Loss of salvation versus questioning our faith

posthuman · Oct 21, 2016

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
(1 John 3:18-24)

John is writing here encouraging us to walk in the light, and writing in order to build up our confidence in Christ - by giving us a means to test those who come in His name but are not of Him, and to examine ourselves also, whether we are walking in Him.
In some ways, he is writing specifically to address heretical, gnostic teachings creeping into the body, but it is not all he is doing. this epistle is a very good place to look for self-examination -- among other things.

We know we are in the truth when we walk in the truth. If we are, we can have confidence before God. But what if we find that we don't?

For if our heart condemn us,
God is greater than our heart,
and knoweth all things.

Then God is greater than our heart - have confidence still.

Why? Because those that love Him keep His commandment, and this is His commandment: believe in the Son, and love one another. So what do we 'believe' ? We believe that the Son has made complete propitiation for us, taking away our sins and redeeming us so that we may have peace with God. Believe, then, and be confident before God in this belief.

And His command is to love one another - if we love, do we condemn? God alone judges the hearts of people, even ourselves. As Paul said in another place, his conscience is clear, but he is not thereby acquitted ((1 Cor. 4:4)) -- John says here likewise if our conscience is not clear, we are not thereby condemned, because in both cases, one thing: there is only one judgement that 'matters' and it is not yours, not mine, but the Lord's -- and He judged you worthy to receive His grace!!

So believe.
This is His commandment: believe.
And believing, walk in Him, being both humble before Him and having complete confidence in Him -- is anything less of faith? -- and "whatever is not of faith, is sin" but even so, "when we are faithless, He is faithful" and "if our hearts condemn us, He is greater than our hearts" being both able and willing to forgive all that we confess to Him.

These are words for those who believe, so that we would continue in Him.

bikerchaz · Oct 21, 2016

renewed_hope said:

1/ Yes.

2/ Don't know never seen one. Sorry couldn't resist that LOL. Loosing something you never had is why we have apostasy within the church. Some people get hurt and walk away from the Church, how and why do not matter, but this happens a lot and they feel their approval is needed and repentance, to them personally, is needed and depending on the severity of their disappointment grovelling is needed. when this does not happen, this turns to literal hate for God and anything to do with church.

But these people have never met with Jesus, if they had they would not be in that situation. To loose your salvation is to truly hate your fellow man. To truly loath Jesus and God. It turns out to be an evil that can not be quenched and is manifest through utter despair, knowing what is to happen and being powerless to stop it. Why do you think satan is so vile? Has it not lost its salvation it had with Father at the very first.

PS. This is why we do have the first part of this answer, about apostasy. the enemy does not want people to know the truth of who Jesus is. Knowing Jesus will transform your life. I will not matter what others do, your fire can not be quenched unless you do it yourself.

3/ Now this is a different scenario and I will try and be short. Questioning ones faith comes in many forms. I have done this. I believe everyone who is chosen has. What bought me through this point on my life was "Come let us reason together". This for me meant me and Jesus not me and the vicar or pastor or priest, this was and is a personal invitation from God to reason together. It does not get more personal than that.

I suggest everyone try it. But only if you want to hear what God says and some will be disappointed.

PrynceNY · Oct 21, 2016

fredoheaven said:

Hi,

Can one lose salvation for whom the Father and Christ and the Holy Spirit of promise, promise us in the scriptures that the Godhead will keep it or that it is sealed?

John 10:28 And I gave unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29 My Father which gave them, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

See also 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; Ephesians 4:30

God bless

Hello

John 10:28 NEVER PERISH No One Can Pluck Them Grip

God bless

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 21, 2016

RickyZ said:

False "bad works" are called sin, or "works of iniquity" and a servant of sin ABIDES NOT in the Lords house forever.

I have heard so many lies and false doctrine being spread about how ongoing sin will not effect your eternal security in Christ. I am going to prove this idea totally false by the words of Jesus. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, then you will also believe and continue in His words right? Well here goes….

John 8:31-36 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

These words of Jesus are so plain and simple a child could understand them, but sinners will still argue against this very plain and simple truth because they themselves are still committing sins and are servants of sin, and thus they will also try to justify themselves and ongoing sin.

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

People, believing in the Truth according to the words of God has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin. Jesus Christ is the very Word of God, which is Truth and is that Eternal Life. Believe in what Jesus said above, and not the lies and false doctrine of carnally minded men. Believe Jesus when He said you can indeed be set free from the bondage of sin and death.

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 21, 2016

renewed_hope said:

1 Timothy 4:1-2 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[SUP]2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;”

Paul is speaking of the falling away from the faith here, and how seducing spirits and doctrines of devils would draw many away from the true gospel message, and preach a message of peace and safety, even a message of eternal security for the wicked and ongoing sinners as we see today. Let’s explore this seduction by a few verses of scripture.

It is written in Proverbs 12:26 “The righteous is more excellent than his neighbour: but the way of the wicked seduceth them.”

In Ezekiel chapter 13 the Lord is speaking to the false prophets, the foolish prophets who follow their own spirit. Notice what the Lords says in Ezekiel 13:10 “Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:” This wall of false doctrine and a false sense of security the Lord said he would bring down with His wrath.

Jesus also warned of many false prophets to come, who also would seduce here in Mark 13:22 “For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.”

And another warning from Paul in 2 Timothy 3:13 “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”

In 1 John 2:26 John was warning the disciples of Jesus Christ against seducers who were not walking in the Way and the Truth of the gospel. John said in verse 26 [SUP]“[/SUP]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.”

If you back up to the beginning of the chapter and see what John had written, you would see the warnings that we also should take heed to today as well. One of the first warnings Johns writes is in the first verse is “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.”

And this is the main theme of the warnings in Johns letter about those who were trying to seduce them with false doctrine.

John goes on to say in 1 John 2:3-7 “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.[SUP]7 [/SUP]Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.”

Jesus Christ is the Word that was heard from the beginning; believe on the words the Father gave to His Son as a commandment, and do what He says for you to do, this is the will of the Father, that you keep His commandments.

And be not deceived by those who preach a false sense of security in a life of ongoing sin, for the warnings are very clear. 1 Thessalonians 5:3 “For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 21, 2016

I'm going to post some scriptures on the falling away from the faith prophecy to confirm what is being said.

We are warned in 1 Timothy 4:1 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;” Also in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

The falling away from the faith above mentioned by Paul has to do with the saints of God being overcome by all the lies and deception of the Devil by way of his spirit, which is the spirit of a lie. This spirit of a lie is also shown as the false prophet spirit which works in many deceivers. As many false prophets and teachers were foretold to come into the world like a swarm of locusts from hell and darken the Light of the Truth in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Paul was playing off the words of Jesus when he referred to “that man” and “son of perdition” in the above verse. But this is not to be misunderstood as a being single individual man yet to come in the future like Judas, but rather it speaks of the sin nature of man (mystery of iniquity) being raised back up again in the world and embraced. These seducing spirits and doctrines of devils would enter into the man-made church system, thereby causing many to play the Harlot with the ways of the world, and thereby making them desolate of good works and naked by sin.

Notice how Jesus refers to a whole wicked generation as “a man” and “ that man” (like Paul said) here in Matthew 12:43-45 “When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”

Now notice the wording Jesus used showing the “last state of that man” referring to a whole wicked generation compared to Peters concerning this same falling away in 2 Peter 2:20-22 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”

Many of the saints being overcome is also shown here in Revelation 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.” So this spirit of deception and lies would also overcome many of the saints as is also confirmed here in Daniel 7:21 “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;” That horn is the tail of the red Dragon, which speaks of the spirit of a lie working in all the false prophets of the world. This spirit of a lie was foretold to practice and prosper in the world and also cast the truth and also some of the host of heaven to the ground.

So was Paul talking about a single man in 2 Thess. or a single evil spirit and also other seducing spirits working in a whole wicked generation like Jesus said? Well if you read the whole chapter in 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12 you will see this truth shown…“And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”

Clearly Paul was talking about more than one single individual man in the above verses using words like them , they, and they all.

But what about the term “son of perdition?” It speaks of the same thing, as was first shown in Judas (one who broke bread at the Lords table) who also sold out the Truth for a pocket full of silver, just as the firstborn Esau sold his birth right for some red pottage.(sin) Look at what Peter had to say about the “son of perdition.”

Peter goes on to quote scripture concerning Judas, (son of perdition) in the Psalms Acts 1:20 “For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.” Now, in order to confirm my point about there being more than one “son of perdition” or son who goes into destruction, let’s look at the Psalms from where Peter was drawing this from.

In Psalm 69 we see this same language used in verse Psalm 69:25 “Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.” Notice the Psalm says “their” as in more than one. As a matter of fact, if you read the whole Psalm the Lord is speaking of many, like in verse 4 the Lord says “they that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head”. The Lord repeatedly uses the words “they their, and them”, in the Psalm just as Paul also used the same language in 2 Thess 2:10-12 describing the man of sin, (lawlessness) and son of perdition.

Now let’s confirm the same message in another Psalm which speaks of what Peter quoted also in Psalm 109:8 “Let his days be few; and let another take his office.” Now that sounds more like what Peter was quoting from when he said in Acts 1:20 “Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take” Which this does speak specifically about the single man Judas. (Which has already been fulfilled as Jesus noted in John 17:12.)

But let’s now look at that Psalm in the greater context of what is being said.

Psalm 109:1-13 Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.[SUP]3 [/SUP]They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.[SUP]4 [/SUP]For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.[SUP]7 [/SUP]When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.[SUP]8 [/SUP]Let his days be few; and let another take his office.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.[SUP]10 [/SUP]Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.”

So though him was referring to the single man Judas in this Psalm, as both Jesus and Peter confirmed, I believe it is very clear that Paul was not talking about a single man yet to come, but rather a whole wicked generation who would fall away from following after the Truth in Christ, and also go into destruction.

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 21, 2016

More scriptures about falling away, and turning back.........

Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Ezekiel 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.

Ezekiel 33:18 “When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.”

Matthew 7:26-27 “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.”

Matthew 15:14 “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.”

Luke 6:39 “And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

1 Corinthians 10:12 “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1 Timothy 3:6 “Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

1 Timothy 3:7 “Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

1 Timothy 6:9 “But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.”

Hebrews 4:11 “Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

Hebrews 10:38 “Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.”

Acts 7:38-39 “This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:[SUP]39 [/SUP]To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,”

Luke 9:62 “And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

Luke 17:32-33 “Remember Lot's wife.[SUP]33 [/SUP]Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.”

Genesis 19:26 “But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.”

Luke 8:13 “They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.”

2 Peter 1:10 “Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2 Peter 3:17 “Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.”

Revelation 2:5 “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.”

Adstar · Oct 21, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

But the truth is people fall away from believing Jesus and trusting in His atonement.. Sometimes it is because they choose to believe in works salvation doctrine.. Or they cease to believe what Jesus said.. People are falling away all the time.. It matters not what the reason is... It happens..

Grace777x70 · Oct 21, 2016

It is vitally important to take all scripture in context and with the view of the finished work of Christ. If not then we will have an Old Covenant view of the scriptures and thus distort and pervert the finished work of Christ for the believer and change it into a works-based salvation which is at it's core anti-Christ.

Here is an example of reading 1 Tim 4 "in context".

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....

This not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

notuptome · Oct 21, 2016

Romans 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

This passage is well know but is it understood? When we receive Christ and are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit we are free from condemnation. Who condemned us in the first place? Why sin of course.

Christ's death, burial and resurrection frees us from the condemnation of sin. Christ condemned sin by His death, burial and resurrection. The condemnation is now upon sin and not upon us. Sin no longer has dominion over us but Christ has dominion over us.

If we receive the truth that Christ resurrected from the tomb we can be certain that death cannot ever touch us but we will be raised in newness of life like Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

nowyouseem033 · Oct 21, 2016

Adstar said:

True people are falling away. and your right they are making a decision to not follow Christ. I know it happens. But again the question is how? How does one who claims to have seen the beauty of Jesus, the joy of sins forgiven and the disgust and there own sins suddenly want to go back. What happened? and why is it that I see the same thing and dot go back? Its because Christ is my Lord and Saviour and i run to him and flee to his mercy seat when confronted with sins etc.

To think one can experience God and then says not good enough and goes back to sin is simply to show that you never understood God or grace in the first place. You never knew what it meant to be forgiven of sins because you ant to go back. Therefore you never were saved in the first place.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 21, 2016

Do you believe that a person can lose their salvation? No

What does it look like? God saves us, He grabs us and holds us, And nothing can remove us from him (even us)

How is it different from questioning our faith? People question all the time.. To me that is different than questioning our salvation. One is based on Gods promises , the other is based on how well we are assured he has out best interests at heart.

RickyZ · Oct 21, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

False "bad works" are called sin, or "works of iniquity" and a servant of sin ABIDES NOT in the Lords house forever.

I have heard so many lies and false doctrine being spread about how ongoing sin will not effect your eternal security in Christ. I am going to prove this idea totally false by the words of Jesus. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, then you will also believe and continue in His words right? Well here goes….

John 8:31-36 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

These words of Jesus are so plain and simple a child could understand them, but sinners will still argue against this very plain and simple truth because they themselves are still committing sins and are servants of sin, and thus they will also try to justify themselves and ongoing sin.

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

People, believing in the Truth according to the words of God has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin. Jesus Christ is the very Word of God, which is Truth and is that Eternal Life. Believe in what Jesus said above, and not the lies and false doctrine of carnally minded men. Believe Jesus when He said you can indeed be set free from the bondage of sin and death.

I could show you where you are wrong, but you're not going to listen and consider anyway, are you?

Grace777x70 · Oct 21, 2016

The son does remain forever in the house.

John 8:35-36 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP] "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.

Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".

If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 21, 2016

RickyZ said:

I already showed this statement of yours to be wrong by scripture--->>>

So no, you cannot prove the words of God to be wrong.

heavenly_bound · Oct 21, 2016

Adstar said:

saying this would imply that our faith becomes the savoir instead of Christ and His atonement!

Secondly salvation is not something that God gives us which we can loose. Something as costly as Salvation cannot be made such that one can loose it as if it were a piece of cloth.

We must not forget that It costed God everything for Him to secure our salvation! It costed Him becoming what He is not by nature( Man) in other to save mankind!!!!!!!

Salvation is found in Christ! It occurs inside of Him and not outside of Him; meaning we are saved bc He included us in Himself such that whatever happened to Him from His incarnation to His session at the hand hand of majesty on high, equally happened to us!

In other words, when Christ was incarnate, He picked up the fallen state of Adam(including all humanity that was in Adam when he( Adam) fell, in Himself(Christ).

So when He died, we died together with Him in His death; and when He was raised from the death, we equally rose together with Him; and when He ascended, we ascended with Him and when He sat down; we equally sat down together with Hims! This explains why we are seated in heavily places in Christ! There is no salvation apart of Christ! Christ did it and we got it!

By virtue of our union with Him, beginning from His incarnation right up to His session at the right hand of Father God, whatever happened to Him equally happened to us.

Therefore for us to be able to loose our salvation, all the 6 steps of salvation( incarnation, Crucifixion, death , burial, quickening, raising, ascension and session) have to first of all be undone:

and since this is an impossibility; so it is with loosing salvation.

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 21, 2016

You can try to "see yourself" or "imagine yourself" as the Queen of England, but that does not make it true now does it? It is God who chooses and anoints His sons, not men "imagining themselves" to be sons of God.

Grace777x70 · Oct 21, 2016

We are to speak what God says is the truth. We walk by faith and not by natural sight.

2 Corinthians 4:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Notice that we are looking at the things that are not seen with the natural eye - not of this world.

Keeping our eyes on Jesus.

Our faith becomes effective ( working in us ) by the acknowledging of the things that are in us in Christ. We have to "see" them first in our own spirit and then we get our minds renewed to the truth of what Christ has done for us.

Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

We believe and speak what God has said about us! We are children of God because we are in Christ. We have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ! He is awesome and mighty to save!

PrynceNY · Oct 21, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

i hope you dont believe in osas (Once Saved Always Saved) because that has already been proven to be a dangerous false doctrine.

mikeys4grace · Oct 21, 2016

nowyouseem033 said:

Hey brother,
I wanted to 'like' this post, but for the end.

There is backsliding, too, and I don't know that it's so much a wanton decision to say ,'Hey, salvation, eternal life, free gift, penalty paid in full by Jesus, no more pain, tears, sorrow or rejection, but love and peace and joy with Him and the family of the saved, etc. ??? NAAAHHHH, no thx! Being saved was fun for a little while, but I think I'll take the pain and torment from now on'.

I think it's more a slip and a slide through some bad decisions, or circumstances, could be many factors, but if that person is saved, God will bring His own home,
either back to the fold, or perhaps even in some cases He might call the person Home.

That's His sovereign decision. But He's not in the business of losing His own.

I just don't believe a truly saved person would or even could ultimately disown themself from being a child of God.

Nor do I think anyone here wants to put it to the test and be the first one, so this OPquestion/discussion is really just far away speculation.

As always, ppl can find scripture to try to bolster their viewpoint, but what's really being called into question is not what man may or may not be capable of, but the goodness, power, and veracity of God.

Did God love you (you, the reader) did God love you enough to pay for your sins, ALL your sins, and give you eternal life as His gift and that's forever settled? Or didn't He.

If He did, then it's forever you're saved...... if He didn't, then you're not saved, and you need to be and can be right here right now, praise the Lord!

A person that isn't saved yet may say they'd rather have hell than salvation, ...ok, then they need to be saved.

And a person that IS saved may even say it, in moments of despair or rebellion or backsliding, etc., but God knows them that are His, and He knows and understands and forgives, and His mercies are new every morning.

If someone decides, though, in the ultimate sense, that they do not want to be saved, they're not a 'once saved person who lost or walked away from salvation' .....
They were never saved to begin with.
We should be about giving assurance a comfort in Christ, not causing doubt about His eternal love, goodness and mercy, and life.

Please take heart and be of good courage and cheer, if you ARE saved, you won't ultimately walk away, He loves you WAAAAYYY too much to let that happen.

Peace and God bless you.

Loss of salvation versus questioning our faith

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