Loss of salvation???

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DeanM

Well-known member
May 4, 2021
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682
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It really isn't the public's business whether one is saved or not. It is between God and the individual. If another wants to know one's salvation status then ....

Matthew 7:16
You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Its a church thing. I wanted to do it.
 

sawdust

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2024
1,503
348
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Australia
Its a church thing. I wanted to do it.
I don't say you can't if you want to, but it is no longer necessary. Unfortunately there are those who insist on it. Christ gave the Church no sacrament but the Lord's Supper and He made it very clear that His baptism would be with the Spirit, not water.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
22,938
7,825
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I don't say you can't if you want to, but it is no longer necessary. Unfortunately there are those who insist on it. Christ gave the Church no sacrament but the Lord's Supper and He made it very clear that His baptism would be with the Spirit, not water.
Jesus didn't command baptism? Not part of the great commission?
 

sawdust

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2024
1,503
348
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Australia
Circumcision is the sign of salvation by grace thru faith, Abraham being the archetype.
@NightTwister was right about circumcision being a sign of the Old Covenant. If it is a sign of salvation by grace through faith then every male ever born who believed should have been circumcised. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. How that salvation was/is to be worked changed through the age ie. by conscience, by the Law (Torah), by Spirit filled.

It's always been my understanding that circumcision was designed to teach, that in order for a person to enter a relationship with God, sin must be shed. The foreskin is a symbol of the sin nature hence, today circumcision is no longer required because Christ has dealt with the sin issue permanently.
 

DeanM

Well-known member
May 4, 2021
1,027
682
113
I don't say you can't if you want to, but it is no longer necessary. Unfortunately there are those who insist on it. Christ gave the Church no sacrament but the Lord's Supper and He made it very clear that His baptism would be with the Spirit, not water.
Yes I undeestand.
 

sawdust

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2024
1,503
348
83
68
Australia
Jesus didn't command baptism? Not part of the great commission?
Did He command baptism in water?

Here is some irony for you. Israel was baptized into Moses. The Red Sea (water) never touched them. Noah was baptized into the Ark, the flood (water) never touched him. Go figure hey! :)
 

BillyBob

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2023
704
331
63
Texas
In the New Testament, Jesus is referred to as the "Anointed One" or Messiah, highlighting his role as the ultimate prophet, priest, and king.
Jesus' baptism was not for remission of sin, it was a baptism by the Holy Spirit, signifying the beginning of Jesus' ministry and his role as the Messiah.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
22,938
7,825
113
63
Did He command baptism in water?

Here is some irony for you. Israel was baptized into Moses. The Red Sea (water) never touched them. Noah was baptized into the Ark, the flood (water) never touched him. Go figure hey! :)
Are you saying that the commandment to go to all the world baptizing...wasn't water baptism?
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
2,173
1,014
113
It really isn't the public's business whether one is saved or not. It is between God and the individual. If another wants to know one's salvation status then ....

Matthew 7:16
You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
And what are "fruits?" Since an unbeliever can feed the poor, live as a popper, be nice, follow the laws, get dunked in a tank and act like a believer........What are the fruits that we know other believers by?

Bible Doctrine and true motives.

The folks who judge others salvation are the very ones that need to take a serious look in the mirror.
 
Jul 31, 2013
38,855
13,888
113
Here is some irony for you. Israel was baptized into Moses. The Red Sea (water) never touched them. Noah was baptized into the Ark, the flood (water) never touched him. Go figure hey! :)
here's some more irony - baptism is symbolic drowning just as much as it is symbolic washing - - and because Christ rose, death can't touch us!
 
Jul 31, 2013
38,855
13,888
113
And what are "fruits?" Since an unbeliever can feed the poor, live as a popper, be nice, follow the laws, get dunked in a tank and act like a believer........What are the fruits that we know other believers by?

Bible Doctrine and true motives.

The folks who judge others salvation are the very ones that need to take a serious look in the mirror.
gentleness, long-suffering, meekness, to name a few, yes
 
Jul 31, 2013
38,855
13,888
113
In the New Testament, Jesus is referred to as the "Anointed One" or Messiah, highlighting his role as the ultimate prophet, priest, and king.
Jesus' baptism was not for remission of sin, it was a baptism by the Holy Spirit, signifying the beginning of Jesus' ministry and his role as the Messiah.
why would God need to be baptized with His own Spirit?

:coffee::unsure:
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
22,938
7,825
113
63
And what are "fruits?" Since an unbeliever can feed the poor, live as a popper, be nice, follow the laws, get dunked in a tank and act like a believer........What are the fruits that we know other believers by?

Bible Doctrine and true motives.

The folks who judge others salvation are the very ones that need to take a serious look in the mirror.
The fruit of the Spirit is found in Galatians 5:22-23.
 
Jul 31, 2013
38,855
13,888
113
If it is a sign of salvation by grace through faith then every male ever born who believed should have been circumcised.
not everyone need display every sign.

when i take an exit from the motorway, what use is it for me to be told what restaurants were 4 exits before?
 
Jul 31, 2013
38,855
13,888
113
I don't say you can't if you want to, but it is no longer necessary. Unfortunately there are those who insist on it. Christ gave the Church no sacrament but the Lord's Supper and He made it very clear that His baptism would be with the Spirit, not water.
i do not believe salvation is by H2O baptism.
but i do believe everyone who is saved should be H2O baptized, even today - - once.
 
Jul 3, 2015
64,984
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The fruit of the Spirit is found in Galatians 5:22-23.

Galatians 5 verses 22-24 ~ The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
:)
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
2,173
1,014
113
The fruit of the Spirit is found in Galatians 5:22-23.
Many, many unbelievers have all those qualities. And fulfill them everyday.


Hebrews 5:13-14
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
24,668
8,994
113
@NightTwister was right about circumcision being a sign of the Old Covenant. If it is a sign of salvation by grace through faith then every male ever born who believed should have been circumcised. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. How that salvation was/is to be worked changed through the age ie. by conscience, by the Law (Torah), by Spirit filled.

It's always been my understanding that circumcision was designed to teach, that in order for a person to enter a relationship with God, sin must be shed. The foreskin is a symbol of the sin nature hence, today circumcision is no longer required because Christ has dealt with the sin issue permanently.
[Col 2:11 KJV]
In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

[Phl 3:3 KJV]
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.