Love and law

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

The bible shows us clearly that the heart of the law is love:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul shows us clearly that love fulfils the law. This is not however a new revelation as this comes straight from the Old Testament.

In regards to the 10 commandments it is said:

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

There are many such statements in the Old Testament that show that even then love was the governing rule of the law.

The question is then, does or can love change?

Paul would suggest it is the major constant even into eternity, see 1 Cor 13.

So why does God give this love in the form of a law/10 commandments?

Well its simple, If a group of people who are all different in personality etc are going to live together and have freedom of choice then there has to be some governing rules, and those rules are based on love.

For example if two people want to play with the same toy, selfishness would say do whatever you need to get the toy. Eg steal it, kill the other person for it etc. But love respects that the other person has freedom also and thus will try and work out a way to deal with the issue without killing or stealing. Maybe sharing etc.

So naturally the last six commandments make sense.

But what about the first four. Well they are based on the same principle, namely "love"

Just as the last six as seen in Romans deal with love to each other so the first four deal with the unchanging principle of love and freedom for God.

These are the two great commandments the first being love to God:

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

So lets examine the first four quickly in light of the bible revelation of love and freedom working together.

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

The reality hear is that there is only one God full stop. So how can we love God and put other people or beings or things as God or equal to God? to do so would be to steal Gods right to be recognised simply as He is. Love would never think to take this truth away from God. Just as love would respect and acknowledge the head of the house, namely the parents. Thus to honour mother and father. Love is the basis of the whole law thus those who have true unselfish agape love will obey this commandment by nature of the love God gives us.

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

God is beyond our ability to create or capture in any physical way. even words escape us to describe God. So if Love is our ruling attribute in life, then we could not even conceive trying to make and image of God. Let alone to give worship to that much lesser representation. Just as we would not like to have people represent us by a photo with our head on a pigs body etc. Love can not do this as it degrades and misrepresents the truth.

Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

As representatives of God we know that everything we do impacts His name. People will look at us and deduce what God is like by those who carry His name. Thus love for God would prevent us from doing or saying things that would hurt or misrepresent or degrade God to anyone else. Love is the governing rule. Just as a company ambassador does all they can to represent their bosses when they love what their company represents. So as to give others are true and flattering picture of what they represent.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Now the most ignored and rejected part of the law, yet to reject it is to reject the overarching or core of the law which is love. God our Father asks us to remember something and it is not an arbitrary something it actually holds deep meaning for all who believe God is the creator he claims to be.

We owe our existence to God as creator, without this event we don't exist. without this event there is no being nor salvation. It was Gods love that created us with free choice knowing that we would turn from Him and that He would have to save us. In knowing this God made a day different from all others, the cap the climax of creation, within it lay the very nature of God as both creator and giver of life. But also the DNA of the Gospel that we rest in Gods works for us and rely on his provision for all our needs.

In remembering this day we are both reminded of Gods love for us but also in entering into this active remembering we declare our love for who God is as creator and provider of our needs. Salvation is nothing more than a loving God providing for our needs as sinners. It is not an addition to Gods character but a further revelation of the character revealed in creation.

The bible calls the Sabbath a holy convocation, Which means a gathering to worship the creator God. God is literally the only earthly reason to chose the 7th day to do this. thus by doing so it can not be seen as anything but an act of worship towards the one true God.

It is no less important than the other 9 as it like the other nine is nothing but an expression of love. The Jews need it spelled out because they were carnal just as we are. We loved self more than God or our fellow human beings. So God spelled out some essential rules that those who have Gods love in their heart will be seen doing. But to those who have received this love in their hearts these things become natural desires.

If love is the truth and governing rule of the law, then the law applies to all of us and forever. None of the 10 will ever change because love will never change.

Ps for those who would do more study. Notice that the extra laws are also based on love. The reason we don't follow them all is because our circumstances are different. Love remains but how it looks adapts the the society we live in and the cultures we live in. For example they did not use prisons so someone who was judges as a thief might serve their time as a slave to the one they hurt etc. Love pays its debts to the one it owes. Today that person would pay their debt in prison under the government.

So why are the 10 there? Because these don't change under any circumstances or cultures. The 10 look the same in any condition. Love will never steal no matter what. Love to God and love to man the 10 bring the universal cross culture standards.

blessings.

Magenta · Apr 5, 2017

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]In the New Testament epistles there are only 2 references to the Sabbath (Col.2:16; Heb.4:4), both these passages the apostle Paul clearly explains that this day is not a required day to be observed by Christians. To the Hebrews in the Old Covenant they were under obligation, in the New Covenant neither Jews nor Gentiles are. There is no command after the death and resurrection for the Church to keep the Sabbath as an obligation to Christ. http://www.letusreason.org/7thAd9.htm[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The Sabbath prefigured Christ, in Whom we are to find our rest from works of the law for salvation, which He fulfilled.

Embankment · Apr 5, 2017

The original sin is man not putting full trust in God. It began in the garden with Adam & Eve. The laws of Moses or 10 commandments were given to the Jews to show ownership of sin. Jesus taught under the Old Will and Testament. He showed us that the law is absolute. It is Black or white. It's satisfied or it's not. To this day not one person born of man has satisfied the law. That is why it was given, to show we could not keep it. Each one of us is guiltily under the OT law. We are all eternally dead. Fortunately, Jesus paid the price of sin by being the final sacrifice and satisfying the OT. With Jesus death and reserection we live in the New Testament that is governed by grace. God simply asks that we love him and one another. The commandment to love is all there is.

Johnny_B · Apr 5, 2017

Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

Magenta said:

How do you harmonise this that you have said with the Bible truth that the law which includes the Sabbath was an expression of love even back when it was given? I would suggest that Paul does not say what you have said here, that rather you came to those passages with that Idea already and thus read it into what Paul says. Love remains in the New covenant just as it was the main point of the Old. can you demonstrate how love has changed in regards to the old and new covenant? remember the issue is not just a day here it is love. When one approaches the Sabbath they should do so in regards to its biblical principle of love.

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

Embankment said:

Love is all there is, it just so happens that you can't separate the 10 commandments form love. That is there very nature and the way they must be understood. If you obey it as just a law of letters you will be a pharisee. But if you ignore them as simply a law of letters then you will be a Pagan. But if you take them as the law of love towards God and man they are accepted in the way they are meant to be. When we see we break the law it shows we do not love as God would have us love. We in fact can't in our natural state. But when God gives us his love through the Holy Spirit we have new natures and are new creations. love and obedience to the commandments are when viewed right one and the same thing. One can't exist without the other. However we can grow in it as we learn more about God.

Embankment · Apr 5, 2017

gotime said:

Love is all there is, it just so happens that you can't separate the 10 commandments form love. That is there very nature and the way they must be understood. If you obey it as just a law of letters you will be a pharisee. But if you ignore them as simply a law of letters then you will be a Pagan. But if you take them as the law of love towards God and man they are accepted in the way they are meant to be. When we see we break the law it shows we do not love as God would have us love. We in fact can't in our natural state. But when God gives us his love through the Holy Spirit we have new natures and are new creations. love and obedience to the commandments are when viewed right one and the same thing. One can't exist without the other. However we can grow in it as we learn more about God.

You are over complicating what is simple

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

Embankment said:

How so? Just the question the rest of this is to satisfy the required amount of words needed to post. lol now I have gone over the amount I needed.

Embankment · Apr 5, 2017

gotime said:

Only my openion but all that love business just doesn't apply to the 10 commandments. The reason they were given was to show that we cannot save ourselves. Jesus diying on the cross was the ultimate act of love. It saved us from eternal damnation. Love applies in that sense.

Johnny_B · Apr 5, 2017

Matthew 11:28-30 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Check out how 12:1 starts, it is very possible that Jesus said this on the Sabbath, He did teach a lot on the Sabbath..

12:1-2, 6-8 "At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!”

........Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Jesus is our sabbath rest.

Blain · Apr 5, 2017

You know David never saw the law as a curse in fact he would often boast of God's law he would proclaim it a crown upon his head even though so often broke it in the most sinful manner why is this? This is because what he had with God was an actual love and relationship it was the love he and God shared that allowed this law to be such a blessing to him.

To not steal to not lie to not murder to not have any Gods before him we all know the law we all know how it was and even still is viewed but look at the ten commandments and ask yourself if you did not have love in your heart if you did not have an actual love and bond with God could you even begin to fulfill any of these ten simple things? The law was made and shows our sins and what we are lacking yes this is true but this was not the only purpose of the law it was also made specifically so that only one with love in their hearts could fulfill the law, not love as we humans know of but the love that comes from God alone.

The law cannot be without love because you cannot understand and fulfill the law without love just as you cannot understand what it means to be a christian and cannot ever truly be a christian without love in your heart and in the same manner you cannot ever truly know God or understand him without love in your hearts. To view discuss or even try to understand the law without seeing through loves eyes is pointless for you will forever remain blind to the truth hidden within the truth

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

Embankment said:

I can agree with most of this except the first sentence. I would suggest that you edit your opinion to match what the bible says. Paul clearly says that love fulfils the law. The Old testament clearly shows love is the core of the 10 in Deut. Even some saw this as Jesus asked the question:

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

That this is connected to the 10 commandments there is no question for those who have studies the Old Testament, but it is clear that these are connected as Paul says in Romans:

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So there is no question that Paul saw love as directly connected to the 10 commandments.

James also makes it clear:

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

so it is clear but note that he says "according to the scripture" He is getting this from the Old Testament scriptures in his day. There is no doubt that love is connected and in fact central to the 10 commandments.

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

Blain said:

You know David never saw the law as a curse in fact he would often boast of God's law he would proclaim it a crown upon his head even though so often broke it in the most sinful manner why is this? This is because what he had with God was an actual love and relationship it was the love he and God shared that allowed this law to be such a blessing to him.

To not steal to not lie to not murder to not have any Gods before him we all know the law we all know how it was and even still is viewed but look at the ten commandments and ask yourself if you did not have love in your heart if you did not have an actual love and bond with God could you even begin to fulfill any of these ten simple things? The law was made and shows our sins and what we are lacking yes this is true but this was not the only purpose of the law it was also made specifically so that only one with love in their hearts could fulfill the law, not love as we humans know of but the love that comes from God alone.

The law cannot be without love because you cannot understand and fulfill the law without love just as you cannot understand what it means to be a christian and cannot ever truly be a christian without love in your heart and in the same manner you cannot ever truly know God or understand him without love in your hearts. To view discuss or even try to understand the law without seeing through loves eyes is pointless for you will forever remain blind to the truth hidden within the truth

Amen, love is the key and that love is a gift that comes through Christ. That is why the Jews missed it they kept the letter but not the spirit of the law which is the love of God. They did not feed the hungry or cloth the naked etc Isiah 58. Love was missing when they looked at the law.

Embankment · Apr 5, 2017

gotime said:

I can agree with most of this except the first sentence. I would suggest that you edit your opinion to match what the bible says. Paul clearly says that love fulfils the law. The Old testament clearly shows love is the core of the 10 in Deut. Even some saw this as Jesus asked the question:

Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

That this is connected to the 10 commandments there is no question for those who have studies the Old Testament, but it is clear that these are connected as Paul says in Romans:

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So there is no question that Paul saw love as directly connected to the 10 commandments.

James also makes it clear:

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

so it is clear but note that he says "according to the scripture" He is getting this from the Old Testament scriptures in his day. There is no doubt that love is connected and in fact central to the 10 commandments.

The Bible is not just a stream of unrelated text. It must be examined in context.

Grace777x70 · Apr 5, 2017

Johnny_B said:

I agree. In fact the only ones breaking the Sabbath today in the New Covenant are those that are not resting in Christ and resting in His finished work on the cross and resurrection. The Sabbath is a type or symbol of Christ Himself and He is the fulfillment of it.

Have we ever read where Jesus said that the priests who stand in the temple - break the Sabbath which is in the Law?...or that David and his men ate of the bread which was in the temple?

Matthew 12:2-6 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] But when the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."

[SUP]3 [/SUP] But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he became hungry, he and his companions,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat nor for those with him, but for the priests alone?

[SUP]5 [/SUP] "Or have you not read in the Law, that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath and are innocent?

[SUP]6 [/SUP] "But I say to you that something greater than the temple is here.

Why were the priest not breaking the Sabbath law - because they were in the temple. Why did David be able to eat of the bread? Because he was in the temple.

This is why the true believer in Christ will not be breaking any Sabbath law because we are in the temple. Know you not that you are the temple of God?

Those that are in the temple are not breaking the Sabbath law by doing work on a certain day or "observing a certain day" because we are in Christ. He is the true temple of God as we are in union with Him and are one in the spirit.

Until we understand the reality of our union with Christ and what that means - we will be resorting to going back to the Law and trying to live by our own flesh and we are exchanging Christ Himself for the law of Moses.

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

Johnny_B said:

Jesus knew the law was about love, Thus it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Love does good. Notice Jesus says its Lawful that means he is making the point that its within the law to do good on the Sabbath. How does he know this when the Sabbath commandment does not say that? Because he knows the law is love and love will do good on the Sabbath. Jesus did not do away with the Sabbath but put love as the principle of the Sabbath as it was always meant to be.

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

Embankment said:

Indeed you are right, not sure why you wrote that unless you think I have not used context. I assure you I have taken that into account. In fact my point is very much based on context and in fact loses any power without proper context. blessings.

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

This is not completely accurate. The first point Jesus makes is that David did break the law as He clearly states it was unlawful to do. the second point is how the priest still work on the Sabbath. But take a close look and you will see that Jesus is using love as the interpreting principle. David and his men needed food how can love deny a basic human need? note not a want but a need. The priests ministered salvation every day including the Sabbath. could the Sabbath commandment be rooted in love as the bible says and then withhold salvation on that day? no of course not. So it is with the disciples, They labour for soles with Jesus and they need to eat thus love allows that which is needed.

while a pharisee sees breaking the law because they don't have love. Jesus knows that love is the abiding principle of the Sabbath and thus they were within the confines of the commandment to remember the Sabbath. The fact that Jesus taught what was lawful on the Sabbath is proof enough that he did not want it changed or done away with. But rather that it should be kept in the truest sense that it was given, in love for God and man.

Magenta · Apr 5, 2017

gotime said:

I said nothing against love, for love is the fulfillment of all the law and prophets. I wonder how you read that into anything I said? I was simply attesting to the fact that adhering to a Sabbath day for worship is nowhere mandated in the New Testament following the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Who is Himself our Sabbath rest. Did you not grasp what I said? I appears not. Do you understand that we do not work for our salvation? It is by faith, which is a gift from God. Do you understand how we rest from works of the law, to find our rest in Jesus Christ, Who fulfilled the law?

gotime · Apr 5, 2017

It is interesting because most Christians who are against the 7th day Sabbath actually interpret the Sabbath in the same way the Pharisees did. Which is weird because Jesus did not agree with their interpretation.

Love and law

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