Lordship Salvation is false teaching

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JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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Yet you so rarely actually refer to the Bible . . .

There is no spinning on our side. Here's the message of grace in a nutshell, broken down into its very simplest form:


  • Believe on the One God sent, receiving the gifts of forgiveness, righteousness, and New Life
  • Love one another
  • We love God because He first loved us
  • Grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness
  • Love is the Fruit of (produced by) the Spirit, which we bear

Boom, done.

Add the ingredient of the Work of Christ to the above passages. Both passages point to the Good News of the Work of Christ.

Yet you insist on trying to turn it into Bad News by making it all about judgement and not all about the Work of CHRIST who saves us completely from that judgement.

-JGIG
That might be the sanitized public face of hyper grace, but it's definitely not what's going on under the hood.


So let me get this straight, HRFTD:


  • You attack the message of God's Grace, posting what your understanding of it is
  • We clearly communicate to you what we actually believe/teach
  • Then you say, "No, that's not what you really believe, I know what you really believe [because evidently HRFTD is a mind reader and can determine the intent of all of our hearts and we're all always lying to him anyway] and you're all gnostic heretics."


jesus_facepalm.jpg


 
Sep 4, 2012
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So let me get this straight, HRFTD:
  • You attack the message of God's Grace, posting what your understanding of it is
  • We clearly communicate to you what we actually believe/teach
  • Then you say, "No, that's not what you really believe, I know what you really believe [because evidently HRFTD is a mind reader and can determine the intent of all of our hearts and we're all always lying to him anyway] and you're all gnostic heretics."
We're experts at detecting this game now (because it's been done so much). I commented on hyper grace. You took it personal. Sorry, not going there.
 
D

Depleted

Guest

♦ Lordship “salvation” Defined

By the ExPreacherMan Administrators​
God’s Word clearly states that salvation is by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Ephesians 2:8-9: [8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Lordship “salvation” (LS) is the unsupportable and unbiblical belief that the PERFORMANCE of good works, the PROMISE of good works, or the EVIDENCE of good works MUST accompany faith in Christ in order to establish, or provide evidence, that such faith has resulted in eternal life.



LS can be overt (one must forsake all of his sins and follow Christ in obedience and discipleship in order to be saved) or VERY SUBTLE (one’s behavior will change once he is saved, one must desire to get better in order to be saved, one must want to have a relationship with Jesus in order to be saved, or one must go beyond mere intellectual assent and actively respond – do something (such as Rahab opening the door to spies, or Abraham offering Isaac on the altar) in response to God’s message in order to be saved).


Nowhere in the Bible does it say that any of these man-made conditions are necessary for one to receive eternal life. And yet, such things are taught by many churches, ministries, and pastors throughout professing Christendom.
We expose the people who promote LS, because they:
• Keep people lost (Luke 8-12; 2 Corinthians 4:4);
• Are accursed (Galatians 1:9);
• Frustrate grace (Galatians 2:21);
• Bewitch believers, rendering the believers ineffective in their Christian lives (Galatians 5:4); and
• Are to be marked and avoided (Romans 16:17 and 16:18)

In addition to the above, LS causes people to focus on themselves, rather than on Christ, for assurance of salvation.
We cannot know whether or not someone influenced by LS is saved. In some cases, they may have never even heard the Gospel presented clearly, and may have never believed in Jesus as their Savior. In other cases, they may have believed in Jesus as their Savior, but have received bad teaching that causes them ongoing confusion. We cannot tell which is which. But, in any case, they need our prayers and they need a clear presentation of the gospel.


One wonders why so many thousands of seeking souls flock to the false message of LS. Could it be a cultic draw by charismatic personalities who manipulate scripture, relish the attention, fame and (incidentally) the dollars cleverly conned from their followers?


Or, could it be that they walk into the nearest church, and they are sold a false LS gospel? After all, people naturally want to trust authority figures. In either case, the person who is fed false LS teaching is being steered away from the truth.
Although this list is by no means complete, following are some of the terms that are associated with Lordship salvation as being requirements for receiving eternal life:


“Repent of your sins”
“Turn from your sins”
“Be willing to turn from your sins”
“Put Christ on the throne of your life”
“Give your life to Christ”
“Commit to follow Christ”


Some proponents of Lordship salvation will allow that salvation is by Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, but then will insist that a saved person will show signs of being saved, such as sinning less and doing good works. If these “signs” are not present, they will insist, or at least heavily suspect, that a person has never believed in Christ as Savior.
This thought process can never lead to assurance of salvation, because it is always dependent on how one thinks he is DOING at any given point in time (we put DOING in all caps, because it is a work). Other folks think that God knows whether or not they are TRYING (we put TRYING in all caps, because it is a work). Trying will not help you attain eternal life. Eternal life is a free gift, received when someone trusts in Christ alone for it.
(Sorry, just because you say "don't bother" doesn't really stop me from "bothering.")

Seriously? Again. There was so much I was taught when I was first saved that was simply wrong:
-- I came to be saved by an act of my will.
-- I can't be "Spirit filled" until I speak in tongues.
-- 20,000 have-tos, (some of which you included with this article.)
-- I can't be a druggie and saved.
-- I can't like rock music.
-- I can't smoke.

Was I unsaved simply because I believed a lot of that junk (and was feeling very guilty about the other)? YOU CANNOT TURN SOMEONE INTO UNSAVED NO MATTER WHAT IS TAUGHT AND/OR BELIEVED BECAUSE GOD SAVES! WE DO NOT!

Have some faith in God. We may not know what we're doing, but he sure does!

He'll either steer us right here, or he'll correct us and clear up the mess of junk we are all wrong about believing in his eternal glory fest. But always, always it is on him, not how we believe just right (or absolutely wrong.)

I think you give too much motive and credit to Man's ability to sway others, (and add oddball motives, when as I look back, I see the motives were good intentioned. They simply shouldn't have kids teaching kids.)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I have learned there many variety of Lordship salvationists and sometimes it just becomes error refuting error among the different camps. We hyper grace people, thank God, are not in any of those camps!:)

All I want to say if you have no peace in Jesus, investigate Lordship salvation and their teachers because you maybe under their influence. It leads to a very unsteady walk in Jesus so I implore those who are willing to take the time to research a website (listed below) it will do you a world of good.

I have witnessed firsthand the logical consequences of Lordship salvation thinking, they never know when Jesus is completely Lord so they are constantly striving to turn over every aspect of themselves and trying to die to self over and over again, constantly trying to crucify the flesh and yet never really sure if their efforts are pleasing to God. On the flip side those who do feel they are doing well in the dying to self department become very self-righteous and fruit inspectors of others.

Lordship (non)-Salvation is so prevalent because it appeals to the fallen nature; the flesh. It’s the opposite of faith and grace–of the sacrifice of Christ alone for eternal life. Believe, yes believe in what He has done for each one of us individually, salvation is complete in Him.


https://expreacherman.com
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
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. We hyper grace people, thank God, are not in any of those camps!:)

I'd be a little careful along those lines...

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
(Luk 18:11)

Besides, I was told there is no such thing as 'hyper-grace' people. Oh well.:confused:
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
I'd be a little careful along those lines...

The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
(Luk 18:11)




Besides, I was told there is no such thing as 'hyper-grace' people. Oh well.:confused:
It was meant as a joke, that is why I put the smiley face.

Thank you for comparing me to the pharisee, very kind of you.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
3,670
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It was meant as a joke, that is why I put the smiley face.

Thank you for comparing me to the pharisee, very kind of you.
Oh sorry then for the misinterp. But not all 'smileys' mean a joke, some just mean goodwill. :) <----like that one.
 
S

Scriptureplz

Guest
(Sorry, just because you say "don't bother" doesn't really stop me from "bothering.")

Seriously? Again. There was so much I was taught when I was first saved that was simply wrong:
-- I came to be saved by an act of my will.
-- I can't be "Spirit filled" until I speak in tongues.
-- 20,000 have-tos, (some of which you included with this article.)
-- I can't be a druggie and saved.
-- I can't like rock music.
-- I can't smoke.

Was I unsaved simply because I believed a lot of that junk (and was feeling very guilty about the other)? YOU CANNOT TURN SOMEONE INTO UNSAVED NO MATTER WHAT IS TAUGHT AND/OR BELIEVED BECAUSE GOD SAVES! WE DO NOT!

Have some faith in God. We may not know what we're doing, but he sure does!

He'll either steer us right here, or he'll correct us and clear up the mess of junk we are all wrong about believing in his eternal glory fest. But always, always it is on him, not how we believe just right (or absolutely wrong.)

I think you give too much motive and credit to Man's ability to sway others, (and add oddball motives, when as I look back, I see the motives were good intentioned. They simply shouldn't have kids teaching kids.)
If you notice most of my posts include scripture and IT is what will "sway others". I am trying to use scripture to prove a biblical truth and for the life of me I can't understand why you seem to have some kind of problem with that. Lordship salvation IS a false gospel that will not save anyone according to Gods word, not mine! Have you even taken the time to read the scripture? Get the chip off your shoulder or please ignore my posts! Thanks!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
That might be the sanitized public face of hyper grace, but it's definitely not what's going on under the hood.
to try to heap under the same heading many millions of Christians with widely differing views is simply plain stupid.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
Oh sorry then for the misinterp. But not all 'smileys' mean a joke, some just mean goodwill. :) <----like that one.
Good to know, Thank you Crossnote :) (as in goodwill)

Angela
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
"
following are some of the terms that are associated with Lordship salvation as being requirements for receiving eternal life:


“Repent of your sins”
“Turn from your sins”
“Be willing to turn from your sins”
“Put Christ on the throne of your life”
“Give your life to Christ”
“Commit to follow Christ”

***********************

What is so wrong with the above list?

Maybe if you mix it with the belief that you can lose your salvation it gets shaky but by itself, it looks like a good list for people to ask themselves.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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"
following are some of the terms that are associated with Lordship salvation as being requirements for receiving eternal life:


“Repent of your sins”
“Turn from your sins”
“Be willing to turn from your sins”
“Put Christ on the throne of your life”
“Give your life to Christ”
“Commit to follow Christ”

***********************

What is so wrong with the above list?

Maybe if you mix it with the belief that you can lose your salvation it gets shaky but by itself, it looks like a good list for people to ask themselves.
When I read what the tenets of lordship salvation are, I can't find anything wrong with them. I think, though, that gets skewed when some churches try to put it into practice (from what I've read)).
 
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Ariel82

Guest
When I read what the tenets of lordship salvation are, I can't find anything wrong with them. I think, though, that gets skewed when some churches try to put it into practice (from what I've read)).
Yeah but so does the Bible when people try and put somethings into practice.

If God isn't Lord in your life, than what is He to you?

I really don't understand why anyone would object to Jesus being Lord or why it is wrong to ask people to repent of their sins.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
I believe salvation is by grace of God which gives us faith in the redeeming work of Christ upon the cross. That alone saves us.

Yet it stands to question, why did God save us?

So we can go to heaven and be with Him?


Then why are we not dead?

God has a purpose for our lives, for our salvation. He saved us for a reason. Everyone should strive to learn and fulfill that purpose because the Holy Spirit will prompt and lead them to such fulfillment.

Turn your back on sin and focus your eyes on Christ. Walk where He leads you.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Yeah but so does the Bible when people try and put somethings into practice.

If God isn't Lord in your life, than what is He to you?

I really don't understand why anyone would object to Jesus being Lord or why it is wrong to ask people to repent of their sins.
Because to some grace that doesn't require anything is lord.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,743
3,670
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Are we saved by grace alone through faith alone? (Scripture)

OR

Are we saved by grace alone through faith and a dedication to obedience? (Lordship salvation)
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Quite revealing. And you take it that James was referring to initial salvation/regeneration?
I think he was referring to faith period.

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24

btw, I was kind of being tongue-in-cheek with my initial comment. I've been waiting to spring that on someone who used the faith alone thing. Kind of funny I think.
 
Feb 11, 2016
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I think he was referring to faith period.
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. James 2:24

btw, I was kind of being tongue-in-cheek with my initial comment. I've been waiting to spring that on someone who used the faith alone thing. Kind of funny I think.

Well yeah, because faith wouldnt be alone if its by faith we have access into the grace by which we stand, and the works are by that same grace (even as Paul spake of labouring yet not I but the grace with him) and just as God is love so also does faith work by love, you can sort of go that route.

But I know you when you got one up your sleeve ready to spring it on some poor soul :p