Loss of salvation???

[sawdust]

Whoops

That is a lot of whoops but don't worry about it, the forum has been steadily getting worse for me in terms of throwing out constant errors. It is taking me an average of ten tries to get on and then half the time my posts won't post, or at least that it what appears to happen but then i find it has double posted.

It's all designed to teach us patience.

 

[sawdust]

"the answer of a good conscience toward God"

I can see water doing that on an emotional level but I'll rely on the word and the Spirit to clear my conscience.

 

[Cameron143]

Why would Jesus would command His followers to apply that which is symbolic when His death and resurrection paved the way for the reality? It would be a complete waste of time looking for water to baptize people when they could be evangelizing. And yes, I do think Phillip didn't understand how everything was to work initially along with the rest of the disciples. Why should anyone be surprised by that? They were told to go and make disciples of all the nations but then were taken aback when Cornelius, a Gentile, is incorporated. They had to learn the same way we all do and many a time it is through our mistakes that drives us back into the word of God to see where we went wrong.

Anyone who is not sealed with the Spirit doesn't belong to God. We are sealed when we believe, it is a part of what happens when we are baptized with the Spirit into Christ. Our experience does not teach us about God, it is that error that leads to cults. Our experience confirms God's word as true. A lot of the debates we have in this forum is because people rely on their experience to inform them of God's way rather than being informed by the word.

My life is what proclaims my faith, not getting wet. You see the command to be carried out by means of water, I see it carried out by means of teaching the truth. You can rely on water if you want, as for me I'll stick with the word and the Spirit to do what water can never do.

You gave no answer for why Philip baptized the eunuch in water. Why didn't Philip say don't worry about water, just find a good teacher?

You conflate the sealing of the Spirit with the indwelling of the Spirit. They are not the same. One is inward, nonexperiential, and performed by the Holy Spirit...1 Corinthians 12:13. Through it we are placed into the body of Christ. The baptism with the Spirit is very experiential, done by Christ, and gives assurance and power to the believer...Ephesians 1:13-14. It is evidenced throughout the book of Acts when the Spirit falls on believers.

I don't rely on water, but on God. And I imagine your faith is characterized by obedience as well. Ascribing things to me that I don't believe doesn't help your argument. It merely shows the weakness of it.

 

[BillyBob]

why would God need to be baptized with His own Spirit?

​

Why would Christ need to be baptized at all – Water or Spirit?
Why would a voice come from heaven saying Matthew 3:17?
I believe that it was to announce to the world that Christ is the promised one!

Obviously you did not read my disclaimer below.....

 

[Musicmaster]

Why would Christ need to be baptized at all – Water or Spirit?
Why would a voice come from heaven saying Matthew 3:17?
I believe that it was to announce to the world that Christ is the promised one!

Obviously you did not read my disclaimer below.....

Christ HAD to be baptized, but not for the same reason as the Jews in the ancient Church.

As an Israeli, I've been made quite aware of the reasoning being that the priests of ancient Israel had to be cleansed at age 30...get the picture. Christ, for Him to become our High Priest, also fulfilled the cleansing ritual required by His own Law, at age 30...

MM

 

[posthuman]

I can see water doing that on an emotional level but I'll rely on the word and the Spirit to clear my conscience.

i was baptized because of a good conscience, not in order to achieve one - - i think that's completely in line with what Peter said about it.

 

[posthuman]

Why would Christ need to be baptized at all – Water or Spirit?
Why would a voice come from heaven saying Matthew 3:17?
I believe that it was to announce to the world that Christ is the promised one!

Obviously you did not read my disclaimer below.....

disclaimer..?

i agree it is signifying the beginning of His ministry, and signifying Who He is - but i almost had the impression that you were saying He received the Spirit at that time, which, i am not sure makes sense.

i believe He is never-not-God, so, He never lacked His own Holy Spirit.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

(1) The Israelites coming to John for baptism had no idea of a New Covenant. They were coming to identify with the coming Messiah he preached, a Messiah of the Old Covenant.
Au contraire, John's message and preparatory message baptism was not merely a rehash of the OT law and prophets. In fact, after the initial proclamation it was accompanied by the PERSONAL APPEARANCE OF THE MESSIAH HIMSELF. WHO OFFERED HIMSELF AS THE PROMISE OF REDEMPTION.

(2) The offer was made to all people: 'as it has been written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying: “The voice of one shouting in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the Lord; make straight His paths. 5 Every valley will be filled and every mountain and hill will be made low; the crooked will be made straight, and the rough into smooth paths; 6 and ALL FLESH will see the salvation of God.

(3) He had not come to renew the Mosaic covenant but to make a NEW COVENANT that could save anyone even all the nations:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, [a]though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34)