You are saying, a person is saved as long as they continue to believe. I get it. And I'm saying a person who does believe, will continue to believe, because the proof they have overcome is their faith. Our faith shows we've already overcome.
"What non-OSAS means to people like me and chester is the believer can stop believing"
But what you didn't explain is what "stop believing" means. And you don't seem to think continuing to believe is in fact, trying to keep our salvation. Because it's God starting it, but then you're also saying we need to continue in it. I believe you are minimizing Scriptures that say, God is both the author and the finisher of our faith. Because if we need to "continue in faith" in our own ability, WE become the finisher of our own faith.
You could say, well a person needs to continue to love the Lord, but Scripture also says, the more we know His love for us, the more we are filled for love for Him. And it is by getting our sins forgiven that we love Him.
You could also say, well a person might no longer want the ways of God, but Scripture teaches that people are reborn in true righteousness and holiness. And they are dead to sin. We have a new nature that we partake in.
So you might be thinking, well then why does Scripture teach people not to sin? First off, the fact Scripture does teach people they shouldn't sin, shows that true believers still do sin. Because Scripture was written to true believers. Second off, new believers don't understand what Christ has done, who He is, and a myriad of different things that are covered in "discipleship". Scripture calls it growing up in Christ.
Here's a Scripture for you: "those who believe in Me have passed from death to life."
This is a present reality. We are a new creation. The old has gone and the new is here. It's pretty clear cut. Christ became sin for us, so we could become the righteousness of God. If we don't agree with the Scriptures that teach what it looks like to now be born again, we won't come up with proper conclusions. Many people are still seeing believers through a "sinner" lens even though Scripture calls us saints. And so people are still trying to be holy, instead of realizing they ARE holy. And the moment you say, we don't need to try to be holy, they hear we can sin all we want. Well maybe that's what they would do because they aren't truly transformed? Just a thought.
And then it gets even more warped in people's minds, so let me address this now just because we don't need to be afraid of sin doesn't mean we should sin. In fact, Paul when he explains that we are free from sin, answers this question, by saying GOD FORBID, how can we who have died to sin continue in it any longer? So the idea that teaching people they are free from sin that they are free to sin, is as old as time, but still completely incorrect.
Grace is offensive. Even in Scripture times it caused people who were ensnared to religion to be extremely jealous. So much so, that they crucified most of the disciples. Why? Because they came in teaching freedom. And people couldn't handle it. Because in their heart of hearts they still believed people needed to be controlled. Because the fruit of self-control is a spiritual idea that only spiritual people can understand. I'm not saying you believe these things of course, but this is definitely what I see a lot of. People completely misrepresenting the idea of transformative grace.
Yet Paul says the Kingdom of God isn't simply talk, but power. Yet when people believe truly in that power, they claim it's us who don't "understand" Scripture. No, I simply believe it.
