I do understand that thank you and sorry if I misunderstood your point. But you have made an assumption when you say it is no where mandated. First is that it even has to be as if nothing carries over. This is not so as the teaching of Jesus and disciples are backed by the Old Testament. Second is that it is part of the very law that is constantly held up in the new testament. Just because its not separated and recommended means nothing. Love is the issue here and God for some reason puts remembering the 7th day to keep it holy as an improtant part of love.
Love and law
- Thread starter gotime
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Thanks gotime for bringing up a subject which is of most importance. Love gets ignored and distorted, as if it is a taboo subject, whether one is spiritually minded or not. As with many of the responses here, the focus is 3rd person to it at least, interesting love isn't even mentioned in their comments, like it is some kind of icky word. But it really is all about love, it is that simple. We humans like to complicate things, and in that, encounter our own complex problems.
Love is a state of mind, love is a perspective, love is the way, the truth and the life, and without it, you cannot see God, you cannot know God.
What point is ALL of your own developed intelligence, if you do not place LOVE, as the highest intelligence. And what/who is the highest intelligence? God of course. God is love. And if you do not love, the same way God loves you, then you are out of union with God. If you align yourself with love, you align yourself with God, and the commandments come through you 'naturally'. If you have love as a higher intelligence than your own, you don't look at the commandment like they are rules to follow and that makes you a good person and God loves you 'BETTER THAN THEM'. You get my point? This is how the ego which places itself as the highest intelligence views things, it compares itself. The commandments so to speak are a pointer to where you are in yourself.
I see God, I see love, I see Jesus, in various people, and they don't necessarily have to be Christian for me to say that. Maybe even a child hasn't become 'religious' yet, so then, why do people see more of these attributes in them, than they do in each other who have grown an adult belief system that is more important than the natural state of God that we were all born with, in God's image?
Judgement is the block to love. That is why, our enemies have something to teach us. If we cannot love our enemies, and therefore see them as friends (whether we keep them close or stay from them in peace), then don't we judge them as enemies, and therefore we are not align to God, or the holy spirit?
I work on my judgements every day, they are the greatest challenge right? All our experiences, our fears, our self-doubt, all of these are what creates an outer world of apparent enemies, danger, hostility.
However there are two types of judgement, carnal judgement, and spiritual judgement. If one lacks self-awareness, they will be stuck with carnal judgement, because they will lack empathy and the ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes. Empathy is something we were all born with too. And when we kill our soul, in different ways, mainly through sin, and that can even be self-pity, or seeing yourself as a victim (to an enemy that you do not love because you do not forgive) we start to lose our empathy. This is something I've observed in people as they get older, I've been observing it since I was a child.
To me, becoming an adult is part of a dysfunction of man, that takes people away from God. Our mind grows, it experiences, pain, suffering ESPECIALLY to do with love, someone we lost, someone who hurt us, someone who lied to us. But how do people cope with it? Do they turn to God and become more loving people, or do they build more walls and decide who is the enemy? And they may read the bible a hundred times, or be the best at quoting scripture, or they may always have a biblical answer to everything, but DO THEY HAVE A LOVING ANSWER?
I say that becoming an adult (is there some kind of transformation like caterpillar/butterfly? I don't think so), is part of the dysfunction of man, because this is exactly what Jesus was saying when he said 'only by becoming like this child can you enter the kingdom of heaven.' Yes only, by becoming like the child you were born, again, are you born again. Now there will be certain people who won't want to give a loving response to that. They developed a different coping strategy which was to follow the crowd, to follow the congregation, to put God on a pedestal, and Jesus on a pedestal. Why do people worship false idols, or become stuck in idolatry? Because getting stuck in idolatry gives them a purpose. Gods purpose however, is for us to be filled with love. That we be filled with love in a way that the commandments are natural to us, not like we had a though about breaking one but we were a good boy because we resisted doing it. The sin has already occurred in the mind.
Sin happens because of the absence of love. People hurt others because of a lack of love. People become monsters because of a lack of love. And how are we supposed to cure that? By being loving in the face of evil. Love is more powerful than evil, because God is love. Fear is not love, but it will come out in our judgements, and our judgements will come out wrapped around some self status of superiority, self-righteousness. You know those type of people right? They have an answer for everything, but not particularly a loving answer. They will say that being corrective is loving. No this is self-intelligent design, it's not God's design. And their perfect weapon? They will take your words and turn them against you, very self-intelligent design. When you observe this in people, you know this is one of them.
But I ask, which is more important to love God without loving others so much (self-importance, misguided as being selfless), or to love people as God loves you (selfless in the way others come first). Most importantly do you think God loves you, despite your flaws?
Love is a state of mind, love is a perspective, love is the way, the truth and the life, and without it, you cannot see God, you cannot know God.
What point is ALL of your own developed intelligence, if you do not place LOVE, as the highest intelligence. And what/who is the highest intelligence? God of course. God is love. And if you do not love, the same way God loves you, then you are out of union with God. If you align yourself with love, you align yourself with God, and the commandments come through you 'naturally'. If you have love as a higher intelligence than your own, you don't look at the commandment like they are rules to follow and that makes you a good person and God loves you 'BETTER THAN THEM'. You get my point? This is how the ego which places itself as the highest intelligence views things, it compares itself. The commandments so to speak are a pointer to where you are in yourself.
I see God, I see love, I see Jesus, in various people, and they don't necessarily have to be Christian for me to say that. Maybe even a child hasn't become 'religious' yet, so then, why do people see more of these attributes in them, than they do in each other who have grown an adult belief system that is more important than the natural state of God that we were all born with, in God's image?
Judgement is the block to love. That is why, our enemies have something to teach us. If we cannot love our enemies, and therefore see them as friends (whether we keep them close or stay from them in peace), then don't we judge them as enemies, and therefore we are not align to God, or the holy spirit?
I work on my judgements every day, they are the greatest challenge right? All our experiences, our fears, our self-doubt, all of these are what creates an outer world of apparent enemies, danger, hostility.
However there are two types of judgement, carnal judgement, and spiritual judgement. If one lacks self-awareness, they will be stuck with carnal judgement, because they will lack empathy and the ability to put themselves in someone else's shoes. Empathy is something we were all born with too. And when we kill our soul, in different ways, mainly through sin, and that can even be self-pity, or seeing yourself as a victim (to an enemy that you do not love because you do not forgive) we start to lose our empathy. This is something I've observed in people as they get older, I've been observing it since I was a child.
To me, becoming an adult is part of a dysfunction of man, that takes people away from God. Our mind grows, it experiences, pain, suffering ESPECIALLY to do with love, someone we lost, someone who hurt us, someone who lied to us. But how do people cope with it? Do they turn to God and become more loving people, or do they build more walls and decide who is the enemy? And they may read the bible a hundred times, or be the best at quoting scripture, or they may always have a biblical answer to everything, but DO THEY HAVE A LOVING ANSWER?
I say that becoming an adult (is there some kind of transformation like caterpillar/butterfly? I don't think so), is part of the dysfunction of man, because this is exactly what Jesus was saying when he said 'only by becoming like this child can you enter the kingdom of heaven.' Yes only, by becoming like the child you were born, again, are you born again. Now there will be certain people who won't want to give a loving response to that. They developed a different coping strategy which was to follow the crowd, to follow the congregation, to put God on a pedestal, and Jesus on a pedestal. Why do people worship false idols, or become stuck in idolatry? Because getting stuck in idolatry gives them a purpose. Gods purpose however, is for us to be filled with love. That we be filled with love in a way that the commandments are natural to us, not like we had a though about breaking one but we were a good boy because we resisted doing it. The sin has already occurred in the mind.
Sin happens because of the absence of love. People hurt others because of a lack of love. People become monsters because of a lack of love. And how are we supposed to cure that? By being loving in the face of evil. Love is more powerful than evil, because God is love. Fear is not love, but it will come out in our judgements, and our judgements will come out wrapped around some self status of superiority, self-righteousness. You know those type of people right? They have an answer for everything, but not particularly a loving answer. They will say that being corrective is loving. No this is self-intelligent design, it's not God's design. And their perfect weapon? They will take your words and turn them against you, very self-intelligent design. When you observe this in people, you know this is one of them.
But I ask, which is more important to love God without loving others so much (self-importance, misguided as being selfless), or to love people as God loves you (selfless in the way others come first). Most importantly do you think God loves you, despite your flaws?
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Good questions. For the first two I would say that while love for God is the greatest commandment as Jesus taught, they are inseparable, one can not love god and hate his brother not when one has this love as given by God. as it is written:
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
I don't think they can be separated. The love I am talking about is not a love that we can just decide to do, it is the love Paul describes in 1 corinth 13 a love that comes as a gift from God when we accept Jesus.
Rom_5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
This comes by faith:
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
It is the fruit of the Spirit:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
There is no law against this because it is the very basis of the law.
To the third question does God love us despite our flaws, I would suggest that Jesus proves that he does:
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
We were sinners when this love was displayed. The bible says that God is not loving but rather that He is love thus how can he do anything but love us?
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
however when Paul describes love in 1 cor he says this:
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long
The Greek means more than is said here in English. It means that love continues to love even when despised and rejected and treated wrongly.
Then there is this one:
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things
Again the Greek actually means to cover all things, to cover up our sins is the implication. that is what Jesus does for us. This love is Agape it is a love that only God has naturally and wants to give us in faith. So Yes God loves us despite our shortcomings.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
I don't think they can be separated. The love I am talking about is not a love that we can just decide to do, it is the love Paul describes in 1 corinth 13 a love that comes as a gift from God when we accept Jesus.
Rom_5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
This comes by faith:
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
It is the fruit of the Spirit:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
There is no law against this because it is the very basis of the law.
To the third question does God love us despite our flaws, I would suggest that Jesus proves that he does:
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
We were sinners when this love was displayed. The bible says that God is not loving but rather that He is love thus how can he do anything but love us?
1Jn 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1Jn 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
however when Paul describes love in 1 cor he says this:
1Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long
The Greek means more than is said here in English. It means that love continues to love even when despised and rejected and treated wrongly.
Then there is this one:
1Co 13:7 Beareth all things
Again the Greek actually means to cover all things, to cover up our sins is the implication. that is what Jesus does for us. This love is Agape it is a love that only God has naturally and wants to give us in faith. So Yes God loves us despite our shortcomings.
Yes Agape love, is a rare thing. But I have experienced it, that is why I've come to know how important this 'spiritual' type of love is, that is far greater than our human perspective of love. We have all experienced Agape love even for a fleeting moment, but we must remember those times and realise that this is our goal.
Love is a constant. It is always there, waiting for us to connect with it. You can call it love you can call it God, you can call it spirit. But it is always there, waiting for us (the 'me') to be still. Be still and know that I am God.
Love is a constant. It is always there, waiting for us to connect with it. You can call it love you can call it God, you can call it spirit. But it is always there, waiting for us (the 'me') to be still. Be still and know that I am God.
true but it must be examined with the right eyes and the right heart or else as i said we will be blind to the truth hidden within the truth. Love is so deeply intertwined with the law for without love the law is simply a set of ruled that can never be fully followed to even the most devout law keeper. love is far more than a feeling or an emotion it's a way of seeing a way of thinking a way of being it's the very core of of who God is and it's the main and most vital ingredient in the believer it's a supernatural steroid its the fire that burns in his eyes and it's the only thing that can bring us closer to God.
There is a reason that the pharisees knew the law studied exhaustively and taught the law yet knew nothing of God or of love, it's like trying to build a car knowing every tiny detail about down to the single wires inside it yet not having clue how drive it. It's one thing to know the law but without love it's futile to try to follow it
There is a reason that the pharisees knew the law studied exhaustively and taught the law yet knew nothing of God or of love, it's like trying to build a car knowing every tiny detail about down to the single wires inside it yet not having clue how drive it. It's one thing to know the law but without love it's futile to try to follow it
It is unconditional love.
And unconditional needs to be taken exactly as it is written.
Unconditional.
Absolutely no conditions.
Love without reason.
Love without choosing who deserves it.
Love as a singular.
Love even though your mind says 'no' and controls the flow of it, right?
Just think about what you are about to do, or what you are about to say, or the thoughts you are having, and ask yourself are they loving?
And unconditional needs to be taken exactly as it is written.
Unconditional.
Absolutely no conditions.
Love without reason.
Love without choosing who deserves it.
Love as a singular.
Love even though your mind says 'no' and controls the flow of it, right?
Just think about what you are about to do, or what you are about to say, or the thoughts you are having, and ask yourself are they loving?
No, I made no such assumption, I stated the fact that there is no exhortation to Christians regarding keeping the Sabbath following the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Who fulfilled the law and the prophets. The seventh day Sabbath rest of God was a shadow of the reality found in Christ, for we do not work for salvation, for it is predicated on faith, and faith is a gift from God. There are other Sabbaths in the older covenants, also, and they were all types and shadows of Christ. In Christ the type is done away. The new covenant Sabbath rest is in Christ Himself: we rest in His work on our behalf, for He poured out His righteous blood unto death on the cross due to His great love for us, paying the debt for sin, that we may be reconciled to the Father, and attain to life ever after.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect
of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect
of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:
thanx for your input, I will refrain from getting into a debate on whether the Sabbath is kept or not based on the points you have made. My point is more focused on the concept of agape love, the love of God and how it relates to the 10 commandments which include of course the Sabbath. Only then can it rightly be understood.
Honestly i don't understand the importance of the sabbath and keeping it well enough to even begin debating it but as for agape love that is a subject I can write an entire book about. I mean think about a kind of love that is so strongly infused inside of a believer that they would without hesitation be willing to burn in the fires of hell itself just so there may be a chance that even the most evil and vile of a person can come to know God and his love and be saved. I mean to be more than willing to go that far even if you never would have to is such a beautiful kind of love beyond imagination.
To go to such extreme of extreme lengths out of love for love and because of love...... that is the kind i seek and the only kind i will accept
To go to such extreme of extreme lengths out of love for love and because of love...... that is the kind i seek and the only kind i will accept
That love is the key amen. That is the point for me that makes the Sabbath and in fact all 10 of the commandments come alive. If one was to take the Sabbath and keep it simply because God said, well that to me is lacking. But the bible tells us that love is intrinsically connected and in fact is the very basis of the law. Not just now but it was so when it was given to Israel. So then to understand and appreciate the Sabbath one must see it through the lens of love. and this is not simply as a shadow because it was love that dictated it in the first place. Thus keeping the actual 7th day Sabbath actually has its foundation in love. For me when I saw that I had to keep it. When love becomes the foundation one only needs to know that God made it holy and it is naturally the desire of love to keep it that way. Love needs no command to do so. It only needs to know that the one they love has set it aside and love desires to keep it aside also. So for me Genesis 2 is more than enough for me to want to keep the 7th day above any other day Holy. Love is the key to all 10. One who loves does not need to be told not to kill. Only those who do not love need to be told killing is wrong. Thus the law of love was given to reveal to us that we all have fallen short of Gods love. And once we realise this it would be pure torture to leave us in that condition. Thus God gives us the greatest of all gifts, greater than all the spiritual gifts put together, Love that transforms the heart. This is the greatest gift. He that does not love does not know God because God is love but by the Spirit His love is shed abroad in our hearts and we come to know the love of God that passes knowledge. then we by nature keep the law because love can do no other. There is no law that is against the fruit of receiving the Spirit, for the fruit is that love of God that fulfils the law in every detail.
1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.