Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It was your word I implied are weeds.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Not two like you said. John's baptism has ended.
Acts 19:3-6
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
To be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
You will be held accountable as well so I strongly suggest you rethink your position on two baptisms when the WORD says there is only one.
Unbelievable. You miss the point about missing the point.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Not two like you said. John's baptism has ended.
Acts 19:3-6
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
To be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
You will be held accountable as well so I strongly suggest you rethink your position on two baptisms when the WORD says there is only one.
Unbelievable. You miss the point about missing the point.
Do all Christians accept his words?
Back then, the word "belly-stomach," was used to indicate what we today refer to as the emotions.
Hence.... "Their god was their emotions." = enemies of the cross of Christ!
Such a way to operate in life produces stubborn thinking.
Demanding one's own preference as to what they want something to mean,
over what something actually meant at the time of writing.
Many settle for what seems right to them.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12)
Proverbs 14:12 is a warning about making decisions based solely on appearances or personal inclination, as seemingly good
choices can have disastrous outcomes. It highlights the importance of seeking wisdom and guidance to avoid paths that lead to destruction.
Jesus warned that the way that leads to destruction is "broad and wide.'
Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and just as you have us as a model,
keep your eyes on those who live as we do. For, as I have often told you before and now tell you
again, even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their destiny is destruction,
their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.
Philippians 3:17-19
Back then, the word "belly-stomach," was used to indicate what we today refer to as the emotions.
Hence.... "Their god was their emotions." = enemies of the cross of Christ!
Such a way to operate in life produces stubborn thinking.
Demanding one's own preference as to what they want something to mean,
over what something actually meant at the time of writing.
Many settle for what seems right to them.
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12)
Proverbs 14:12 is a warning about making decisions based solely on appearances or personal inclination, as seemingly good
choices can have disastrous outcomes. It highlights the importance of seeking wisdom and guidance to avoid paths that lead to destruction.
Jesus warned that the way that leads to destruction is "broad and wide.'
-
1
- Show all
Augustine is the one who "discovered" and propagated" the belief system of Manichaeism which was an ALL INCLUSIVIVE DETERMINISTIC SYSTEM WHICH GOD CONTROLS IN EVERY RESPECT and over which created beings within the system have NO POWER whatsoever.
Although this makes God seem all powerful but it only does so at the price of the depriving creatures of any control whatsoever. THIS is not the God we read about interceding and rescuing the human race from themselves at great cost to Himself. This is not the God who worked within the realm of time and change towards uncertain changes. It is not the Manichean God who effortlessly controls all outcomes. In fact, this is not at all the God who interceded for Israel that they would be saved rather than destroyed. Mani was never in question as to what would happen.
Whether a believer will REMAIN in Christ or CEASE to abide in Him is presented as something that lies very much within his power. He could deviate but if we will follow the Spirit we will continue to walk in Him. The anointing that we have received from Him abides IN US is and enables us to walk in Him. It is WHY we have no need for anyone to teach us and WE have no need that anyone should teach US. The anointing teaches you as we go about EVERYTHING, and is TRUE, and is the reason we have no need to be taught lie taught. God does not mislead us. The same anointing we have received of Him Abides in us and leads us on. We remain in Christ AS the anointing has taught us. We do not naturally have the knowledge. He gives us the necessary insight.
Although this makes God seem all powerful but it only does so at the price of the depriving creatures of any control whatsoever. THIS is not the God we read about interceding and rescuing the human race from themselves at great cost to Himself. This is not the God who worked within the realm of time and change towards uncertain changes. It is not the Manichean God who effortlessly controls all outcomes. In fact, this is not at all the God who interceded for Israel that they would be saved rather than destroyed. Mani was never in question as to what would happen.
Whether a believer will REMAIN in Christ or CEASE to abide in Him is presented as something that lies very much within his power. He could deviate but if we will follow the Spirit we will continue to walk in Him. The anointing that we have received from Him abides IN US is and enables us to walk in Him. It is WHY we have no need for anyone to teach us and WE have no need that anyone should teach US. The anointing teaches you as we go about EVERYTHING, and is TRUE, and is the reason we have no need to be taught lie taught. God does not mislead us. The same anointing we have received of Him Abides in us and leads us on. We remain in Christ AS the anointing has taught us. We do not naturally have the knowledge. He gives us the necessary insight.
First and foremost it deprives God of His Justice, righteousness and love.
John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
John 16:8
And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment:
1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
Ps 9:8
And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.
Ps 96:10
Say among the nations, “The LORD reigns; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved; He will judge the peoples fairly.”
Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
John 12:32
And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”
John 16:8
And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment:
1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.
Ps 9:8
And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.
Ps 96:10
Say among the nations, “The LORD reigns; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved; He will judge the peoples fairly.”
Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
It was your word I implied are weeds.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Not two like you said. John's baptism has ended.
Acts 19:3-6
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
To be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
You will be held accountable as well so I strongly suggest you rethink your position on two baptisms when the WORD says there is only one.
Unbelievable. You miss the point about missing the point.
Ephesians 4:5
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
Not two like you said. John's baptism has ended.
Acts 19:3-6
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”
So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
To be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
You will be held accountable as well so I strongly suggest you rethink your position on two baptisms when the WORD says there is only one.
Unbelievable. You miss the point about missing the point.
1. They were baptized in JESUS name.
2. Paul laid hands on them and JESUS filled them with his spirit.
Being baptized in JESUS name is something WE have to do.
Being filled with the Holy Ghost is something JESUS has to do, NO MAN CAN DO THAT.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
TWO THINGS water and spirit.
When we obey and get baptized in JESUS name we get baptized INTO JESUS.
Romans 6:3-4
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
When JESUS fills us with the Holy Ghost HE COMES INTO US, and you will speak in tongues, as EVERY case in the book of Acts it happened.
BE GREAT if you could back this up!!!!! IF you can't IT'S NOT TRUE.
""To be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit""
I guess you didn't understand that being baptized in Jesus name is being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Name and power are synonymous. They are not two separate events. Once again, ONE baptism. Eph.4:5 God's word, not mine.
And you need to learn the difference between regeneration (born of the Spirit) and baptism (being immersed/submerged in the Spirit). No-one was baptized in the Spirit until the Day of Pentecost. John 7:39
Every believer must be born again in order to understand spiritual matters otherwise they remain as foolishness to them. 1Cor.2:14 Ergo the likes of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, John the Baptist, the Disciples, everyone who believed was born again but no-one was baptized in the Spirit until Pentecost.
I already did. The verse is right there in black and white. What happened when they were baptized in Jesus name?
Acts 19:5-6
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
There is not one single word about water but you assume they were baptized again in water because it says they were baptized in Jesus name. Maybe you should show us where the water is in this verse because if you can't back it up, then it's not true.
The fact that you confuse regeneration and baptism suggests to me you don't fully understand what happens when we are baptized in the Spirit. Jesus lives in us through the word. The more you abide in truth (His word is truth), the more Christlike you become. Being baptized in the Spirit is not automatic Christlikeness, it is only the beginning of the journey. Baptism identifies us with Christ, it puts us in Christ but it is the word that puts Christ in us.
And you need to learn the difference between regeneration (born of the Spirit) and baptism (being immersed/submerged in the Spirit). No-one was baptized in the Spirit until the Day of Pentecost. John 7:39
Every believer must be born again in order to understand spiritual matters otherwise they remain as foolishness to them. 1Cor.2:14 Ergo the likes of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, John the Baptist, the Disciples, everyone who believed was born again but no-one was baptized in the Spirit until Pentecost.
I already did. The verse is right there in black and white. What happened when they were baptized in Jesus name?
Acts 19:5-6
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
There is not one single word about water but you assume they were baptized again in water because it says they were baptized in Jesus name. Maybe you should show us where the water is in this verse because if you can't back it up, then it's not true.
The fact that you confuse regeneration and baptism suggests to me you don't fully understand what happens when we are baptized in the Spirit. Jesus lives in us through the word. The more you abide in truth (His word is truth), the more Christlike you become. Being baptized in the Spirit is not automatic Christlikeness, it is only the beginning of the journey. Baptism identifies us with Christ, it puts us in Christ but it is the word that puts Christ in us.
-
1
- Show all
God knowing the person would choose to believe?
God predestined that soul to be born into the Church age.
Or? Predestined to be alive and believe in the age of the Gentiles.
Or? The age of Israel.
Or? The Millennium.
That is what God predestines for. Predestined those whom He knew would believe.
He does not predestine us to believe.
-
1
- Show all
So you can't show me!! NOTED.
We don't want to ASUME ANYTHING so lets look at what happen before THEY OBEYED and was bapitzed.
Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, ((((Unto John's baptism.))))
HOW DID JOHN BAPTIZE??? WATER!!!!
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
PART 1, THEY WERE BAPTIZED IN JESUS NAME.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
PART 2, THEY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST.
Question have YOU received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues? HOW WERE YOU BAPTIZED?
-
1
- Show all
Actually, there are only two groups of people. Those with the ongoing "Fruits". or habit and way of life actions, attitudes, responses that prove them to be true Christians, and those with the "Fruits". or habit and way of life actions, attitudes, responses that prove them to be still lost and headed for hell, in spite of their belief that Jesus is their Lord, God and savior, and even with all the same signs, wonders and miracles the true Christians of the 1st century possessed. Jesus says each group is distinct and can never possess the fruits of the other group. Mat. 7:15-23 And Jesus says those who truly are true Christians can never exhibit the fruits of those who are lost in the same passage.
Noone ever "Loses" the fruits of salvation once possessed, and no one can keep the fruits of being lost and headed for hell once they change groups. Unless Jesus lied, those backsliding who do not physically sick, weak or die as a result, (1Co. 11:29-32, Example: 1Co. 5: 1-5, Not to pray for those who are sinning unto death 1Jn, 5:16-17) never were true Christians. Heb. 12:6-8 ... and, according to Jesus in Maty. 7:13-23, almost everyone who believes themselves to be Christian, even with all the signs and wonders of the true Christians, are still one of the "Many" on the broad path that leads to destruction, and not one of the few on the agonizing path that leads to the narrow gate that leads to hell.
This is not about having become a true Christian, and then losing your salvation or "giving it up". Those in this category never ever were saved in the first place, regardless of what they believe or don't believe.
Ther problem is, there are 10,000 different belief groups in the world, one of which is Christianity. Christianity has 45,000 belief groups in it, all with differing and conflicting core beliefs. (Or they'd be in with one of the other groups.) and every person in the world, Christian, or Not, believes they both love truth and have the truth (Or enough of it) to hold fast to their current beliefs as truth, and to reject all opposing beliefs as lies. Thus, the standard of evaluation of themselves and others to see if they have truth and love truth for all these belief groups is, do your core beliefs align with those of myself and the group who agrees with me.
Unfortunately, that's 10,000 different non-Christian belief groups judging each other's beliefs based on this standard, and 45,000 different belief groups evaluating the salvation of themselves and others based on their own beliefs. For every group evaluating salvation by their beliefs, God says they have absolutely no understanding of the topic of salvation at all.
Noone ever "Loses" the fruits of salvation once possessed, and no one can keep the fruits of being lost and headed for hell once they change groups. Unless Jesus lied, those backsliding who do not physically sick, weak or die as a result, (1Co. 11:29-32, Example: 1Co. 5: 1-5, Not to pray for those who are sinning unto death 1Jn, 5:16-17) never were true Christians. Heb. 12:6-8 ... and, according to Jesus in Maty. 7:13-23, almost everyone who believes themselves to be Christian, even with all the signs and wonders of the true Christians, are still one of the "Many" on the broad path that leads to destruction, and not one of the few on the agonizing path that leads to the narrow gate that leads to hell.
This is not about having become a true Christian, and then losing your salvation or "giving it up". Those in this category never ever were saved in the first place, regardless of what they believe or don't believe.
Mat 7:23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were never really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were never really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
Ther problem is, there are 10,000 different belief groups in the world, one of which is Christianity. Christianity has 45,000 belief groups in it, all with differing and conflicting core beliefs. (Or they'd be in with one of the other groups.) and every person in the world, Christian, or Not, believes they both love truth and have the truth (Or enough of it) to hold fast to their current beliefs as truth, and to reject all opposing beliefs as lies. Thus, the standard of evaluation of themselves and others to see if they have truth and love truth for all these belief groups is, do your core beliefs align with those of myself and the group who agrees with me.
Unfortunately, that's 10,000 different non-Christian belief groups judging each other's beliefs based on this standard, and 45,000 different belief groups evaluating the salvation of themselves and others based on their own beliefs. For every group evaluating salvation by their beliefs, God says they have absolutely no understanding of the topic of salvation at all.
2Co 10:12 For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding.
"Backsliding" of a true Christian is not a thing. True Christians don't, unless they are sick, weak and/or heading for physical death. True Christians are judged now. They don't lose their salvation, even if they are actively performing sins even the Gentiles would cringe at, and are also non-repentant. See 1Co. 5:5. God reproves those He loves. There is no becoming a non-child after becoming a child. If you are a child and misbehave, sickness, weakness, or, if you really misbehave, or keep on misbehaving in minor ways, and fail to judge yourself, God will take you home so you are no longer an embarrassment to Him.