Literal reading of Genesis 1&2

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trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
113
#1
Some people read Genesis 1 and 2 literally and base various teachings on it (flat earth, solid dome, young earth). Basically, they usually come with some kind of scientific conspiracy against God to keep themselves in their faith.

I have some biblical questions about this view:

1. Gen 2:4 says it was all created in 1 day - so, was it 6x 24h days or 1 day?
2. Universe, the planet and covering waters and angels were created before the first day?
3. In Gen 1, man was created after animals, in Gen 2, man was created before animals. Literal days order does not seem to work, there.
4. In Gen 2, Adam had to name all animals and got lonely (impossible to happen in 24 hours)
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
118
43
#2
I will add another spin to this.

Another reason I believe Jeremiah 4:23-27 is speaking about Genesis 1:2 (meaning Genesis 1:1 speaks of a completed finished earth full of life including humans before Adam) is...WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE that claims God created the earth in Genesis 1:2 to be void-formless-under water?

The fact the earth was here, was without form and void, and was under water makes NO SENSE from God created the earth?

Why would God create the earth to begin with under water knowing He would have to remove the water?
Why would God create the earth (LAND MASS) with water in the first place?
God is the greatest engineer, the greatest scientist, the greatest mathematician, SO WHY WOULD HE CREATE THE EARTH UNDER WATER?

That makes absolutely NO SENSE for the ULTIMATE SUPREME BEING to create earth under water, none at all!!
THERE IS NO LOGIC TO IT AT ALL!!
And God is 100% logic!!

This is why I believe Genesis 1:1 is a finished completed earth with life, and as Jeremiah explains God destroyed it with water until it became void and without form. Then His anger receded and He revisited earth under water and without form. And from there, He said, Let there be LIGHT and began the recreation because this time it included the lineage of Adam to Christ!!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
113
#3
I will add another spin to this.

Another reason I believe Jeremiah 4:23-27 is speaking about Genesis 1:2 (meaning Genesis 1:1 speaks of a completed finished earth full of life including humans before Adam) is...WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE that claims God created the earth in Genesis 1:2 to be void-formless-under water?

The fact the earth was here, was without form and void, and was under water makes NO SENSE from God created the earth?

Why would God create the earth to begin with under water knowing He would have to remove the water?
Why would God create the earth (LAND MASS) with water in the first place?
God is the greatest engineer, the greatest scientist, the greatest mathematician, SO WHY WOULD HE CREATE THE EARTH UNDER WATER?

That makes absolutely NO SENSE for the ULTIMATE SUPREME BEING to create earth under water, none at all!!
THERE IS NO LOGIC TO IT AT ALL!!
And God is 100% logic!!

This is why I believe Genesis 1:1 is a finished completed earth with life, and as Jeremiah explains God destroyed it with water until it became void and without form. Then His anger receded and He revisited earth under water and without form. And from there, He said, Let there be LIGHT and began the recreation because this time it included the lineage of Adam to Christ!!
I do not think there is a need to put a gap after verse 1. But my questions are to YEC and literal reading, not to gap theory proponents...
 
P

pjharrison

Guest
#4
Some people read Genesis 1 and 2 literally and base various teachings on it (flat earth, solid dome, young earth). Basically, they usually come with some kind of scientific conspiracy against God to keep themselves in their faith.

I have some biblical questions about this view:

1. Gen 2:4 says it was all created in 1 day - so, was it 6x 24h days or 1 day?
This is what Gen:2:4 says, gen: 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
2. Universe, the planet and covering waters and angels were created before the first day?
God doesn't mention any planets
3. In Gen 1, man was created after animals, in Gen 2, man was created before animals. Literal days order does not seem to work, there.
Animals were not mentioned in Gen:2
4. In Gen 2, Adam had to name all animals and got lonely (impossible to happen in 24 hours)
This all was done in 6 days. The seventh day God rest.
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
1,259
1,253
113
63
#5
Some people read Genesis 1 and 2 literally and base various teachings on it (flat earth, solid dome, young earth). Basically, they usually come with some kind of scientific conspiracy against God to keep themselves in their faith.

I have some biblical questions about this view:
Hi trofimus, I'll take a shot at answering these.
1. Gen 2:4 says it was all created in 1 day - so, was it 6x 24h days or 1 day?
Here is the verse in question:

.........Genesis 2
.........4 ..This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in* the day that the LORD God made earth
.........and heaven.


*("in" .. not "on" .. the day)

Perhaps this may prove useful as well:

.........John 8
.........56 ..“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”


Which "day" of the Lord's 33 years did Abraham rejoice in?

2. Universe, the planet and covering waters and angels were created before the first day?
We know the angels were there when God laid the foundations of the earth .. Job 38:4-7.

3. In Gen 1, man was created after animals, in Gen 2, man was created before animals. Literal days order does not seem to work, there.
Genesis 2:19 is a statement of fact, a summary/restating of how part of the Creation was accomplished/Who it was accomplished by, not a reordering of the chronological events from Chapter 1.

4. In Gen 2, Adam had to name all animals and got lonely (impossible to happen in 24 hours)
24 hours?

~Deut
 
P

pjharrison

Guest
#6
This all was done in 6 days. The seventh day God rest.
This all was done in 6 days. The seventh day God rest.
1. It wasn't done in one day. It's like saying back in the day when God created the heavens and the earth.
It seems like you purposely misinterpreted it.

2.It mention stars, but no planets.

3.Genesis 2 don't even mention animals.

Creation was done in 6 days and God rest on the seventh.

It really seems that you purposely twisted the creation. I know you understand it better than that.:confused:
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
118
43
#7
I do not think there is a need to put a gap after verse 1. But my questions are to YEC and literal reading, not to gap theory proponents...


I am only suggesting that in the actual Hebrew scripture (Genesis 1:1), Torah teachers teach that there was a period of life before Adam/ours called "The Beginning." They claim verse 1 of Genesis 1 indicates that God created the heaven(s)(plural) and the earth, means at this point of time referring to this entire scripture (Genesis 1:1), that creation stopped and life existed.

And then verse 2 indicates no life and the finished earth is void and under water.

So they ask, what happened that verse 1 we have life and a completed earth and verse 2 we have nothing in complete darkness?

This is where Jeremiah fills and answers that question.

Now, they do not call this a gap or gap theory. They believe it represents 2 periods God dealing with mankind. The first period of life on earth called, "The Beginning," and the second period of life on earth called, "Recreation." They still are looking for their Messiah and believe at the 6,000 year mark he will appear to the Jews. And it is through Adam's lineage their Messiah will come. This is why they believe God recreated after the period of "The Beginning," for their Messiah.

We of course know that Adam's lineage leads to the Messiah, Christ.

But nonetheless, there is no gap or gap theory, the Hebrew/Jews understand it was two (2) separate periods where God dealt with humanity!!
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#8
Why would God create the earth to begin with under water knowing He would have to remove the water?

Do you realize the transportation costs that would have been incurred if water had to be spacetrucked in from Jasherus 77 not addition labor costs?

Why would God create the earth (LAND MASS) with water in the first place?

To prevent the land mass from contamination from direct exposure to the expanse.

As the the outer shell of the waters would remain frozen as the cloud of gases began raising up from the earth, the outer shell of the frozen waters would remain in tact until the critical height had been met and pass ensuring that the necessary height requirement for the surface protection before the outer shell of frozen waters would which would begin breaking up and falling back to earth leaving a uncontaminated landmass by a well developed firmament above it.

God is the greatest engineer, the greatest scientist, the greatest mathematician, SO WHY WOULD HE CREATE THE EARTH UNDER WATER?

Guess he put the earth under the Holy Seas because when men become incapable of governing themselves then it should be of little consequence from what quarter he comes from.
Maybe so you see the Holy Ghost walk upon the frozen waters that covered the earth in Genesis 1:2 since even light can't walked upon the face of the waters without sinking in the water unless the water is frozen.
( See John 15:27)
 

rlm68

Active member
Jul 23, 2018
486
118
43
#9
Maybe so you see the Holy Ghost walk upon the frozen waters that covered the earth in Genesis 1:2 since even light can't walked upon the face of the waters without sinking in the water unless the water is frozen.
( See John 15:27)


The KJV is very misleading of Genesis 1:2 (your reference to walking upon the water).

Here is what the HEBREW translation claims concerning Genesis 1:2
2 The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water.

The Hebrew claims the Spirit (capital S, Holy Spirit of God = God's Spirit) hovered over the surface of the water.

Big difference between walking and hovering...but then again, big difference between KJV (4th hand translation) and the Hebrew (first hand translation)!!
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
113
#10
Hi trofimus, I'll take a shot at answering these.

Here is the verse in question:

.........Genesis 2
.........4 ..This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in* the day that the LORD God made earth
.........and heaven.


*("in" .. not "on" .. the day)

Perhaps this may prove useful as well:

.........John 8
.........56 ..“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”


Which "day" of the Lord's 33 years did Abraham rejoice in?


We know the angels were there when God laid the foundations of the earth .. Job 38:4-7.


Genesis 2:19 is a statement of fact, a summary/restating of how part of the Creation was accomplished/Who it was accomplished by, not a reordering of the chronological events from Chapter 1.


24 hours?

~Deut
Gen 2 says that Adam was created first, then animals and then, because he found no help, Eve.
Gen 1 says that animals were created before Adam.
--- its neither summary, nor restatement. Its a contradiction, when read literally.

It seems that in the rest you agree with me.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
113
#11
the Hebrew/Jews understand it was two (2) separate periods where God dealt with humanity!!
What is your source? Which ancient Hebrew authors said that?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
1,780
513
113
#12
S``
The KJV is very misleading of Genesis 1:2 (your reference to walking upon the water).

Here is what the HEBREW translation claims concerning Genesis 1:2
2 The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water.

The Hebrew claims the Spirit (capital S, Holy Spirit of God = God's Spirit) hovered over the surface of the water.

Big difference between walking and hovering...but then again, big difference between KJV (4th hand translation) and the Hebrew (first hand translation)!!
If we read the first chapters of Genesis in ancient Hebrew, it says something quite different from the way it is translated.

Creation is said to be "in the beginning". Scripture does not tell us when this beginning was, it could be a day or years. In the beginning creation started by converting a mass that was "chosek", an word meaning blindness, misery, evil. The first day that is recorded God gave this mass "owr" that is translated as light. This word means everything that is the opposite of chosek, all goodness. It had nothing to do with sunlight.

The light as we know it was created on the fourth day, and the Hebrew word used was marmot. That word means that the creation was of the objects that give off light.

If there was life before creation, it was dark and evil.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
1,958
546
113
#13
Some people read Genesis 1 and 2 literally and base various teachings on it (flat earth, solid dome, young earth). Basically, they usually come with some kind of scientific conspiracy against God to keep themselves in their faith.

I have some biblical questions about this view:

1. Gen 2:4 says it was all created in 1 day - so, was it 6x 24h days or 1 day?
2. Universe, the planet and covering waters and angels were created before the first day?
3. In Gen 1, man was created after animals, in Gen 2, man was created before animals. Literal days order does not seem to work, there.
4. In Gen 2, Adam had to name all animals and got lonely (impossible to happen in 24 hours)
I asked God to explain it to me. His explanation was way better than anything written or spoken by man. Spend a day fasting, and a day meditating on it, then PM me and we will compare notes.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#14
The KJV is very misleading of Genesis 1:2 (your reference to walking upon the water).

Here is what the HEBREW translation claims concerning Genesis 1:2
2 The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water.

The Hebrew claims the Spirit (capital S, Holy Spirit of God = God's Spirit) hovered over the surface of the water.

Big difference between walking and hovering...but then again, big difference between KJV (4th hand translation) and the Hebrew (first hand translation)!!
Big difference between hovering and moving too.

But wait, God is a Spirit which is pnuema or moving air then the Spirit of God must be the breeze of moving air so how could it have been hovering. Kinda ironic that the Jews would say the Son of God was just hanging there above the water.

Then again, if the Spirit of God is omnipresent, he wouldn't have been hovering above but would have been everywhere including upon the surface of the frozen water that covered the face of the earth in Genesis 1:2.

But anyway, even light can't walk upon the the surface of liquid water because light permeates below the surface level like the feet of anyone in the flesh trying to walk on the surface.

Well, thanks for clarifying that for me.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
1,958
546
113
#15
Big difference between hovering and moving too.

But wait, God is a Spirit which is pnuema or moving air then the Spirit of God must be the breeze of moving air so how could it have been hovering. Kinda ironic that the Jews would say the Son of God was just hanging there above the water.

Then again, if the Spirit of God is omnipresent, he wouldn't have been hovering above but would have been everywhere including upon the surface of the frozen water that covered the face of the earth in Genesis 1:2.

But anyway, even light can't walk upon the the surface of liquid water because light permeates below the surface level like the feet of anyone in the flesh trying to walk on the surface.

Well, thanks for clarifying that for me.
Light is just a form of electromagnetism. The terminology that is used in the Bible is given to try to explain science, unscientifically. So Spirit, pneuma, we all try to conceptualize, but can’t, because instead of attempting to understand what was written, we litereralize it based on our definition of the word. People’s unwillingness to read the Bible metaphorically, won’t understand it.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
113
#16
I asked God to explain it to me. His explanation was way better than anything written or spoken by man. Spend a day fasting, and a day meditating on it, then PM me and we will compare notes.
I do not want to PM you. If you have some special view, write it here.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
1,958
546
113
#17
I do not want to PM you. If you have some special view, write it here.
I’m curious as to whether the Holy Spirit would teach it to you similar as it was taught to me. I’ve been on this sight long enough to conclude that most are satisfied with a basic understanding of scripture taught by men. If you want the Truth, you have to go to the source. Then you can see what the scriptures are actually teaching.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
113
#18
I’m curious as to whether the Holy Spirit would teach it to you similar as it was taught to me. I’ve been on this sight long enough to conclude that most are satisfied with a basic understanding of scripture taught by men. If you want the Truth, you have to go to the source. Then you can see what the scriptures are actually teaching.
If you want to share your views here, do it. And you will see then.
 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
1,958
546
113
#19
From my experience people come here to argue their opinions. There is an Asian saying, “When the student is ready, the teacher appears.” There are no students here, only teachers. If somebody wants to know the truth, do what I said. The only one who can teach it is the Holy Spirit. Everyone else just expounds, their spin on fifth hand interpretation. Be blessed.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
779
113
#20
Hungry, your view is your opinion too. On the same level as our opinions and we can judge your opinion as you can judge ours.

if you are not willing to give it or if you want to give it but not to be judged by us, then there is no point in posting mysteriously about some secret knowledge you have, in this thread.