Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[throughfaith]

On election and predestination, my view is similar to Arminianism. But I learned these things before I knew what Jacobus taught, and I was not taught them by a preacher either, but by studying the Word.

At the time, my pastor thought I was too Calvinistic.

I have a friend who is an Arminain and says he is against calvinsm . Thinks calvinism is just cessationalism and OSAS . But inadvertently speaks like a Calvinist.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes. Everything God ordains comes to pass. That was easy.

1 cor 9
14Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
15¶But I have used none of these things : neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
Not everything. Paul was ' chosen " to preach to the gentiles..it was ordained for him as a preacher to live off the gospel, but he chose not to .

 

[BenjaminN]

On election and predestination, my view is similar to Arminianism. But I learned these things before I knew what Jacobus taught, and I was not taught them by a preacher either, but by studying the Word.

At the time, my pastor thought I was too Calvinistic.

You say Jacobus, is that the book of James in the English bible you are referring to?

 

[OIC1965]

I have a friend who is an Arminain and says he is against calvinsm . Thinks calvinism is just cessationalism and OSAS . But inadvertently speaks like a Calvinist.

Huge differences between the two.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

My Exegesis is excellent if for no other reason than because it doesn't disparage baptism.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill the scriptures prophecy of Messiah. John 1: 33 And I did not recognize him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘The one on whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining—this is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have both seen and testified that this man is the Chosen One of God.”[cf]

It was after his baptism that Jesus ministry began. This act delivered the message of the importance of baptism in water, and baptism in the holy spirit, which Jesus said would itself occur after his ascension. Acts 1

Baptism in water came first in Jesus' teachings. John 3:25 Now a dispute came about between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew[ba] concerning ceremonial washing.[bb] 26 So they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, the one who was with you on the other side of the Jordan River,[bc] about whom you testified—see, he is baptizing, and everyone is flocking to him!”27 John replied,[bd] “No one can receive anything unless it has been given to him from heaven.



Matthew 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John to be baptized by him in the Jordan River.[u] 14 But John[v] tried to prevent[w] him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you come to me?” 15 So Jesus replied[x] to him, “Let it happen now,[y] for it is right for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John[z] yielded[aa] to him. 16 After[ab] Jesus was baptized, just as he was coming up out of the water, the[ac] heavens[ad] opened[ae] and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove[af] and coming to rest[ag] on him. 17 And[ah] a voice from heaven said,[ai] “This is my one dear Son;[aj] in him[ak] I take great delight.”[al]

Woe to those who disparage baptism in the sinners pursuit of the truth and the way of Jesus Christ. Jesus led by example, as did his disciples with and after him. And they baptized!And Jesus taught baptism in water. All before he ascended. Which negates those who insist Jesus baptized in the holy spirit and it was to that which he referred when "baptism" appears in scriptures. Because we know, as evidenced by just one scripture above, that holy spirit baptism did not occur until after Jesus departed to the father. How do we know? Jesus taught us so.
That is proper exegesis!
Disparaging water baptism is not. And it is a red herring to the utmost to impart in any way that this is saying advocates of baptism are teaching baptism saves. It does not. And to my knowledge no one has ever said it does. No, not even me.

In fact, it is anti-gospel to demean water baptism. Jesus was the living truth of the good news. And Jesus taught the importance of baptism.
Matthew 28:19-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

And by the way? The story of Noah and the ark prefigured water baptism. 1 Peter 3.
So then does baptism save? Was Peter an apostle of Christ anointed by Christ to carry forth Christ's great commission?

so far as I know, Noah was never IN the water........He was saved FROM the water
You can woe all you like, water baptism gets you wet, it does not confer any type of grace on you as the Roman Catholic organization teaches....one of their 142 ways to grace as provided by them

None of the apostles were baptized except Paul.....his was the baptism of the Nazarene priesthood (before he was with Christ and was a person of importance in Judaism)
Jesus baptized nobody
As I said before, Christian baptism is symbolic of the death of the old man and being raised to the new man.
Baptism is always by immersion.........the word BAPTIZO means to fully immerse.
That is why when one is baptised with the Holy Spirit we are immersed into His leading.
Baptism positions us and gives us gifts that edify the church (like discernment, hospitality, teaching etc) We are also empowered to be bold for Christ.

 

[throughfaith]

I agree. So God knew that you would believe and He knew that you would be adopted before you believed.

All believers are predestined to the Adoption After they believe because Gods prerequisite to recieve the grace is thorough faith . The access to the grace is through faith ..Yes God is outside of time . We do not live outside of time . We have real consequences inside time , real freedom and real decisions to make . In time was also placed the Son of God ,who stepped into our existence and in time died for the sins of the world was buried and rose again the third day ,in time .

 

[OIC1965]

1 cor 9
14Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
15¶But I have used none of these things : neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
Not everything. Paul was ' chosen " to preach to the gentiles..it was ordained for him as a preacher to live off the gospel, but he chose not to .

Nice equivocation there.

We were speaking of things that God decrees and you slipped a verse about something that God prescribes.

 

[throughfaith]

Huge differences between the two.

Have you listened to David Pawson ?

 

[throughfaith]

Nice equivocation there.

We were speaking of things that God decrees and you slipped a verse about something that God prescribes.

The word is ordained . you said all things that God ordained comes to pass ?

 

[OIC1965]

All believers are predestined to the Adoption After they believe because Gods prerequisite to recieve the grace is thorough faith . The access to the grace is through faith ..Yes God is outside of time . We do not live outside of time . We have real consequences inside time , real freedom and real decisions to make . In time was also placed the Son of God ,who stepped into our existence and in time died for the sins of the world was buried and rose again the third day ,in time .

Did God plan on adopting you before you believed?

 

[OIC1965]

Have you listened to David Pawson ?

No.

 

[OIC1965]

You say Jacobus, is that the book of James in the English bible you are referring to?

No I was referring to Jacobus Arminius.

 

[OIC1965]

The word is ordained . you said all things that God ordained comes to pass ?

Do you know what equivocating means?

What was the context of your question? What were we discussing? Prescriptive will of God or His eternal purposes?

If you confuse the two, you’ll end up in a mess.

 

[BenjaminN]

No I was referring to Jacobus Arminius.

Oh, thanks, hence Arminianism I suppose?

 

[OIC1965]

The word is ordained . you said all things that God ordained comes to pass ?

You asked me the question while we were talking about God’s eternal purposes, and then you slipped a verse from an English translation that uses the word ordain in a completely different sense than the way it would be used in the context of our discussion.

That is an equivocation fallacy.

Diatasso means to PRESCRIBE in the scripture you cited. The word “ordain” as it is normally used when discussing the eternal purpose of God would be defined as “ to decree”.

So you equivocated.

 

[BenjaminN]

No I was referring to Jacobus Arminius.

Do you know of the former Calvinist, now turned Arminian Jew, Dr Michael Brown?

http://askdrbrown.org/

 

[OIC1965]

The word is ordained . you said all things that God ordained comes to pass ?

Diatasso means to command or prescribe. Ordaining in the sense of prescribing something is not the same thing as ordaining in the sense of an eternal decree, which is what we were discussing.

You took a word with more than one meaning and changed its meaning from a meaning that fits the context that we are discussing to a meaning that does not fit the context of what we are talking about.

 

[OIC1965]

Do you know of the former Calvinist, now turned Arminian Jew, Dr Michael Brown?

http://askdrbrown.org/

Yes. He is very much involved in Jewish evangelism.

 

[BenjaminN]

Yes. He is very much involved in Jewish evangelism.

Ok, here is a predestination debate between him, Dr Michael Brown (Arminian), and Dr James White (Calvinist):

What would be your short version difference between the two camps' view on predestination? Monergism and Synergism?

 

[GraceAndTruth]

My Exegesis is excellent if for no other reason than because it doesn't disparage baptism.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill the scriptures prophecy of Messiah. John 1: 33 And I did not recognize him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘The one on whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining—this is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have both seen and testified that this man is the Chosen One of God.”[cf]

It was after his baptism that Jesus ministry began. This act delivered the message of the importance of baptism in water, and baptism in the holy spirit, which Jesus said would itself occur after his ascension. Acts 1

Baptism in water came first in Jesus' teachings. John 3:25 Now a dispute came about between some of John’s disciples and a certain Jew[ba] concerning ceremonial washing.[bb] 26 So they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, the one who was with you on the other side of the Jordan River,[bc] about whom you testified—see, he is baptizing, and everyone is flocking to him!”27 John replied,[bd] “No one can receive anything unless it has been given to him from heaven.



Matthew 3:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John to be baptized by him in the Jordan River.[u] 14 But John[v] tried to prevent[w] him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you come to me?” 15 So Jesus replied[x] to him, “Let it happen now,[y] for it is right for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John[z] yielded[aa] to him. 16 After[ab] Jesus was baptized, just as he was coming up out of the water, the[ac] heavens[ad] opened[ae] and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove[af] and coming to rest[ag] on him. 17 And[ah] a voice from heaven said,[ai] “This is my one dear Son;[aj] in him[ak] I take great delight.”[al]

Woe to those who disparage baptism in the sinners pursuit of the truth and the way of Jesus Christ. Jesus led by example, as did his disciples with and after him. And they baptized!And Jesus taught baptism in water. All before he ascended. Which negates those who insist Jesus baptized in the holy spirit and it was to that which he referred when "baptism" appears in scriptures. Because we know, as evidenced by just one scripture above, that holy spirit baptism did not occur until after Jesus departed to the father. How do we know? Jesus taught us so.
That is proper exegesis!
Disparaging water baptism is not. And it is a red herring to the utmost to impart in any way that this is saying advocates of baptism are teaching baptism saves. It does not. And to my knowledge no one has ever said it does. No, not even me.

In fact, it is anti-gospel to demean water baptism. Jesus was the living truth of the good news. And Jesus taught the importance of baptism.
Matthew 28:19-20 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

And by the way? The story of Noah and the ark prefigured water baptism. 1 Peter 3.
So then does baptism save? Was Peter an apostle of Christ anointed by Christ to carry forth Christ's great commission?

Woe all you want, that does not make you right.

To my knowledge Noah was saved FROM the water.........not IN the water.

1 Jesus baptized no one and said nothing about water baptism.
2 None of the apostles were baptized except Paul, whose baptism came before his apostleship, and was a baptism of the Nazarene priesthood.
3 Water baptism get you wet but has no efficacy.
4. Baptizo means to fully immerse
When we are baptized into the Holy Spirit we receive gifts to edify the church (teaching, discernment,hospitality, et all)
We are also empowered to be bold in speaking the word of truth,

The things Jesus tells His apostles to do are for them. Disciples are not under the same instructions. (your reference to Matt. 28