But why would angels need a realm that is spiritual? They dwell on the physical earth just fine. They even ate physical food with Abraham.

Others speculate that since God is in heaven, it can be physical or it wouldn't be able to contain him. But scripture says that heaven can't contain God anyway, so why not the physical universe?

And I personally wouldn't be surprised at all if the heaven of heavens were somewhere in the physical universe, billions of miles away. Can't prove it either way, but it's within the realm of possibility. It's speculation but possible.
Three Heavens


The Scripture mentions three heavens (2 Corinthians 12:2), not just one!

The First Heaven:

The first heaven is earth's atmosphere where birds fly (Genesis 1:20, Jeremiah 4:25; 34:20,Lamentations 4:19, Zephaniah 1:3). One of the Hebrew words for 'heaven' is shamayim. This same word is translated as 'sky' in the Scripture, as can be seen by comparing Genesis 7:3, "fowls also of the air," with Genesis 7:23, "fowl of the heaven." The word 'sky' and 'heaven' are used interchangeably from the same Hebrew word (Psalm 8:8). So the first heaven is synonymous with 'heights' or 'elevations.'

Here are other examples to illustrate the first heaven. Exodus 19:20 says the Lord was on top of Mount Sinai when he called Moses up there, and God describes Mount Sinai as 'heaven' (Exodus 20:22, Deuteronomy 4:36). Here, everything above the ground is called 'heaven'.

Another example of the first heaven is in Amos 9:1-3, where God states that at the time of this judgment, nobody will be able to flee away (verse 1), even "though they climb up to heaven" (verse 2). This "heaven" is defined in the next verse, verse 3, as climbing to the top of Mount Carmel.

Another example is where the Scripture speaks of the "dew of heaven" (Genesis 27:28,39,Deuteronomy 33:28, Daniel 4:15-33; 5:21). The first heaven, from which dew comes, means the atmosphere, where the clouds and the wind roam. Therefore, everything above the ground is called 'heaven."

Another Hebrew word for the first heaven is 'shachaq.' This same word for heaven (Psalm 89:6,37) is also translated as 'sky' or 'skies' (Deuteronomy 33:26; Job 37:18; Psalm 18:11), and as 'clouds' (Job 35:5; 36:28; Psalm 36:5; 68:34, Pro. 3:20; 8:28).

The Second Heaven:

The second heaven is outer space where the planets and stars exist (Genesis 1:14-17; 15:5;22:17; 26:4, Deuteronomy 1:10; 17:3; Psalm 8:3, Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29). Usually the term "host of heaven" or "firmament of the heaven" is used to describe this second heaven.

The Third Heaven:

The third heaven is literally called "the third heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:2. This third heaven is what Christ calls his "Father's house" (John 14:2), and both Christ and the Apostle Paul calls it "paradise" (Luke 23:43, 2 Corinthians 12:2-4, Revelation 2:7). This is where God and the heavenly sanctuary exist (1 Peter 3:22). This third heaven is also known as the "heaven of heavens" (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27, 2 Chronicles 2:6; 6:18, Nehemiah 9:6, Psalms 148:4), "The heavenly Jerusalem" (Galatians 4: 26; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 3:12), the "kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 25:1, James 2:5), the "eternal kingdom" (2 Peter 1:11), the "eternal inheritance" (1 Peter. 1:4, Hebrews 9:15), and the "better country" (Hebrews 11:14,16). The fact that there are more than one 'heaven' can be shown by Psalm 115:16, "The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD'S." There are obviously two different 'heavens' being addressed in this one verse.

Since Elijah could not have gone to the heaven of God's throne, then to which heaven did he go? He was not taken to God's heavenly throne (as some imagine). He was actually taken into this earth's atmosphere, the first heaven. There could be no whirlwind in any other place but in the atmosphere surrounding this earth.


Source Used:
Elijah, Enoch, and Moses
Important Note: Although I quoted part of this article to help explain the three heavens, I do not agree with their interpretation of on Enoch. I believe Enoch was translated or spiritually taken by God and did not see death (as the Scriptures say). So not all the views expressed at this website reflect my views on the Scriptures.
 
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Jul 22, 2014
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[TD]How many heavens are there and what is the third heaven Paul speaks of in 2 Corinthians 12:
The Hebrew word for “heavens” is shamayim, it is in a plural form, meaning “heights,” “elevations.” It is found in the first verse of the Bible (Genesis 1:1; 2:1). The Bible teaches in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, he did not make another heaven after this time. The phrase “heavens and earth” are used to indicate the whole universe (Genesis 1:1; Jeremiah 23:24; Acts 17:24). According to the Jewish tradition from the Bible there were three heavens. All are attributed to God as the creator. Psalm 102:25 “Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.”
How many heavens are there and what is the third heaven Paul speaks of in 2 Corinthians 12

12 I must go on boasting. Although there is nothing to be gained, I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell.

Sound to me that he was referring to two people that one was caught up in the third Heaven, and the other was caught up in Paradise. So it might be more than just three heavens.
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Heaven (The Firmament) was placed in-between two bodies of water. The waters below are the lakes, rivers, oceans, and streams. The waters above would be the gaseous clouds or nebulae in outer space. For these gases are just another form of water.

Oh, and I also believe it is a strong possibility that even farther out beyond these nebulae, is the sea of glass in Heaven, too.



This sea of glass will be no more when the New Heaven and New Earth appears at the End of the Millennium and the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 21:1 KJV).
 
May 15, 2013
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Heaven (The Firmament) was placed in-between two bodies of water. The waters below are the lakes, rivers, oceans, and streams. The waters above would be the gaseous clouds or nebulae in outer space. For these gases are just another form of water.

Oh, and I also believe it is a strong possibility that even farther out beyond these nebulae, is the sea of glass in Heaven, too.



This sea of glass will be no more when the New Heaven and New Earth appears at the End of the Millennium and the Great White Throne Judgment (Revelation 21:1 KJV).
Matthew 3:2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”

Matthew 6:10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.

Revelation 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah, and he will reign for ever and ever.”

To me its sound like that it is going to be a merger that is going to take place and Jesus was describing what our new bodies (Multidimensional bodies) will be able to do. Does you know that the air that we are breathing has water vapors or gases in it?

Here's a site that explains it.
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/langley/pdf/245886main_MeteorologyTeacherRes-Ch10.r3.pdf
 
May 15, 2013
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Oh yeah, and I was trying to show on the site that I had posted that Heaven could also be referred as Level, and since we are above the lowest of all levels and or elevated above the realm of death, and so this level is to be consider as our heaven and which we suppose to have had dominion over it like God has dominion over His and Ours.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Multi-dimensional bodies?

What?
 
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May 15, 2013
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Multi-dimensional bodies?

What?
Jesus was able to transfigure His body like the sun, able to ascend and descend into another dimension, and walk on water, and so on..

There is evidence to suggest that other worlds or dimensions exist just beyond the range of our normal perception, but we remain unaware of them because our minds are not objectively conscious at these higher levels. Our normal level of consciousness is restricted in some way, preventing us from tuning in to these subtler realms. If you have young children you might have noticed them looking a things that don't appear to be therehttp://www.esotericscience.org/article6a.htm or talking to "imaginary friends". Very young children can actually see into these hidden worlds, but they lose the ability as they grow older.

Do you want to float around the astral plane without dying first? Are you longing to leave your body at home for a few hours to explore the cosmos? People report out-of-body experiences (OBEs) while dreaming, during near-death experiences, or through relaxation techniques such as meditation. For some people, having an OBE can be like being Alice in your very own Wonderland. Read on to learn how to experience this on purpose.
http://www.wikihow.com/Have-an-Out-of-Body-Experience
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
Well. I did get my answer. For me is it clear now.
Someone said that all the laws of nature are not applying now.
I made the fault to think in earthlogic. (sorry for the unlogic word. English isn't my native as you can see ;))
Many other interesting things heard.
I didn't follow the discussion on page 3,4,5 exactly
It was not my intent when I started this forumn to ... idk cause this argue
(You may not agree with the word argue ok)
However: thank ya all for the replies that are meant to give a clear explanation from a Bibical point of view.
God says in His word that His laws do not change, they are fixed (Jeremiah 35:25) and that we can look at nature and see God invisible attributes (Romans 1:20). The bible also says God can not lie and that God does not change. Just think about that.
 
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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Jesus was able to transfigure His body like the sun, able to ascend and descend into another dimension, and walk on water, and so on..

There is evidence to suggest that other worlds or dimensions exist just beyond the range of our normal perception, but we remain unaware of them because our minds are not objectively conscious at these higher levels. Our normal level of consciousness is restricted in some way, preventing us from tuning in to these subtler realms. If you have young children you might have noticed them looking a things that don't appear to be therehttp://www.esotericscience.org/article6a.htm or talking to "imaginary friends". Very young children can actually see into these hidden worlds, but they lose the ability as they grow older.

Do you want to float around the astral plane without dying first? Are you longing to leave your body at home for a few hours to explore the cosmos? People report out-of-body experiences (OBEs) while dreaming, during near-death experiences, or through relaxation techniques such as meditation. For some people, having an OBE can be like being Alice in your very own Wonderland. Read on to learn how to experience this on purpose.
http://www.wikihow.com/Have-an-Out-of-Body-Experience
Would you categorize yourself as a fundamentalist Christian?
Do you believe in the false idea that everyone has the "Christ consciousness" and they just need to tap into it?
What church religion would you classify yourself as? Christian Scientist?
Do you believe all religions are one?

Just curious.
 
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