Limited Atonement -- Calvinist Style (Spurgeon was Reformed.)

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#1
“I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.” 1Cor. 9:22

Paul’s great object was not merely to instruct and to improve, but to save. Anything short of this would have disappointed him; he would have men renewed in heart, forgiven, sanctified, in fact, saved. Have our Christian labours been aimed at anything below this great point? Then let us amend our ways, for of what avail will it be at the last great day to have taught and moralized men if they appear before God unsaved? Blood-red will our skirts be if through life we have sought inferior objects, and forgotten that men needed to be saved. Paul knew the ruin of man’s natural state, and did not try to educate him, but to save him; he saw men sinking to hell, and did not talk of refining them, but of saving from the wrath to come. To compass their salvation, he gave himself up with untiring zeal to telling abroad the gospel, to warning and beseeching men to be reconciled to God. His prayers were importunate and his labours incessant. To save souls was his consuming passion, his ambition, his calling. He became a servant to all men, toiling for his race, feeling a woe within him if he preached not the gospel. He laid aside his preferences to prevent prejudice; he submitted his will in things indifferent, and if men would but receive the gospel, he raised no questions about forms or ceremonies: the gospel was the one all-important business with him. If he might save some he would be content. This was the crown for which he strove, the sole and sufficient reward of all his labours and self-denials. Dear reader, have you and I lived to win souls at this noble rate? Are we possessed with the same all-absorbing desire? If not, why not? Jesus died for sinners, cannot we live for them? Where is our tenderness? Where our love to Christ, if we seek not his honour in the salvation of men? O that the Lord would saturate us through and through with an undying zeal for the souls of men.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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#2
Jesus died for sinners, cannot we live for them? Where is our tenderness? Where our love to Christ, if we seek not his honour in the salvation of men? O that the Lord would saturate us through and through with an undying zeal for the souls of men.
Wonderful thoughts here, self reflection is needed by myself and by all concening this IMO. One thing that I can say is that He is our Pastor, Guide, Shepherd, Master, Leader, etc. May we submit to Him in thought, word and deed.

John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 –poimén)."

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Matthew 16:24-27, “Then יהושע said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his stake, and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it. For what is a man profited if he gains all the world, and loses his own life? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his life? For the Son of Aḏam is going to come in the esteem of His Father with His messengers, and then He shall reward each according to his works.”

John/Yahanan 10:27-30, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord."

John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

*Mosheh wrote:

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 - שָׁמַעshama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

2 John/Yahanan 1:9, "Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have Yah. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”

John/Yahanan 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

John 14:23-24, "יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”
2 Thessalonians 1:8, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know Yah, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah.”

1 Peter 4:17, "Because it is time for judgment to begin from the House of Yah. And if firstly from us, what is the end of those who do not obey the Good News of Yah?"

Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
 
May 11, 2014
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#3
Hizikyah did you know that many of the famous calvinists would agree with you on the scriptures you often post on obedience?

Read those verses in the commentaries of the likes of John Gill and he is right there with you.

From John Gill:
"if a man love me, he will keep my words; by his "words" are meant not his doctrines, but his ordinances; the same with his commandments, John 14:21, which he has said, ordered, and commanded to be observed, and which are observed by such who truly love him, and that from a principle of love to him, and with a view to his glory"

John 14:23 Commentaries: Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,808
557
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#4
We do not believe that Christ made any effectual atonement for those who are forever damned; we dare not think that the blood of Christ was ever shed with the intention of saving those whom God foreknew never could be saved, and some of whom were even in Hell when Christ, according to some men’s account, died to save them.

C.H. Spurgeon

“Particular Redemption,” http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0181.htm.


 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#5
Hizikyah did you know that many of the famous calvinists would agree with you on the scriptures you often post on obedience?

Read those verses in the commentaries of the likes of John Gill and he is right there with you.

From John Gill:
"if a man love me, he will keep my words; by his "words" are meant not his doctrines, but his ordinances; the same with his commandments, John 14:21, which he has said, ordered, and commanded to be observed, and which are observed by such who truly love him, and that from a principle of love to him, and with a view to his glory"

John 14:23 Commentaries: Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
John 14:21 [John Gill Commentary]
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them,.... He that has not merely the external revelation of them in the Bible; but has them written on his heart, by the finger of the Spirit of God, and keeps them under the influence of grace and strength received from him:
he it is that loveth me: others may talk of loving Christ, but this is the man that truly does love him; for his observance of Christ's commands is a proof and evidence that he loves him not in word only, but in deed and in truth: and to encourage souls to love and obedience, Christ adds,
he that loveth me, shall be loved of my Father; not that love to is the cause, condition, or motive of the Father's love to his people; nor does his love to them begin when they begin to love Christ; but this expression denotes some further and greater manifestation of the Father's love to such persons, and shows how grateful to the Father are love and obedience to the Son:
and I will love him; which must be understood in the same manner; Christ does not begin to love his people when they begin to love, and obey him; their love and obedience to him, spring from his love to them; which love of his towards them was from everlasting: but this phrase signs a clearer discovery of his love to them, which passeth knowledge; and some fresh mark and token of his affection for them; and which is explained in the next clause:
and will manifest myself to him; not in a visible way, or in a corporeal form, as he did to his disciples after his resurrection; but in a spiritual manner, as when he makes himself known to his people in ordinances, and favours them with communion with him, and they see his beauty, his fulness, his grace and righteousness, his power, and his glory.



John Gill does not speak of obedience in our own strength by our own effort; but rather obedience under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#6
We do not believe that Christ made any effectual atonement for those who are forever damned; we dare not think that the blood of Christ was ever shed with the intention of saving those whom God foreknew never could be saved, and some of whom were even in Hell when Christ, according to some men’s account, died to save them.

C.H. Spurgeons

“Particular Redemption,” http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0181.htm.


A wacko statement by a wacko dude, Spurgeons quite the nut case.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,079
395
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#7
Limited Atonement -- Calvinist Style (Spurgeon was Reformed.)
Spurgeon was wrong.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
5,808
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#8
A wacko statement by a wacko dude, Spurgeons quite the nut case.
No, he was definitely not a "nut case" or a "wacko", but he failed to reject Reformed Theology and Calvinism even though he was well-versed in the Bible. Baptists generally do not hold to Reformed Theology.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#9
Hizikyah did you know that many of the famous calvinists would agree with you on the scriptures you often post on obedience?

Read those verses in the commentaries of the likes of John Gill and he is right there with you.

From John Gill:
"if a man love me, he will keep my words; by his "words" are meant not his doctrines, but his ordinances; the same with his commandments, John 14:21, which he has said, ordered, and commanded to be observed, and which are observed by such who truly love him, and that from a principle of love to him, and with a view to his glory"

John 14:23 Commentaries: Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
Gill was reformed? I did not know that.

(Is Sov going to laugh at me again, for not knowing who is and isn't reformed? lol)
 
May 11, 2014
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#10
Gill was reformed? I did not know that.

(Is Sov going to laugh at me again, for not knowing who is and isn't reformed? lol)
Yeah Gill was.

Most of the guys that show up when you click on commentaries on biblehub are either reformed or methodist.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#11
No, he was definitely not a "nut case" or a "wacko", but he failed to reject Reformed Theology and Calvinism even though he was well-versed in the Bible. Baptists generally do not hold to Reformed Theology.
Believing in reformed theology is a wacked out nut case mind set in my opinion, it's bunch of none sense from folks who struggle with the orginal Theology in so much they call it reformed, there is nothing that needs reforming.
 

Iconoclast

Senior Member
May 27, 2017
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#12
Believing in reformed theology is a wacked out nut case mind set in my opinion, it's bunch of none sense from folks who struggle with the orginal Theology in so much they call it reformed, there is nothing that needs reforming.
a useless post as you cannot begin to discuss the issue....says more about you than them perhaps.Most of the historic church believed these things
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#13
a useless post as you cannot begin to discuss the issue....says more about you than them perhaps.Most of the historic church believed these things
A useless post for your words are meaningless to me, in one ear and out the other.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,282
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#14
Can you elaborate, what do you mean by
there is nothing that needs reforming.
?


Believing in reformed theology is a wacked out nut case mind set in my opinion, it's bunch of none sense from folks who struggle with the orginal Theology in so much they call it reformed, there is nothing that needs reforming.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
6,004
259
83
#15
Gill was reformed? I did not know that.

(Is Sov going to laugh at me again, for not knowing who is and isn't reformed? lol)
John Gill was predecessor to Charles Spurgeon. Also, if you want a commentary that comments on every verse of Scripture, John Gill is the only one who has done this. Others skip portions, usually the portions we want answers on.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
6,004
259
83
#16
Believing in reformed theology is a wacked out nut case mind set in my opinion, it's bunch of none sense from folks who struggle with the orginal Theology in so much they call it reformed, there is nothing that needs reforming.
You've one-upped your last most obtuse and ignorant laden post on here and show clearly you don't even know what Reformed means or what the Reformation actually meant. It means nothing in what you imply above. You have no argument, and rarely bring one other than vitriolic posts borne in ignorance.
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
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#17
Gill was reformed? I did not know that.

(Is Sov going to laugh at me again, for not knowing who is and isn't reformed? lol)

Why would I do that?



Nope. Never laugh at you Sis. With you? Yeah, that is it. I am laughing with you. That's it. Laughing with you.

She's a sucker if she believes that. Ooops!!
 
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Sep 6, 2017
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#18
Can you elaborate, what do you mean by ?
What does the word reform mean?, to reform is to have a epiphany of Sort, a new revelation of what the bible means or what Jesus taught. what reformist teach and believe is not what scripture means.
 
Sep 6, 2017
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#19
You've one-upped your last most obtuse and ignorant laden post on here and show clearly you don't even know what Reformed means or what the Reformation actually meant. It means nothing in what you imply above. You have no argument, and rarely bring one other than vitriolic posts borne in ignorance.
Cool ive one upped it, your wasting your breath I have done written you off as a bad apple a wolf in sheeps clothing ignorant beyond belief.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
3,282
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#20
Well I would have to disagree, to reform means "to make changes in"

If we accept that Reformed theology traces its roots back to the Reformation then the changes were that were made, were in response to the abuses and the corrupt teachings of the Catholic Church.

So it is not a new revelation, but a reformation or change, return to some of the original teachings of the scripture such as sola fide, sola scriptura, solo Christo, sola gratia, Soli Deo Gloria

Surely you co not have a problem with these?


What does the word reform mean?, to reform is to have a epiphany of Sort, a new revelation of what the bible means or what Jesus taught. what reformist teach and believe is not what scripture means.