Losing Salvation ?!

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TruthTalk

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Jul 17, 2017
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The hardest thing in the world is to turn a man’s eyes off himself; as long as he lives, he always prefers to turn his eyes inside, and look at himself; whereas God says, “Look unto me.” From the cross of Calvary, where the bleeding hands of Jesus drop mercy; from the garden of Gethsemane, where the bleeding pores of the Saviour sweat pardons, the cry comes, “Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth.” From Calvary’s summit, where Je*sus cries, “It is finished,” I hear a shout, “Look, and be saved.” But there comes a vile cry from our soul, “Nay, look to your*self! look to yourself!” Ah, my hearer, look to yourself, and you will be damned. That certainly will come of it. As long as you look to yourself there is no hope for you. It is not a consideration of what you are, but a consideration of what God is, and what Christ is, that can save you. It is looking from yourself to Jesus. By: Charles Spurgeon

"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:22​




 
S

Sully

Guest
Only through Christ, however i rarely have seen anyone on the forums speak about backslidding or how the scriptures talk about how it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. Just primarily people saying regardless of what we do we are saved which i mean if people wanna believe that thats on them
Positional sanctification- This comes by default to those who believe upon Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.
Practical sanctification- This is a lifelong, Holy Spirit cooperative working out of the salvation obtained with positional sanctification. You may ebb and flow, fall and get up, "backslide" and forward drive with the entirety of this temporal plane existence.

If we try to promote practical sanctification without acknowledging our positional sanctification, we sprint into head on traffic and not only hinder our work in progress that comes with practical sanctification but hinder others' as well with confusion. God is the God of order and flow.
 
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Jas 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Jas 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Talking to those that have been saved,if they go back to a life of sin,and hold unto sin,they have erred from the truth,are a sinner,need to be converted,and their soul is not in the position of salvation.

How can this happen if they cannot fall.

Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

Talking to people that have been saved,that they are blessed if they endure temptation,do not sin,for they shall receive a crown of life,which is given to all those that love Jesus,so it is eternal life,if they hold unto sin it brings forth death,do not err.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Talking to people that were saved,that if they hold unto sin,then they have departed from the living God.

And remember there would not be warnings in the Bible if it could not happen,and it were OSAS.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Confess Christ,depart from iniquity,not an option,but a must do.

1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Paul knew the deal,that he had to abstain from sin,or he would be a castaway.Bring that body in to subjection,and in to correction,or there is no protection,but rejection,and no connection,to the living God.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Talking to people who were saved,go back to the ways of the world,and do not correct,no salvation.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Hold unto sin,the sacrifice of Jesus cannot wash it away.

People that believe they cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect their relationship with God,would they hold unto sin,most likely yes,for they will think they are alright despite their sins,and enjoy those sins worry free.

Everybody is in trouble for their sins,but OSAS.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Old Testament,New Testament,do not comply to the goodness of God,you shall be cut off.God said,be ye holy,as I am holy,and be ye perfect,as the Father in heaven is perfect.

And thy will be done on earth,as it is in heaven,and the angels are not in heaven sinning,and the ones that did are not there with God,but got the boot.

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

A person that has been saved,and became a preacher,could fall to the condemnation of the devil,because they got lifted up in pride,when they obtained the position of bishop,which can pertain to any preacher.

How do they say a person is saved if they fall to the condemnation of the devil,for it is condemnation,not salvaton,or will they say sin does not affect their relationship with God.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

These people have been saved,but are fallen,and Jesus told them to repent,or He would go against them.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

But Jesus works has nothing to do with us being right with you,who told you that,saith the Lord.Works of the flesh in false religions will not save you,do not quench the Spirit,do works of the Spirit which I require,or your faith is dead.You do not want to care about the poor and needy,enjoy worldliness,and fleshy pleasures,faith is dead.

But Jesus sin does not affect our relationship with you.Where are you people coming up with this stuff,saith the Lord,and by the way anybody can have salvation.Father what is wrong with these people that they do not want to be like Me,despite them being able to have the Spirit to be like Me,saith the Son.They are ashamed of Me and My character,for they do not care to be like Me.
 
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Positional sanctification- This comes by default to those who believe upon Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.
Practical sanctification- This is a lifelong, Holy Spirit cooperative working out of the salvation obtained with positional sanctification. You may ebb and flow, fall and get up, "backslide" and forward drive with the entirety of this temporal plane existence.

If we try to promote practical sanctification without acknowledging our positional sanctification, we sprint into head on traffic and not only hinder our work in progress that comes with practical sanctification but hinder others' as well with confusion. God is the God of order and flow.
Amazing truth......equally amazing is how many are blind to the dual usage of sanctification in a believer.....
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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If we had to be worthy to merit salvation, nobody would be saved.

You should take it up with the Lord.... those of us that believe will be given the reward according to our works... and that is the Words of the Messiah.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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What imperfect works? I checked with Christ and he says he knows nothing about your lack of perfection in regard to works because you believe in him for the forgiveness of those imperfect works. They are wiped away through your continued faith in Christ. You have the blood Christ through your continuing faith to cover your imperfect works. You are perfect in Christ, right now, despite your sins, as long as you stay in Christ. That's why you need to stay in Christ to stay saved from the penalty of your sins. But if you abandon Christ in a willful and knowing unbelief you will no longer have Christ's sacrifice to cover your imperfect life.
Is it the same Christ that tells us to repent if He deems our work not perfect?

The same that that said His reward is with Him to give every man according to His works?

To stay in Christ is to obey Him... He loved us now let us love Him.
 
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Positional sanctification- This comes by default to those who believe upon Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Practical sanctification- This is a lifelong, Holy Spirit cooperative working out of the salvation obtained with positional sanctification. You may ebb and flow, fall and get up, "backslide" and forward drive with the entirety of this temporal plane existence. If we try to promote practical sanctification without acknowledging our positional sanctification, we sprint into head on traffic and not only hinder our work in progress that comes with practical sanctification but hinder others' as well with confusion. God is the God of order and flow.
i never indicted to ignore positional sanctification
 
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Amazing truth......equally amazing is how many are blind to the dual usage of sanctification in a believer.....
Dude, Do all you do argue with people who dont follow your OSAS theory? Do you even spread the gospel to the lost? Do you even welcome new babes of christ? Do you even comfort others and pray for them? All i see you do is argue and show contempt towards those who dont argee with you which is not of God js
 
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J0Hnnatcc3

Senior Member
May 26, 2017
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Yes, once and for all. In context that means you do not have to make more sacrifices and ordain new priests in this New Covenant. The 'one time, for all time, for all people' Sacrifice and Priest will always be ministering before the altar in heaven for you so that you do not need to come back with another sacrifice for new sins you've committed like you had to under the old covenant.

But so many people think 'once and for all' means there's nothing that can reverse what began when you first believed, oblivious to the fact that what it actually means is you do not need to make additional sacrifices for additional sin. 'Once for all' does not preclude the necessity to keep believing in the 'One time for all' sacrifice presently ministering in heaven for those who trust in it. And that's not new, additional believing. It's the continuation of your believing you started the moment you confessed Christ as your savior.



Yep, the devil can never take away what you hold fast to through faith in Christ. Only YOU can decide to stop trusting in Christ for the forgiveness of your sin. You don't even need the devil's help to do that, but you do need Christ's help to keep believing. If it were entirely up to you to keep believing you would indeed be lost already. But as it is he is the author and finisher of your faith, not you. Which means He is the power for us to keep believing....if we want to keep believing.



That's exactly right. We MUST consider the entire context of scripture to see that we can indeed lose our salvation if we stop believing.

The promises are for those who BELIEVE. Not for those who don't believe, either because they stopped believing, or because they never believed to begin with. You have eternal life (Jesus Christ) if you believe. If you stop believing you no longer possess the life that is abundant and eternal--Jesus Christ. You are cut out of Christ.

The question of OSAS comes down to a single question: Can believers stop believing? That's the only valid question there is about OSAS, because the Bible makes it abundantly clear what will happen if you do stop believing, so that's not in dispute. Are the warnings to not stop believing sufficient to keep each and every believer believing to the very end as required? IOW, is falling into unbelief only hypothetical? Were the Galatians never really in danger of falling away from justification in Christ, or was it always true all along that all God had to do was warn them not to fall away and they would then not fall away? Answer that question and you have answered the question of OSAS.
Hello Mr Hart.

Though Hebrews 10 addresses that we need not offer sacrifices any longer, it doesn't change the meaning of 10:10. Just a few verses later we come across another encouraging statement:
Hebrews10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

I'm young and as I read more of the Bible, some of my Theology does change. One thing that hasn't changed when I study, is the confidence I have in Christ's redeeming Work :) (Phi 1:6).

I believe if someone is saved then they are always saved (I.S.A.S.), and that's the overall picture that is painted in the Bible too.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Dude, Do all you do argue with people who dont follow your OSAS theory? Do you even spread the gospel to the lost? Do you even welcome new babes of christ? Do you even comfort others and pray for them? All i see you do is argue and show contempt towards those who dont argee with you which is not of God js
I suggest you go back and read As I was not arguing with anybody DUDE....I was agreeing with SULLY and my statement stands.....the truth is the truth...many are blind to the dual usage of sanctification....so...say something worthy or don't address me with your vitriol!
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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You should take it up with the Lord.... those of us that believe will be given the reward according to our works... and that is the Words of the Messiah.
But that is the result of HAVING BEEN SAVED.
 
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I suggest you go back and read As I was not arguing with anybody DUDE....I was agreeing with SULLY and my statement stands.....the truth is the truth...many are blind to the dual usage of sanctification....so...say something worthy or don't address me with your vitriol!
Dude you argue with people in your little not of works thread all the time. I'll address you whenever i want, your not God nor will ever be. That arrogance you constantly display throughout threads for sure is not of God either.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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But that is the result of HAVING BEEN SAVED.

Revelation 22

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.




 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by valiant
But that is the result of HAVING BEEN SAVED
Revelation 22

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Yes the truly saved will enter In. HE guarantees it. John 6.39.




 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Yes the truly saved will enter In. HE guarantees it. John 6.39.




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If each is given the reward according to their works... the right to eat of the Tree of life... then compare that to what the person wrote that I replied to...
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Heavenly Father is not impressed by unwilling attitudes.. if after giving His only begotten Son without sin to redeem us you act like you are entitled to salvation and nothing you can do will cause you to be blotted out then you are yet to repent and receive the Holy Spirit Baptism that will change you inwardly...
 
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Dude you argue with people in your little not of works thread all the time. I'll address you whenever i want, your not God nor will ever be. That arrogance you constantly display throughout threads for sure is not of God either.
And your mouthy attitude is....? whatever pal.....keep dreaming!
 
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Well generally speaking repentance isn't a one time thing. Not to mention ive asked those who continually preach OSAS did they only repent once after they were saved or throughout their lives got no answer. Confessing shows acknowledgement to wrongdoing and respect to God for sinning against him. If people get in the habit of believing "im saved so i dont have to address God regarding anything" that's pretty disrespectful imo.
So do you judge all who believe in eternal security by this narrow scope....? Just because some fit the bill does not mean ALL fit the bill. The word repentance applies to more that just sin....it carries the idea of changing one's mind and agreeing with GOD....a disciple of JESUS who is studying the word and learning the word must change their mind about more than just sin and agree with God/JESUS.
 
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Do you think the 'little ones who believe in (Jesus)" in Matthew 18:6 NASB were 'not really' saved, fake believers?

Why would Jesus warn stumbling blocks about leading fake believers to the eternal fire?

Now folks, you can dismiss this very pointed passage about non-OSAS (Matthew 18:6-9) and elevate less pointed passages that seem to teach OSAS above it, but would that be very honest?
As per usual you don't know what you're talking about. You continue, incessantly to not understand the difference between descriptive and prescriptive texts. You are, frankly (albeit it perhaps in ignorance) preaching another gospel -- Galatians 1:8-10.

Basically Christ sort of saved you, but it is up to you now. Sounds like a sci-fi flick, but it definitely isn't the Gospel. You just cannot discern descriptive/prescriptive texts, and no matter how hard you try, there is no getting by the fact you are saving yourself.

Not going to argue back and forth over it with you. You can get your last word in on your works gospel and wresting Scripture. God's elect will never perish as per His word.

You say they will.
 
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