Losing Salvation ?!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Eze 3:20-21,
Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48

If Joe is saved it's not because of his 2 decades of faith. Joe is saved because he accepted Jesus Christ as his Savior back 20yrs ago and Jesus did what He promised to do. This doesn't have to be difficult. Be like a child and believe without worry. Take that step over the line and believe that Jesus will do what He promises to do no matter what we do., His promises are not based on how faithful we are but how faithful He is. Saved by grace through faith.


I do believe that Jesus will do what He promises. To those who are victorious, I will not blot out their names from the Book of Life.

"This doesn't have to be difficult. Be like a child and believe without worry. Take that step over the line and believe that Jesus will do what He promises to do no matter what we do. His promises are not based on how faithful we are but how faithful He is."

Your words sound like the serpent, don't worry just do it.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Hi Ricky

was looking at the words backslider and backsliding, and I see that there are promises that one can claim for the backslider.

In Jeremiah 3 the Word says that the backslider will end up in a desert place, and I thought of the wilderness. We hear Christians speak of a wilderness experience all the time. Then the Word says that God will bring them to Zion. Give them pastors that will feed them. So apparently, when one backslides, they probably have a wrong picture of Father. Perhaps all they ever heard about was an angry God.

That chapter is a good one to see how God thinks.


Jer 3:22 Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

His response....our response.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
I do believe that Jesus will do what He promises. To those who are victorious, I will not blot out their names from the Book of Life.

"This doesn't have to be difficult. Be like a child and believe without worry. Take that step over the line and believe that Jesus will do what He promises to do no matter what we do. His promises are not based on how faithful we are but how faithful He is."

Your words sound like the serpent, don't worry just do it.
if you lose faith than you lose your salvation

matt 13

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
God knows, we can not judge, because we do not know joe's heart.

Why would you want us to judge him? Why would you?
I'm sorry, I thought you were following the thread. It wasn't judgment it was germane to the conversation.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
*
1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 - "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

*
2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.
3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.
4. We are not saved by acts of works.

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. [SUP][/SUP] 4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works. 13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not. 18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[SUP]d[/SUP] 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It’s a gift of God and not of works, let any man should boast.

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”

Romans 5:1 "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

*
5. Works give evidence of salvation

James 2:
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP]d[/SUP] ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP]e[/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

*
6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

*
7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servant ye are to obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

*
8. By disbelief (apostasy) one can forfeit their salvation

2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world thru the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing to turn back from the Holy commandment delivered to them. What the true Proverb says has happened to them: "the dog returns to it's own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:22-23 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister

John 15:1 thru 6 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

2 Peter 1:5-9 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

*
9. Belief/Disbelief is not an act of works

(See nos. 2/3/4 above).

*
10. Salvation is not lost by works.

(See no. 6 above)

*
11. Salvation is forfeited by disbelief

(See no. 8 above)
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
Who is Hebrews 6 adressing to ?
If you read the context 6:1-12 you will see that the writer of Hebrews is the same thing Peter is saying in II Peter 1:5-11"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

The writer of Hebrews is making his warning a bit deeper with more detail of those that are not believers and who's election and calling are not sure.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm sorry, I thought you were following the thread. It wasn't judgment it was germane to the conversation.
I was following the thread.

you were asking us to judge what we thought the persons eternity would look like, in heaven or hell.

We can not do that.. (although one member stated I did already, when I did not..
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
I was following the thread.

you were asking us to judge what we thought the persons eternity would look like, in heaven or hell.

We can not do that.. (although one member stated I did already, when I did not..
Then the whole thread is one of judgment.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Then the whole thread is one of judgment.
Are you feeling judged? Perhaps the Holy Spirit is speaking to you about this subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
T

terry_newyork_usa

Guest
RickyZ

"Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works
Really?
"The seeds on the rocky soil represent those who hear the message and receive it with joy. But since they don’t have deep roots, , they believe for a while, then they fall away when they face temptation."

These people:
1. Heard the Word of God preached
2. Believed the message
3. Received the message
4. Eventually fell away when they faced temptation.

Saved once, fell into sin.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Then the whole thread is one of judgment.
Only if we are judging where a person will spend eternity.

We can judge a doctrine, We can not judge a person.

In your senerio, there are a few possibilities. Asking for just one possibility to to ask us to judge that person.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
RickyZ

"Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works
Really?
"The seeds on the rocky soil represent those who hear the message and receive it with joy. But since they don’t have deep roots, , they believe for a while, then they fall away when they face temptation."

These people:
1. Heard the Word of God preached
2. Believed the message
3. Received the message
4. Eventually fell away when they faced temptation.

Saved once, fell into sin.

it does not say they were ever saved, It says they believed only, and when the things of this world got to much, they fell away.

If they trusted God for eternity, why could they not trust God for the things in this life?


They fact that the things in this life could get them to wither and fade away, shows me they never had faith in God at all.

Not to mention, They produced no fruit. So they had no work to show their truth faith, which would show their faith was dead
 
T

terry_newyork_usa

Guest
We're not the final judge, God is. We're showing salvation can be forfeited by: 1) downright rejecting Christ 2) a lifestyle of deliberate sin 3) lukewarmness.

Only if we are judging where a person will spend eternity.

We can judge a doctrine, We can not judge a person.

In your senerio, there are a few possibilities. Asking for just one possibility to to ask us to judge that person.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
We're not the final judge, God is. We're showing salvation can be forfeited by: 1) downright rejecting Christ 2) a lifestyle of deliberate sin 3) lukewarmness.

Then you are preaching a salvation by our works, not a salvation of grace.

Your gospel says that salvation is based on the cross PLUS meeting these three demands (or not doing them)
 
T

terry_newyork_usa

Guest
I preach what the Bible preaches.
James 2:24
"You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

If it's a genuine faith, it will have works. If it's a faith that doesn't have works, James says it's a dead faith.

The works James is talking about aren't works to EARN salvation, they're works as a result of salvation. Nonetheless, they must be present or it's a dead faith.




Then you are preaching a salvation by our works, not a salvation of grace.

Your gospel says that salvation is based on the cross PLUS meeting these three demands (or not doing them)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
Those three pictures depicted in the parable doesn't necessarily say they are three separate persons life.

They could be a picture of how God is wooing one. The different stages of hearing the Word before the ground of the heart has been adequately plowed, and prepared.

I tend to view it that way because I identify with each of them before my new birth.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113

Then you are preaching a salvation by our works, not a salvation of grace.

Your gospel says that salvation is based on the cross PLUS meeting these three demands (or not doing them)
So, we can spend page after page after page assuming to know what happens to generic people who go apostate and that's ok. But if we then try to apply the beliefs to one specific hypothetical person it's judging?

No wonder our country is circling the drain. Logic, common sense, and the ability to follow the bouncing ball are lost on this people.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
Are you feeling judged? Perhaps the Holy Spirit is speaking to you about this subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Judged by God? Not at all.

Judged by people who can't follow a train of thought? Nah, 'cause I know they're having trouble making 2 + 2 =4.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
RickyZ

"Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works
Really?
"The seeds on the rocky soil represent those who hear the message and receive it with joy. But since they don’t have deep roots, , they believe for a while, then they fall away when they face temptation."

These people:
1. Heard the Word of God preached
2. Believed the message
3. Received the message
4. Eventually fell away when they faced temptation.

Saved once, fell into sin.
Your 1 thru 4 are all actions of people, not God.

God didn't let go of these HYPOTHETICAL people.

These HYPOTHETICAL (lest I be judged) people turned away on their own.