Loss of salvation???

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Jul 31, 2013
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How do we get HIS blood on our door post?
He that builds an house, the same prepares the Door.

Genesis 3:21​
for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
Zechariah 3:4-5​
Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying,
"Take away the filthy garments from him."
And to him He said,
"See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes.
And I said,
Let them put a clean turban on his head."
So they put a clean turban on his head, and they put the clothes on him.
And the Angel of the LORD stood by.
Luke 15:22​
the Father said to His servants,
Bring out the best robe and put it on him

1 Timothy 6:8-9​
And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition.
 
Jul 31, 2013
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God gave IT TO HIM to disclose and make known TO HIS BONDSERVANTS
...
Why then do people keep forcing what was written to His bond servants, to everyone? Yet They do.
you mean the disclosing and the making known?

i suppose because we all hold onto a hope that eventually a wind will lift away the fog, as dawn rises.
 
Jul 31, 2013
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explain how do those verse show us how a person TODAY to be reborn or saved?
:rolleyes:

13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
 
Jul 31, 2013
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explain how do those verse show us how a person TODAY to be reborn or saved?
:rolleyes:

13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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The ones who would not accept his words.
Remember he had been talking about those very people throughout the ot israel had a relationship with God and there was a lot of water under the bridge they had been breaking and defiling his covenant for generations rejecting his word constantly which is why Jerusalem and it’s temple was destroyed about 1950 years ago.

israels relationship with God is a very tumultuous one because they continually rejected his word and created alternatives
 

Pilgrimshope

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Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:18

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“…. Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

…But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:22-23, 25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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however it's not.

the only way to get rid of our sins is what Christ did for us at the cross

do you believe this?
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:36-38‬ ‭

theres what Jesus did for us that provides remission of sins

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭

that’s the source and then there’s what we are told to do if we believe Jesus Christ died for our sins

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,”

if jesus hadn’t died for our sins and rose again baptism would be meaningless but it’s meaning for us who believe is what Jesus did on the cross to remit our sins that’s what gives baptism any meanin at all to God and to believers in him

So you can see how baptism relates here
Clearly

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

believing Jesus died for our sins and that’s the piece of our forgivness , shouldn’t remove the doctrine we’re taught to act upon like baptism for remission of sins . Our belief should be the reason we take the doctrines seriously and to mean what his word says they mean

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when a person gets baptized knowingly and believing they have Gods own word witnessing that they have obeyed what he said for them to do for remission of thier sins .

New belief always leads to a new action based on faith that’s coming from the word they preached the doctrine I mean all the things they were teaching us behaviors but also things like communion that also is about Jesus sacrifice for us and is an act of faith that we do because he told us to do it and why we are doing it .

If we believe Jesus died for our sins that is the only real reason TO get baptized in his name, and isn’t the reason it becomes in important or doesn’t mean what it says. It should rather be the reason we think baptism is for remission of sins
 
Jul 31, 2013
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Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:18
so clear

@Ouch are you seeing this?

so then what does this tell us about whether the salvation He purchased for us is secure?

((security of salvation being the actual thread topic))
 
Jul 31, 2013
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“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:36-38‬ ‭

theres what Jesus did for us that provides remission of sins

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭

that’s the source and then there’s what we are told to do if we believe Jesus Christ died for our sins

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,”

if jesus hadn’t died for our sins and rose again baptism would be meaningless but it’s meaning for us who believe is what Jesus did on the cross to remit our sins that’s what gives baptism any meanin at all to God and to believers in him

So you can see how baptism relates here
Clearly

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

believing Jesus died for our sins and that’s the piece of our forgivness , shouldn’t remove the doctrine we’re taught to act upon like baptism for remission of sins . Our belief should be the reason we take the doctrines seriously and to mean what his word says they mean

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when a person gets baptized knowingly and believing they have Gods own word witnessing that they have obeyed what he said for them to do for remission of thier sins .

New belief always leads to a new action based on faith that’s coming from the word they preached the doctrine I mean all the things they were teaching us behaviors but also things like communion that also is about Jesus sacrifice for us and is an act of faith that we do because he told us to do it and why we are doing it .

If we believe Jesus died for our sins that is the only real reason TO get baptized in his name, and isn’t the reason it becomes in important or doesn’t mean what it says. It should rather be the reason we think baptism is for remission of sins
lack of baptism never damned anyone.
but unbelief condemns the whole world
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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the church sadly isn't very different in that regard.
amen God foresaw this and foretold it

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭


Mine heart within me is broken because of the prophets; all my bones shake; I am like a drunken man, and like a man whom wine hath overcome, because of the LORD, and because of the words of his holiness. For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right. For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD. Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the LORD. And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.

I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.

Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. (<< This is what alot of Christian teachers do ) I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.


But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭23:9-17, 21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬


If we just tell people bout Jesus and what he said will save us it’s always going to lead to thier salvation of the hearken
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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so clear

@Ouch are you seeing this?

so then what does this tell us about whether the salvation He purchased for us is secure?

((security of salvation being the actual thread topic))
i think it says alot if we accept the word of truth

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s our security and his Will but also what does he say about if we reject his word ?

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That word of truth is really important

Things like this should make us feel confident if we trust Jesus

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Im not perfect the sinner knows in himself , but if i forgive others Jesus says I’ll be forgiven , if I don’t go around judging others while I myself am less than perfect Jesus says I won’t be judged if i don’t condemn he says I won’t be condemned

It’s important to first accept the word of truth because that’s what changes us and writes his words and ways on our hearts like that above that’s a law of Jesus

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See the security is when we hear and believe him it’s not just there regardless we have to accept the truth Jesus came to tell mankind

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:1-2‬ ‭

ashen oauls talking in Roman’s 2 about judgement he’s trying to get them to stop passing judgement on one another because they’re gonna need mercy at judgement day and just as James is saying here

“For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭

If we aren’t merciful like Jesus taught in the gospel then we can’t expect to receive it come judgement day . When we judge and condemn others while we also are sinners we’re actually condemning our own self come judgement day

thats what Paul’s saying here

“Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:1, 3-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul is warning then to stop judging and condemning each other because at judgement we’re going to need mercy so we need to do what Jesus taught and be merciful , forgive others when they sin against us , not judge people as if we’re thier judge we aren’t we also have to be judged by the same lord

He reiterates it later in the letter so it must have been a real problem among them

“But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

( we don’t have to answer for what anyone else does they’ll face Jesus judgement also so then he concludes )

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Our Security is found in believing the things Jesus said in the gospel his word won’t fail but it needs to be his word on the matter . If we believe we shouldn’t worry about damnation but if we find that we are always rejecting what Jesus said in the gospel and claiming eternal security we’re missing the message
 

Ouch

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2 Kings 6:17​
And Elisha prayed, and said,
"LORD, I pray, open his eyes that he may see."
Then the LORD opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw. And behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
What does that have to do with this?

JESUS says we must be born of WATER, meaning being baptized and filled with his spirit.

Don't know what to say so just say anything?
 

Ouch

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May 24, 2025
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Galatians 6:14​
God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ
Well I will keep you in my prayers, dusting my feet and walking away.

Keep in mind when you stand in front of JESUS he will be judging you from his book ALL OF IT.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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lack of baptism never damned anyone.
but unbelief condemns the whole world
Yeah it doesn’t say anywhere that lack of baptism condemns anyone

It also is clear the what purpose of getting baptized is. It’s a matter of hearing the doctrine at that point the person who believes will get baptized but we need to hear the truth of what it’s for to act by faith .

bro I’m not even suggesting anything about lack of baptism I’m just saying it’s really clear doctrine and we’ll explained in the epistles and gospel

baotism in some minds is just water and has no real meaning until this happens

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭

baptisms value is what god said about it faith regarding baptism is in the doctrine when we hear it it should have some new value

“Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-7, 11-13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

all I’m saying is we should start acknowledging what baptism is rather than argue about “ if someone doesn’t get baptized will this damn them? “

The idea is to understand it’s purpose and operate from tbat faith

“In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭NIV‬‬

see my point is if I’m willing to learn and accept what Paul’s saying baptism is about and means …. What believer won’t want to go get baptized ? But I’m saying if they are willing to listen to the word telling us about it.

a there’s nothing in the Bible that says “ if you don’t get baptized your lost “

but what is on the Bible clearly is the meaning and purpose of baptism for remission of sins in Christ Jesus. The thing to really do is discuss what is there regarding baptism and not worry about what isn’t there if we hear what it is in the doctrine it becomes a gift of grace we’re glad to partake of because we believe the words statements about it
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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JESUS says we must be born of WATER
and so we are, by His Word.

Genesis 1:20​
God said,
"Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens."
isn't He Wonderful?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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a there’s nothing in the Bible that says “ if you don’t get baptized your lost “

but what is on the Bible clearly is the meaning and purpose of baptism for remission of sins in Christ Jesus. The thing to really do is discuss what is there regarding baptism and not worry about what isn’t there if we hear what it is in the doctrine it becomes a gift of grace we’re glad to partake of because we believe the words statements about it
this is a thread about the security/insecurity of salvation.

what's to discuss is that - - but aunts and uncles love to let children play, while the parents groan about their bedtime ;)
 

posthuman

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Jul 31, 2013
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see my point is if I’m willing to learn and accept what Paul’s saying baptism is about and means …. What believer won’t want to go get baptized ? But I’m saying if they are willing to listen to the word telling us about it.
absotively posilutely!

i don't understand anyone who refuses to be baptized, who has believed. there's a fundamental disconnect. I can only assume it's ignorance

someone who would rather talk about baptism than Christ, i similarly see grave doctrinal problems in.

it's like Peter said when he saw that unbaptized Gentiles received the Holy Spirit immediately upon believing - - wow, who can forbid water???

but the other side of the coin is the bronze sero nt Moses lifted up, became Nehushtuan, an idol, and had to be destroyed.

people are people. they made idols of the serpent, idols of the temple, idols of being Jewish, idols of curcumcusion - and all those things became worthless that were given as signs and symbols of Christ.
today, just as tragically, we have idols made of sabbath, of tithes, of baptism, of kjv, of free will, of tongues, of any and everything anyone can receive or do.

how do we combat this? what do we point the sword at? imo the only path is to continually give God glory for everything. if i will be reprimanded for giving Him the oo much praise, i prefer it to being reprimanded for giving NG Him to little.

i have nothing He had not provided me; without Him i am utterly void