Lord, Lord!

mailmandan · Mar 19, 2015

John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. Certain people seem to confuse God's will for us to become saved with God's will for us after we have been saved. These many people in Matthew 7:22 thought they were doing God's will, but God's will is not salvation by works. They had the wrong foundation.

MikkoAinasoja · Mar 19, 2015

mailmandan said:

If the man truly believe he should also do, according to his faith.

46. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47. Every one that cometh unto me, and heareth my words, and doeth them, I will show you to whom he is like: 48. he is like a man building a house, who digged and went deep, and laid a foundation upon the rock: and when a flood arose, the stream brake against that house, and could not shake it: because it had been well builded. 49. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that built a house upon the earth without a foundation; against which the stream brake, and straightway it fell in; and the ruin of that house was great. (Luke 6:46-49)

So do not be like the man who have hear the word, but not do the word.

pem · Mar 19, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

A good post to those who doubt OSAS . Their doubt in the promises of Christs Salvation will be on full display come Judgement day because these poor souls are going around dressed in the fig-leaves of self-righteousness whereas those who are OSAS are clothed in the Blood soaked Robes of Christ bleached white.

What folk fail to realize is that Judgement begins in the Church of professing believers

1 Peter 4:17

pem · Mar 19, 2015

mailmandan said:

True OSAS . Are those who doubt Christs message actually Christians ? I dont know how they can be if they doubt OSAS. Do you ? If so, how is it possible ?

Jeff_56 · Mar 19, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

those who had/have the treasure in heaven are those who have already given up their earthly possessions and life and all
to follow Jesus, exactly like the disciples who followed Jesus and did not leave from Him while He was on earth in the flesh, the Messiah Savior King in the flesh....

some people, most , keep clinging to their earthly religion, or possessions, and habits, as if they had that choice AND could still be a disciple of Jesus-- but as all the Word indicates, no one can love the things of

the world and still be a friend of God. where a persons valuables are, that's where his heart is. whoever or whatever a person works for every day , they are his or her boss/ god/ controller....

whatever you do, do with thanksgiving to God and in all things serving Him seeking to do as He Says -- be DOERS of the Word and not hearers only, because the hearers are NOT JUSTIFIED unless they are DOERS.....

the false gospel prevalent on this forum over the other false gospels is the one that says "2 commandments" means we don't have to DO THE WORD any more. and they redefine DOING THE WORD so that it means nothing thus making void in their lives the WORD OF GOD.

DesiredHaven · Mar 19, 2015

GandalfTheWhite said:

And that verse also agrees in the same. All I ever see is the pitting of the scriptures against the other rather then the skill to show any harmony between them. I look for that in a decent teacher, I might not be one but that is what I look for in one.

Reborn · Mar 19, 2015

DesiredHaven said:

[SUP]1 John 2:27
27 [/SUP]But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

I'm guessing most teachers don't like this one.
Kills business.

DesiredHaven · Mar 19, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

The rich (in this world) have their treasure (even great possessions) on earth and these are charged by Paul here to be willing to distribute as with the rich young ruler

1 Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

1 Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;

1 Ti 6:19 Laying up instore for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

The rich young ruler was to have pity upon the poor in such a readiness of distribution

Even as it says,

Prov 19:17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD;
and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

Which is the same as lending to the LORD
(and the LORD will repay such a man again)

Whereas here....If you go back and read this guy in Luke 12:21 increased in goods tore down his barn to build bigger ones to store all his goods (for himself) his soul was required of him

Luke 12:21 So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

Rich towards God

Prov 19:17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD;

Treasure on earth or treasure in heaven, in one of two ways we store up for ourselves (in one place or another)

So theres he that hath great possessions yet really has nothing at all and he who has nothing but possesses all things. Theres this cool twist betwen the two in there as well.

DesiredHaven · Mar 19, 2015

Reborn said:

They were truly about their Fathers business

They even warned about others making merchandise of them

MikkoAinasoja · Mar 20, 2015

Jeff_56 said:

those who had/have the treasure in heaven are those who have already given up their earthly possessions and life and all
to follow Jesus, exactly like the disciples who followed Jesus and did not leave from Him while He was on earth in the flesh, the Messiah Savior King in the flesh....

some people, most , keep clinging to their earthly religion, or possessions, and habits, as if they had that choice AND could still be a disciple of Jesus-- but as all the Word indicates, no one can love the things of

the world and still be a friend of God. where a persons valuables are, that's where his heart is. whoever or whatever a person works for every day , they are his or her boss/ god/ controller....

whatever you do, do with thanksgiving to God and in all things serving Him seeking to do as He Says -- be DOERS of the Word and not hearers only, because the hearers are NOT JUSTIFIED unless they are DOERS.....

the false gospel prevalent on this forum over the other false gospels is the one that says "2 commandments" means we don't have to DO THE WORD any more. and they redefine DOING THE WORD so that it means nothing thus making void in their lives the WORD OF GOD.

Have you Jeff do that, given your extra possession, for good works of God? And are you still doing that?

SeaBass · Mar 20, 2015

Willie-T said:

God's will does not require one to repent, Lk 13:3,5? confess, Mat 10:32,33? Be baptized, MK 16:16?

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matt 7:21)

The Lord's will requires DOING, an action.

mailmandan · Mar 20, 2015

SeaBass said:

Repentance actually precedes believing on Jesus. Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Those who believe on Jesus have already repented and those who truly repented believe on Jesus. Repentance and believing on Him are inseparable in receiving salvation.

In Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven. Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and believe on Him for salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him (John 3:16; 14:6). The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus NOT mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. *Water baptism FOLLOWS saving faith in Christ (Acts 10:43-47).

Choosing to believe on Him is doing the will of My Father who is in heaven. John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes on him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. No further action is required to receive eternal life. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not on the merits of our works (Romans 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:8,9).

The Lord's will requires believing on Him to receive eternal life. Either we are saved through believing on Him or else we are saved by works/actions. Believing on works is not believing on Him. Either Christ did it all or else we did some of it. You can't have it both ways.

SeaBass · Mar 21, 2015

mailmandan said:

Repentance actually precedes believing on Jesus. Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe the gospel. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Those who believe on Jesus have already repented and those who truly repented believe on Jesus. Repentance and believing on Him are inseparable in receiving salvation.

In Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven. Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and believe on Him for salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him (John 3:16; 14:6). The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus NOT mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics. *Water baptism FOLLOWS saving faith in Christ (Acts 10:43-47).

Choosing to believe on Him is doing the will of My Father who is in heaven. John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes on him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. No further action is required to receive eternal life. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not on the merits of our works (Romans 3:24-26; Ephesians 2:8,9).

The Lord's will requires believing on Him to receive eternal life. Either we are saved through believing on Him or else we are saved by works/actions. Believing on works is not believing on Him. Either Christ did it all or else we did some of it. You can't have it both ways.

As long as one remains an unbeliever he will never repent of his sins. Those that remain impenitent will be lost, Lk 13:3,5; Rom 2:4,5. Therefore all the belief only in the world can never save an impenitent believer.

Mt 10:32,33 (along with Rom 10:9,10) clearly show that that will not confess Christ will not be saved. Again, all the belef only in the world will not save one who refuses to confess Christ.

Mk 16:16 the conjunction "and" ties believeth to baptized making the two inseparable. Therefore if one does not have to be baptized to be saved neither does he have to believe to be saved.

Mt 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

He that DOETH the will of the Father. Doing is an action, a work.

Jesus did NOT say "he that "worketh not" the will of the Father. Further proof of how Rom 4:5 (and Eph 2:9) are taken out of context.

Jeff_56 · Mar 21, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

Father. Father. ....... not every one........ not every one....... can call Him Father.
[h=1] 1 John 3 King James Version (KJV)[/h] 3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

psychomom · Mar 21, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

i think you may be missing the point of what the Lord Jesus is saying here.
look at the whole chapter, but especially the verses that come after this:

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

see where their focus is?
is it on what they do, or what God in Christ has done?

the Lord Jesus is the Narrow Gate.
the Lord Jesus is the Rock...the Firm Foundation.

Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit. (Jn 19:31)

DesiredHaven · Mar 21, 2015

psychomom said:

His Spirit was given up there and it says also,

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy

And here they mention this

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,

And again here Jesus says this,

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

And again here on the same day they say

On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not... cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’

Jesus said building on the rock was hearing his words and doing them, they do acknowledge him as Lord, Lord, and he makes that clear that its the same that would (but not enter) as he also speaks of "doing" the will of the Father. James speaks of being a hearer only (not a doer) deceiving only ourselves. So they are acknowledging him as Lord though and we are created in Him unto good works, which arent the problem, neither prophesying in his name (after it was finished, and he was glorfied, the Spirit was poured out to the same effect) or even casting out devils (which is a sign of them that believe). Jesus points out what it was in respects to them working iniquity in the picture, whereas Paul told them to depart from iniquity (those who name his name). For me, I see Paul already understood that if you didnt that Jesus would say depart from him (to those continued to work it).

The scriptures mesh, they acknowledge him as Lord, he said many would say, "Lord Lord", he tells them what signs would follow those that actually believe, and they werent rebuked for anything that they named but the working of iniquity that he named (and that Paul told them to depart from).

Jeff_56 · Mar 21, 2015

did you read your own post ? and the scripture there?

it is not a matter of focus, but see what is there>>> those who work LAWLESSNESS have no inheritance in heaven.

LAWLESSNESS like is practiced and preached and posted all over this forum.

and verified over and over and over again all through the Word of Yahweh, OT and NT. Old Covenant and New Covenant. before Jesus' birth, death and resurrection and after Jesus' birth , death and resurrection.

those who are LAWLESS will have no part in the kingdom of heaven. they are all rejected.

psychomom said:

mailmandan · Mar 22, 2015

SeaBass said:

You mean as long as one remains an atheist (unbeliever in that sense) he will never repent of his sins. Once an atheist comes to believe in the existence of God and that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, then he can come to realize that his sins have separated him from God and now he can repent "change his mind" about his sinful position and need for Christ to save him then place his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Only those who have truly repented believe and only those who truly believe have repented. All the mere "mental assent" belief in the existence of God and in the historical facts about Christ apart from repenting and believing the gospel can never save someone who refuses to repent and believe the gospel. Saving belief is not without repentance so it's not belief only in the sense that you are talking about---empty profession of faith/dead faith.

Those who will not confess Christ are those who do not believe. Again, the broader context of Matthew 10:32,33 relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven. This does not equate to believe the gospel but still lost until you round up a group of people at Walmart and confess Christ to them. In regards to Romans 10:9-10, *notice in Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth he confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. Belief and confession are not two separate steps to salvation here but are chronologically together. *What about someone who is unable to speak (is moot). How can they confess with their mouth? Such a person would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10. *Also, how can confession be made unto salvation if a person still needs to receive water baptism afterwards in order to become saved?

False. Jesus clarifies the first clause with "but he who does not believe will be condemned. It's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism. If believe and baptism are inseparable in receiving salvation, then why did Jesus forget to mention baptism in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6;40,47; 11:25,26?

Again, in John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes on him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. No further action is required to receive eternal life. Believing on Him is doing the will of the Father. That may not be enough action to satisfy you, but that's what the Lord said. You confuse doing the will of the Father by believing on Him with further actions/works that FOLLOW.

Believing on Him is doing the will of the Father in receiving eternal life (John 6:40). This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent (John 6:29). Is that not enough action/work for you? Through believing in Him, we are trusting in Another's works/actions (Christ's finished work of redemption).

Jesus clearly stated what the will of the Father is for us to receive eternal life through BELIEVEING ON HIM (John 6:40) and "not on our works" as you do. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness. No contradiction here. Just you misinterpreting scripture again. There is nothing to take out of context in Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:9. Does not work but believe on Him...saved through faith, not works is crystal clear. You just can't accept the truth because of your COC indoctrination.

Willie-T · Mar 22, 2015

mailmandan said:

You mean as long as one remains an atheist (unbeliever in that sense) he will never repent of his sins. Once an atheist comes to believe in the existence of God and that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, then he can come to realize that his sins have separated him from God and now he can repent "change his mind" about his sinful position and need for Christ to save him then place his faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Only those who have truly repented believe and only those who truly believe have repented. All the mere "mental assent" belief in the existence of God and in the historical facts about Christ apart from repenting and believing the gospel can never save someone who refuses to repent and believe the gospel. Saving belief is not without repentance so it's not belief only in the sense that you are talking about---empty profession of faith/dead faith.

Those who will not confess Christ are those who do not believe. Again, the broader context of Matthew 10:32,33 relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him in every city they visited. We might paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven. This does not equate to believe the gospel but still lost until you round up a group of people at Walmart and confess Christ to them. In regards to Romans 10:9-10, *notice in Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth he confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess. Belief and confession are not two separate steps to salvation here but are chronologically together. *What about someone who is unable to speak (is moot). How can they confess with their mouth? Such a person would remain lost according to your erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10. *Also, how can confession be made unto salvation if a person still needs to receive water baptism afterwards in order to become saved?

False. Jesus clarifies the first clause with "but he who does not believe will be condemned. It's the lack of belief that causes condemnation and not the lack of baptism. If believe and baptism are inseparable in receiving salvation, then why did Jesus forget to mention baptism in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6;40,47; 11:25,26?

Again, in John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes on him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. No further action is required to receive eternal life. Believing on Him is doing the will of the Father. That may not be enough action to satisfy you, but that's what the Lord said. You confuse doing the will of the Father by believing on Him with further actions/works that FOLLOW.

Believing on Him is doing the will of the Father in receiving eternal life (John 6:40). This is the work of God that you believe in Him whom He has sent (John 6:29). Is that not enough action/work for you? Through believing in Him, we are trusting in Another's works/actions (Christ's finished work of redemption).

Jesus clearly stated what the will of the Father is for us to receive eternal life through BELIEVEING ON HIM (John 6:40) and "not on our works" as you do. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness. No contradiction here. Just you misinterpreting scripture again. There is nothing to take out of context in Romans 4:5 and Ephesians 2:9. Does not work but believe on Him...saved through faith, not works is crystal clear. You just can't accept the truth because of your COC indoctrination.

It's good to read someone who engages their brain while studying. Thank you for such a good post.

mailmandan · Mar 22, 2015

Willie-T said:

Thank you for your encouraging words brother and God bless you!

Lord, Lord!

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