Listening to John Mac

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Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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#1
Hi all...I have a question or two about John MacArthur ...I have been listening to him over these past days and like what I am hearing , now I have been walking with our LORD for just over two years , so I am looking for preachers to listen to in my quiet time away from the bible , and this is what John said in one of his sermons...We were in Christ before the foundation of the world , we were on the cross with Him , we were in the tomb with Him , and now we are risen with Him...

I find this amazing , a new insight for me , which brings me to ask:confused: , now is here where I am stuck , can someone help me and thank you...Sorry if I come across confused , but this says to me that we have always been with Jesus before He was born on the earth , I have so much growing to do...xox...
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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#2
Can someone join in...Many views , I need help , can you offer some...xox...
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
17,547
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#3
Hi Rosemaryx,
I'm neither for nor against Dr. MacArthur on this matter, but I will encourage you to "examine everything, and hold on to the good" (1 Thess 5:21) and to be like the Bereans (Acts 17:11). No matter who the preacher is, no matter how consistently sound, no matter his take on other matters, check out what he's saying against what the Bible says. Scripture is always the standard against which we are to test the claims people--even famous preachers-- make. You note that you're newish to the faith; as you learn the Word better, you will be able to identify more quickly whether or not someone's message is consistent with Scripture. :)
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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#4
I would say we were not with Him but He knew we were going to be born and knew who was going to be His;

This is YHWH speaking to Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 1:4-5, "Now the word of יהוה came to me, saying, Before I formed you in the belly I knew you, and before you came out of the womb I did set you apart – I appointed you a prophet to nations.”

This is more directly to us:

Ephesians 1:3-5, "Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Messiah, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be set-apart and blameless before Him, in love, having previously ordained us to adoption as sons through יהושע Messiah to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His desire,"

This is just a Psalm I like:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 139, "1, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], You have searched me And know me."2, "You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought from afar."3, "You sift my path and my lying down, And know well all my ways."4, "For there is not a word on my tongue, But see, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], You know it all!"5, "You have closed me in, behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me –"6, "Knowledge too wondrous for me, It is high, I am unable to reach it."7, "Where would I go from Your Spirit? Or where would I flee from Your face?"8, "If I go up into the heavens, You are there; If I make my bed in She’ol, see, You are there."9, "I take the wings of the morning, I dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,"10, "There, too, Your hand would lead me, And Your right hand hold me."11, "If I say, “Darkness shall cover me,” Then night would be light to me;"12, "Even darkness is not dark for You, But night shines as the day – As is darkness, so is light."13, "For You, You possessed my kidneys, You have covered me in my mother’s womb."14, "I give thanks to You, For I am awesomely and wondrously made! Wondrous are Your works, And my being knows it well."15, "My bones were not concealed from You, When I was shaped in a hidden place, Knit together in the depths of the earth."16, "Your eyes saw my unformed body. And in Your book all of them were written, The days they were formed, While none was among them."17, "And how precious are Your thoughts to me, O Yah! How great has been the sum of them!"18, "If I should count them, They would be more than the sand; When I wake up, I am still with You."19, "Oh, that You would kill· the wrong, O Yah! Depart from me, therefore, men of bloodshed!"20, "They speak against You wickedly. Bring Your enemies to naught!"21, "O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], do I not hate them, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?"22, "With a complete hatred I hate them; They have become my enemies."23, "Search me, O Yah, and know my heart; Try me, and know my thoughts;"24, "And see if an idolatrous way is in me, And lead me in the way everlasting."[/FONT]
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
14,350
6,698
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#5
I find this amazing , a new insight for me , which brings me to ask:confused: , now is here where I am stuck , can someone help me and thank you...Sorry if I come across confused , but this says to me that we have always been with Jesus before He was born on the earth , I have so much growing to do...xox...
What MacArthur said should have really been clarified. Since God knows the end from the beginning, He already knew who would believe on the Christ and be saved, and he already predestined them to be glorified with Christ. He also saw -- in His Divine foreknowledge -- that Christ would surely be crucified and died for our sins. But "We were in Christ before the foundation of the world" can only be seen as what was in God's mind through His foreknowledge. It became a reality only after the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#6
Can someone join in...Many views , I need help , can you offer some...xox...
I know I'm supposed to like MacArthur and listen to him a whole bunch, but I'm supposed to exercise and I'm supposed to be washing my dishes right now. So, what I'm supposed to do and what I do do are two different things.

I'd answer, if I knew Mac enough to get what he's talking about in what you posted, but... nada. Nothing. I got nothing. lol

You can nudge Sov, Preach, and Angela (PM them), if you get no response within a few hours from folks who like the guy. But do remember this is Monday, so normal folks, (which I'm not), are all busy working and having a life right now.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,124
3,532
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#7
I would say we were not with Him but He knew we were going to be born and knew who was going to be His;

This is YHWH speaking to Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 1:4-5, "Now the word of יהוה came to me, saying, Before I formed you in the belly I knew you, and before you came out of the womb I did set you apart – I appointed you a prophet to nations.”

This is more directly to us:

Ephesians 1:3-5, "Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Messiah, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be set-apart and blameless before Him, in love, having previously ordained us to adoption as sons through יהושע Messiah to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His desire,"

This is just a Psalm I like:

Psalm 139, "1, O יהוה, You have searched me And know me."2, "You know my sitting down and my rising up; You understand my thought from afar."3, "You sift my path and my lying down, And know well all my ways."4, "For there is not a word on my tongue, But see, O יהוה, You know it all!"5, "You have closed me in, behind and before, And laid Your hand upon me –"6, "Knowledge too wondrous for me, It is high, I am unable to reach it."7, "Where would I go from Your Spirit? Or where would I flee from Your face?"8, "If I go up into the heavens, You are there; If I make my bed in She’ol, see, You are there."9, "I take the wings of the morning, I dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,"10, "There, too, Your hand would lead me, And Your right hand hold me."11, "If I say, “Darkness shall cover me,” Then night would be light to me;"12, "Even darkness is not dark for You, But night shines as the day – As is darkness, so is light."13, "For You, You possessed my kidneys, You have covered me in my mother’s womb."14, "I give thanks to You, For I am awesomely and wondrously made! Wondrous are Your works, And my being knows it well."15, "My bones were not concealed from You, When I was shaped in a hidden place, Knit together in the depths of the earth."16, "Your eyes saw my unformed body. And in Your book all of them were written, The days they were formed, While none was among them."17, "And how precious are Your thoughts to me, O Yah! How great has been the sum of them!"18, "If I should count them, They would be more than the sand; When I wake up, I am still with You."19, "Oh, that You would kill· the wrong, O Yah! Depart from me, therefore, men of bloodshed!"20, "They speak against You wickedly. Bring Your enemies to naught!"21, "O יהוה, do I not hate them, who hate You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?"22, "With a complete hatred I hate them; They have become my enemies."23, "Search me, O Yah, and know my heart; Try me, and know my thoughts;"24, "And see if an idolatrous way is in me, And lead me in the way everlasting."
Love this...xox...I need some help...Only God can help me...Love the psalms...Feel like I need to break away from ALL media, and just spend time with my LORD , I have so a question to ask , and do not know who to to ask...I have fallen into an old habit tonight , it is not drowning me , praise be to God , I need some human guidance through our LORD jesus Christ...xox...May I add , I am a sinner who GOD through our LORD Jesus Christ saved a wretch like me , I am mumbling , I can not lie...I made this thread because of John Mac , and now I have turned it to me , how selfish , am sorry...xox...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#8
I'd need the context of his statements to see what he "really" means.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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#9
I'd need the context of his statements to see what he "really" means.
Hi Loctus...I do not know how to post the youtube links...All Ii know while I was listening that he said we were in Christ before the foundations , we were with Christ as He was crucified , we were with Christ as He was buried , and we are risen in Christ and we are always hidden in Christ...I made a mistake in my original post , I have now been walking with our LORD for three years...I still am getting my head around what he said , there is much I have to learn , this is why I made the post...xox...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
684
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#10
Hi Loctus...I do not know how to post the youtube links...All Ii know while I was listening that he said we were in Christ before the foundations , we were with Christ as He was crucified , we were with Christ as He was buried , and we are risen in Christ and we are always hidden in Christ...I made a mistake in my original post , I have now been walking with our LORD for three years...I still am getting my head around what he said , there is much I have to learn , this is why I made the post...xox...
Rose - there are a number of issues with what he is saying, one being according to Paul we are "crucified with him" at baptism is the way I'm seeing this:

Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,124
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#11
What MacArthur said should have really been clarified. Since God knows the end from the beginning, He already knew who would believe on the Christ and be saved, and he already predestined them to be glorified with Christ. He also saw -- in His Divine foreknowledge -- that Christ would surely be crucified and died for our sins. But "We were in Christ before the foundation of the world" can only be seen as what was in God's mind through His foreknowledge. It became a reality only after the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.
So does that mean John Mac is right in what he has said...xox...
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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#12
I know I'm supposed to like MacArthur and listen to him a whole bunch, but I'm supposed to exercise and I'm supposed to be washing my dishes right now. So, what I'm supposed to do and what I do do are two different things.

I'd answer, if I knew Mac enough to get what he's talking about in what you posted, but... nada. Nothing. I got nothing. lol

You can nudge Sov, Preach, and Angela (PM them), if you get no response within a few hours from folks who like the guy. But do remember this is Monday, so normal folks, (which I'm not), are all busy working and having a life right now.
Lyn...If I could get by whay what you are saying , I do not understand what you are saying lol...Is he right or not...xox...
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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#13
Rose - there are a number of issues with what he is saying, one being according to Paul we are "crucified with him" at baptism is the way I'm seeing this:

Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Rom 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

Rom 6:6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
But is that not Mac saying...All these things we are before the foundations ...God knew who are His...xox...
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#14
Lyn...If I could get by whay what you are saying , I do not understand what you are saying lol...Is he right or not...xox...


But SovereignGrace, Preacher4, and Angela would know. I'm pretty sure they all like him enough to listen to him.

(And, btw, a Calvinist can say, "God is great" and Neh will disagree, so don't count on him helping you.)
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#15
But is that not Mac saying...All these things we are before the foundations ...God knew who are His...xox...
God knows everything always. He doesn't even have to departmentalize. He truly knows everything always. And he's outside time, (as well as inside time), and the creator of time. PLUS he's always everywhere always. AND, he created everything and runs everything always too. (Omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent.)

So, it makes kind of sense that we were always his since his always is true always -- not governed by time or space. So, seems like maybe that's right, but again, I don't know MacArthur enough to know if that's what he was getting at. And I'm limited in my knowledge of how to describe the infinite, so I honestly don't know.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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adelaiderevival.com
#16
Read Romans 6 water baptism by full immersion and what it means to both us and to the Lord

Romans 7 is about the conflict that begins between sinful desires and the weakness of the flesh (our carnal selves) - O wretched man that I am who will deliver me from this body of death?

Romans 8 is about the Spirit-filled Christian overcoming this through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit and the love of God

Romans 12 is on Christian living.

Don't overcomplicate your walk with too much theology. We are to be like children keeping it simple and learning of love, kindness, gentleness, self-control, faithfulness, being prayerful always.

The epistles are your greatest guide to Christian living - for in them are instructions and guidance to disciples on how to stop sinning and on how to live to righteousness that is pleasing to God.

Remember being a Christian is a child parent relationship.
Our Father who are in heaven ...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#17
But is that not Mac saying...All these things we are before the foundations ...God knew who are His...xox...
I think what he's doing is mixing and matching. Paul states that at baptism is where our identification with Christ's crucifixion occurs, not at the "foundation" of the world.

We ourselves do not suffer crucifixion on a cross, unless we were one of those unfortunates of early Rome.

This to me is where some theologians go overboard in over explaining theological issues.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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#18


But SovereignGrace, Preacher4, and Angela would know. I'm pretty sure they all like him enough to listen to him.

(And, btw, a Calvinist can say, "God is great" and Neh will disagree, so don't count on him helping you.)
But he sounds so sound Lyn...Who are we to listen to after the word...I mean , there are preachers who are are given the word to preach , everyone seems to have something against a preater...I am finding my way to listen to sound doctrine , and I know that man will fail against the WORD...But I am trying to be fed the word of God in times that Ii am unable to read , so who should we listen to , for it seems that there is always someone who comes against those who who we listen to :confused:...

I read the Word , but I need human interaction , who shall we listen to lol , it seems lots have different opinions , why can we not just have the Word of God spread to all of us to understand , why so many diverts , what are we missing for all to have so many disagreements...Now I am just waffling , sorry...xox...
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
36,229
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#19
I think what he's doing is mixing and matching. Paul states that at baptism is where our identification with Christ's crucifixion occurs, not at the "foundation" of the world.

We ourselves do not suffer crucifixion on a cross, unless we were one of those unfortunates of early Rome.

This to me is where some theologians go overboard in over explaining theological issues.
It is symbolic language, as in, we crucify the old man, the same being how we pick up our cross daily. That is how I would understand being on the cross with Christ. But having said that, I would not say that LOL. Johnny Mac is not someone I really listen to, though I have heard him. :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#20
But is that not Mac saying...All these things we are before the foundations ...God knew who are His...xox...
That is the "U" of Calvin's unconditional lection in TULIP.