Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[OIC1965]

The word is ordained . you said all things that God ordained comes to pass ?

God does whatever He pleases psalm 135: 6.

He can ordain things and set them aside later. Like much of the Law’s ceremonies.

He can ordain things and permit them to be disobeyed.

But whatever God has ordained that it WILL COME TO PASS will come to pass

That’s the kind of ordain I was talking about. Not mere prescriptive law which God knows and says beforehand will not be done universally.

 

[BenjaminN]

God does whatever He pleases psalm 135: 6.

He can ordain things and set them aside later.

He can ordain things and permit them to be disobeyed.

But whatever God has ordained that it WILL COME TO PASS will come to pass

That’s the kind of ordain I was talking about. Not mere prescriptive will, which God knows will not be done universally.

Story of Job : God permits Satan to take away all from Job except his life. Without God's permission Job could not be touched.

 

[OIC1965]

Story of Job : God permits Satan to take away all from Job except his life. Without God's permission Job could not be touched.

Good point

also

Story of Joseph in Genesis

And

The crucifixtion of Jesus.

 

[soggykitten]

Woe all you want, that does not make you right.

To my knowledge Noah was saved FROM the water.........not IN the water.

1 Jesus baptized no one and said nothing about water baptism.
2 None of the apostles were baptized except Paul, whose baptism came before his apostleship, and was a baptism of the Nazarene priesthood.
3 Water baptism get you wet but has no efficacy.
4. Baptizo means to fully immerse
When we are baptized into the Holy Spirit we receive gifts to edify the church (teaching, discernment,hospitality, et all)
We are also empowered to be bold in speaking the word of truth,

The things Jesus tells His apostles to do are for them. Disciples are not under the same instructions. (your reference to Matt. 28

Those who speak against the teachings of Jesus will never be right. Therefore, woe is their destiny unless they repent.

We are also empowered to be bold in speaking the word of truth.

You demonstrate that is not your mission.
It isn't true Jesus didn't baptize anyone. Jesus taught his Disciples to baptize with water as we know because baptism in the holy spirit hadn't occurred as yet because Jesus was still in his earthly ministry. You deny that even with passages proving it.
You disparage baptism. No, truth is not your mission. Your mission is to reiterate your beliefs and contend against the scriptures that don't agree with them.

As to the baptism of the Disciples/Apostles, where is the scripture that speaks of their conversion?

There is none.
Yet, they were converted. Therefore you cannot say the Disciples/Apostles were not baptized. When Jesus taught them to baptize in water, it is impossible to insist they weren't themselves baptized.

This isn't actually a discussion. At this point this is me being astonished at the anti-gospel mission I've discovered in this world. Naive of me to think there aren't apostles dedicated to that.

And by the way, those who are sola sriptura do not contend against the scriptures.

John 3:23-36 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there:and they came, and were baptized. For John was not yet cast into prison.

 

[awelight]

Those who speak against the teachings of Jesus will never be right. Therefore, woe is their destiny unless they repent.

We are also empowered to be bold in speaking the word of truth.

You demonstrate that is not your mission.
It isn't true Jesus didn't baptize anyone. Jesus taught his Disciples to baptize with water as we know because baptism in the holy spirit hadn't occurred as yet because Jesus was still in his earthly ministry. You deny that even with passages proving it.
You disparage baptism. No, truth is not your mission. Your mission is to reiterate your beliefs and contend against the scriptures that don't agree with them.

As to the baptism of the Disciples/Apostles, where is the scripture that speaks of their conversion?

There is none.
Yet, they were converted. Therefore you cannot say the Disciples/Apostles were not baptized. When Jesus taught them to baptize in water, it is impossible to insist they weren't themselves baptized.

This isn't actually a discussion. At this point this is me being astonished at the anti-gospel mission I've discovered in this world. Naive of me to think there aren't apostles dedicated to that.

And by the way, those who are sola sriptura do not contend against the scriptures.

John 3:23-36 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there:and they came, and were baptized. For John was not yet cast into prison.

There are several points you made correctly but several are incorrect.

You said... "It isn't true Jesus didn't baptize anyone." Incorrect. Jesus is not known to have ever baptized anyone. The statement in John 3:22, is clarified in John 4:2. His disciples did the work on Jesus' behalf and thus it was attributed to Him as one and the same. I do agree that the disciples were not mentioned as to being baptized, however, it would be logical to conclude they probably were. Since Christ Himself was baptized by John.... they probably followed Him in this act. We do know that the thief on the cross was never baptized.

I don't follow your point as to Baptism in the Spirit, since this baptism did not replace water baptism. And to the point of Baptism in the Spirit, Scripture does not teach individual Spirit Baptism. All references to being Baptized in the Spirit, always, took place collectively. That is on a group of believers. (The first was on the Jews. The second on the Gentiles.).

Water baptism does not save anyone. It is never seen in Scripture as an ordinance to Salvation; rather it is because of Salvation (Conversion) that one is compelled to follow Christ in this ordinance. It is by the believer, the first obedient act unto God.

 

[throughfaith]

Did God plan on adopting you before you believed?

Not planned individually and then caused

Do you know what equivocating means?

What was the context of your question? What were we discussing? Prescriptive will of God or His eternal purposes?

If you confuse the two, you’ll end up in a mess.

Calvinist speak .

 

[throughfaith]

This is getting silly. I don’t believe God is a micromanager, but on the other hand, I don’t know what might come from this conversation, what kind of effects it may have, good or bad, so I do not know the answer to your question

Does God ordain which shirt I wear? Doubt it.

I do know that God isn’t sitting there saying “ I never imagined they would say that!!!”

Or

“ wow, I thought he would wear the other shirt”.

If God sees past ,present and future at a glance then he would just see which shirt you put on .

 

[BenjaminN]

If God sees past ,present and future at a glance then he would just see which shirt you put on .

God is almighty.

 

[throughfaith]

God is almighty.

He cannot lie , sin , ect

 

[BenjaminN]

He cannot lie , sin , ect

He allows it, he created Satan, and in his almightiness knew what Satan would do to his first creation, and knew beforehand that he will create a new heaven and new earth, where there will be no lies, sin or Satan.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those who speak against the teachings of Jesus will never be right. Therefore, woe is their destiny unless they repent.

so when are you going to repent?

 

[throughfaith]

Story of Job : God permits Satan to take away all from Job except his life. Without God's permission Job could not be touched.

It pleases God to save those that believe the Gospel. 1 cor 1.21 . Simple faith .

 

[throughfaith]

Ok, here is a predestination debate between him, Dr Michael Brown (Arminian), and Dr James White (Calvinist):

What would be your short version difference between the two camps' view on predestination? Monergism and Synergism?

The only difference is conditional v unconditional ' election ' .
Previenient grace v irresistible grace .
both believe in total inability. Both believe that Election happened in eternity passed . They are both faulty positions which come from the same faulty pot . Its an in house squabble that started with Jacob coming away from his Calvinism , but just like Luther doesn't quite leave Rome Jacob doesn't quite leave the calvinist hive . If your stuck in either of these camps you will inevitably be caught in 'Lordship salvation '. They are more alike than they are different.

 

[BenjaminN]

The only difference is conditional v unconditional ' election ' .
Previenient grace v irresistible grace .
both believe in total inability. Both believe that Election happened in eternity passed . They are both faulty positions which come from the same faulty pot . Its an in house squabble that started with Jacob coming away from his Calvinism , but just like Luther doesn't quite leave Rome Jacob doesn't quite leave the calvinist hive . If your stuck in either of these camps you will inevitably be caught in 'Lordship salvation '. They are more alike than they are different.

You do not believe in God's election of the saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Genesis 15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate it and tend it. 16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not [o]eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Adam did eat of the fruit, did he die physically? no
So it has to be spiritiually unless .....God (who is immutable) changed his mind??

Lol, your focal point is on one area, your not seeing the whole picture

i am not talking about physical death

yes adam died spiritually

and yes his sin was passed down to all, as in Adam all die

yet paul said the penalty of sin is death, all sin, not just Adams sin.

even if it was just Adams sin, God would have to justify us of that sin before he could make us alive, so even then, justification would be required before regeneration.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do not believe in God's election of the saved?

He does not believe anything that would possibly be Calvinist,

since he has been here he has been on a rant to destroy calvinism at all costs, going so low as to call people calvinists who are not. saying They believe things they do not, and Saying clear things in scripture are not there (like election before time began) which he believes on happens after, even though it has been proven to him this is not true, as pall was called, or elected while in his mother’s womb, a fact he even admitted,

 

[throughfaith]

You do not believe in God's election of the saved?

I believe that election happens in time . For service and purpose . Not before we existed ,to BE saved .

 

[throughfaith]

You do not believe in God's election of the saved?

Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)

Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

 

[BenjaminN]

I believe that election happens in time . For service and purpose . Not before we existed ,to BE saved .

Do you believe that faith is a gift from God?

 

[throughfaith]

Do you believe that faith is a gift from God?

No more than the air we breath and the food we eat. We have to put that faith into the right object. its who we put our faith IN that saves .